Canon 5D now official - LL review soon??

[drh681]

hmmm...

I think the 5D is a price point Killer. <4000$ for a full frame!?!?
nikon and minolta are tearing their collective hair out.

but as a gap filler, it is no 20D or 1DmkII in terms of frame rate.

It is what it is, a very good general use full frame DSLR at a very attractive price.


 

[Jonathan Wienke]

Well, let's see...

Someone speculated on 7/15/05 that: "the introduction of a model between the 1D-MkII and the 20D is highly unlikely."

The 5D seems to be that model.

Maybe that someone was just talking out of his rectum.

I love being quoted out of context. Try adding in the rest of what I said:

Such a camera is inconsistent with Canon's stated intentions regarding DSLR development and production, at least until the 1- series (1Ds and 1D mark whatever) is combined into a single high-speed, high resolution model. Until that happens, the introduction of a model between the 1D-MkII and the 20D is highly unlikely.

Note that what I was saying was that Canon wasn't likely to introduce a model between the 20D and the 1-series bodies until Canon's stated goal of merging the high resolution (1Ds) and high speed (1D) 1-series bodies into a single model had been accomplished. Given the introduction of the 1D-MkIIN, which is clearly nothing more than a minor update to the 1D-MkII, I'd say that the unification of the 1-series is not too far off and the next 1-series body will be both high resolution and high speed. So until the successor to the 1Ds-MkII is announced, accusations of rectum-speak are a bit premature.

By the way, the rumor I was referring to in my 7/15 post was about a "4D" that would have a 1.3X sensor and would be the same size as a 1D-MkII and be 12MP. One out of four isn't bad for a rumor, I suppose.

[Big Bird]

It is interesting the arguments presented for full frame sensors. A recent poster mentioned the "superior Image" of FF??
I am not a wide angle user, but from what I have read, Canon is putting the cart before the horse. What is the point of a high resolution FF sensor when they don't have a lens that can do it justice!
It sounds like we would be better off with the 10-22 and 1.6 x crop, so that the failures of our lenses wouldn't be so obvious.
I think the 5D is just a 20D replacement, more megapixels(which we expect), in a body with similiar AF and build(which we expect), but with the added feature of FF(which only a real benefit to a narrow range of photographers), at a price way higher than the 20D(which we don't expect).
Want to bet image quality is very similiar to what already is on the table?(nothing new in other words)
Maybe this is why the hoopla prior to release, to try and drum up excitement for the camera.(why not just a buy a used 1Ds??)

[Jonathan Wienke]

My original point (which Michael agreed with) is that passing on rumors isn't particularly productive given the fact that those who know what's really going on aren't talking (if they can't kee their mouths shut they are excluded from future advance information), and therefore those who disseminate the rumors generally don't have complete or accurate information. The rumor you passed on was no exception; while getting some things right, there are some significant discrepancies between the rumor and the actual camera. Specifically, the model number, sensor size, and where the new camera fits in Canon's DSLR lineup were incorrect. My original "talking out of their rectum" comment wasn't even directed at you, it was directed at people who start such rumors without knowing what they're talking about. Like your source.

Then when the 5D was introduced, some unfounded, snide, and uncouth comments were made re my original comment about the rumor (which Michael seconded, so if you want to attack me, you need to attack him also to be consistent). When I pointed out the inconsistencies between the full context of my statement and the snide comments directed my way, as well as the inconsistencies between the rumor and the actual camera, your response was to call me an "elitist douche bag". At no time did I ever direct any personal insults of that type your way; your choice to engage in that sort of ad hominem immature name-calling does not lend credibility to your claim to simply want an honest intellectual debate. I have on numerous occasions attacked the merits of ideas, but I do not engage in personal attacks against individuals. I have said that an idea or theory is stupid or has obvious flaws on numerous occasions, but I haven't called individual people stupid, not even you.

My definition of a civilized debate is discussing the subject without engaging in gratuitous personal attacks. What's yours?

[pcg]

Can't wait to get my hands on one! SO glad I didn't upgrade my 10 to a 20D a couple months ago...  

[pcg]

Wienke is condescending, patronizing, overly opinionated, and often (usually?) given to making outlandish statements. Other than that he's a great guy.

Wienke is actually trying to keep a decent, & thoughtful, dialogue going. Personal insults are always cowardly, & I'm amazed at the roundhouse attacks on this poor guy. For goodness sakes, he's got a right to babble on if he wishes w/o being cobbered.

Forums remain lively because we tolerate every opinion. Those of you who are so quick to dance fancy words around those whose opinions you dislike are bringing down the overall tenor of any discussion. Come on, surely you're aware of this effect?

Wasn't this conversation about the new Canon 5D? Ah, that's my memory...

[heavysigh]

To all,
    If my posts to Jonathan offended anyone other than Jonathan, then mea culpa. Mea maxima culpa, actually. Please check my initial thread on the possible new Canon and my subsequent posts on this thread to see that I was simply only trying to pass on information to fellow photographers. I did not expect this thing to snowball into the ugliness that it became. In my post of August 23rd, I stated as much and asked if could we please just get back to photography.

Also, in the interests of fairness, I would definitely say the things I said in person and up front. I've never had a problem speaking my mind when I disagree with someone or find that I'm being insulted.
    As for people staying away from the forums because of these kind of incidents, look no further than yours truly. I love to read about photography but the number of so-called experts who frequently contribute to many forums just leave me cold. You don't have to use name calling to still bully and belittle people and their ideas.
Having said that, I still believe this to be a wonderful place to exchange information and ideas about many aspects of photography. So, thanks to everyone for that.


If your name is not Jonathan, then please read no further.

To Jonathan,
     You obvioiusly see no fault in yourself regarding this or any of your previous posts. You may rationalize it and say we're just boors or not up to your intellectual capacity. I'm sure you can find some reason to keep from turning the mirror on yourself. But once again, we can't all be wrong, all the time. And the fact that so many of us respond to you this way speaks more about you and the way you come across than it does about us. Now let's see if you can take the high road and let someone else have the last word for a change.

[heavysigh]

[alanrew]

Michael,

Now that the news is out officially in various places, e.g.

http://www.dpreview.com/news/0508/05082209canoneos5d.asp

will you be publishing a review of this camera? It looks as if it will appeal to 20D (and other 1.6x crop factor) owners if the predicted price is accurate. I'll certainly be looking to upgrade my 10D.

I would be especially interested in your views about the ability of the full frame sensor to expose lens weaknesses that are concealed by a 1.6x crop factor sensor.

Regards

Alan

[Pete]

It looks like a fun camera--IF you need 13 mp and full-frame.

I'm real happy with my 20D--been using it for a year now and it's quite able for my needs --5fps for high school sports and a23 frame buffer.  With a 16x lexar card, I often can take over 30 images before the buffer runs out.

The 5D looks like a winner, if it has what you need.  Techno-lust is fun, but I got to laugh at some who keep asking "what should I do?"  "Should I wait for the next model?"  Those photographers should wait until the dslr's have beyond full-frame sensors that can capture a 30 mp image.

[Ben Rubinstein]

A lot of people noticed that picture, why the heck they used the 17-40L at 17mm (exif) for an example of picture quality on FF I'll never know.

[Tibor22]

The Borg Wienke has spoken... Resistance is Futile! All ass-talkers prepare to be assimilated!

Wienke slimes everyone with his gratuitous personal attacks and then denies that was his intent. People ask a question that doesn't require an opinion but he must provide one anyway. He loves to spew out his knowledge and wisdom like projectile vomit.

Wienke is an absolute expert on everything. Photoshopping images, Spanish documents, Canon's marketing plans, etc, etc. A modern-day Renaissance man. Newton, Gallileo, and Michalangelo all contained in one package.

Wienke is condescending, patronizing, overly opinionated, and often (usually?) given to making outlandish statements. Other than that he's a great guy.

(And I'm certain he'll correct any spelling or grammer mistakes I've made in this rant!)

I've only been here for a month, but that was more than enough time to find this out.

If posters here want to engage in a circle-jerk of speculation and rumour that is their business. Sometimes it's just fun and often there's actual information made available and shared as in the case of the "unlikely" Canon 5D. If you don't approve than Shut the F**k up.

Have a nice day!

[Jonathan Wienke]

Don't worry - everyone lese here knows who was wrong and can't admit it

Thankfully, there is at least one person participating in this thread who knows how express a dissenting opinion without resorting to ad hominem "elitist douche bag" comments. I salute you, sir, for your civility.

[jcarlin]

I am not a wide angle user, but from what I have read, Canon is putting the cart before the horse. What is the point of a high resolution FF sensor when they don't have a lens that can do it justice!

If you have access to the samples you will notice that 100mm macro picture is sharp all the way across.  The big knock on Canon lenses has only been with regard to the WA lenses not the rest of the line, particularly the telephotos that are the reason most sports photographers use Canon.

John

[MJohnQ]

I just joined today but the threads in this post are disturbing. Calling someone a Borg or stating that people are talking out of their rectums is just too much.

Many forums have policies to prevent this kind of thing. Flaming, derogatory comments, and personal attacks are simply not tolerated. Maybe this kind of policy should be used here. Ban the troublemakers for awhile and let them cool off.

Someone please end this post. Start a new one on the Canon 5D.

Now, let's get back to photography.

[mikeseb]

Expecting to learn useful things about digital cameras, instead I encounter elitist douchebags talking out [of] their rectums [recta for you second-declension neuter-noun afficionados]. It's enough to make you want to grant freedom of speech only to those who have taken the check-ride.

Can you guys really have that much time on your hands, or be that collectively witless?

I am put in mind of Mike's Rules for Living, which, if followed, will cover you in any social or business situation:

1. If it isn't yours, don't touch it without permission;

2. If you don't know, shut the f--- up;

3. Finish fights, but never start them.

All this over a camera? Sheesh.

Have a nice day, all.

[heavysigh]

well, duh.

My initial impressions report went online about the same time as your post.

As mentioned elsewhere on the forum, Canon usually provides review samples about 3-4 weeks before shipment, which in this case is scheduled for October.

Michael

[Tibor22]

Well, let's see...

Someone speculated on 7/15/05 that: "the introduction of a model between the 1D-MkII and the 20D is highly unlikely."

The 5D seems to be that model.

Maybe that someone was just talking out of his rectum.

[heavysigh]

Jonathan,
    Guess what? I love being quoted out of context, as well.

"By the way, the rumor I was referring to in my 7/15 post was about a "4D" that would have a 1.3X sensor and would be the same size as a 1D-MkII and be 12MP. One out of four isn't bad for a rumor, I suppose. "

Let's see what I originally said:

"The photographer told me that he was recently speaking to a "Canon R&D guy I know in Europe." The guy works for Canon and told him that Canon's new Autumn DSLR will be a 12 Megapixel camera called the D40. It will be the newest camera in the line of D30, D60, 10D and 20D.
The sensor will "more than likely be larger, along the lines of the 1D MII size." (This would make 12 Meg more feasible)
The photographer proceeded to tell me that Canon always comes out with a rebate on the current model just before they announce the new model. SOP for them. This is to help move a large amount of bodies since people hold off purchasing the current model if a new one is going to be available soon. (And there is $100 rebate on the 20D right now)"

I then went on to list Canon previous release dates to support my hypothesis of a August announcement.

So what did I get right?
1) August Announcement
2) 12 Meg
3) Autumn shipping
4) Camera will be in the line of the D60, 10D, 20D, etc.
5) Fuller frame (1/2 point I suppose)

What did I get wrong?
1) 5D is the name not 40D

You seem to be fixated on telling me and anyone else whom you disagree with that we're talking out of our rectums. Yet clearly you're the one who is anal retentive. So please lighten up, you elitist douche bag.

Hugs & Kisses,
Heavysigh.