InDesign color problems

[dchew]

I'm trying to create a "folio" using InDesign.  Images are exported from LR as tiffs w/ Prophoto profiles, then "placed" into InDesign, which I've set up with Prophoto as the working space.  No problem there. The first attached image is the page created from that process.  The problem comes in when that indesign page file is "placed" into a master indesign file for printing.  That file is also Prophoto working space.  Colors get very muted when I place the one indesign file into the other.  See second screen capture attached.  These screen captures show my color settings.  Also, I have set the "transparency blend space" to "Document RGB" in both indesign files.  Can anyone help me find what is wrong with my color settings?
MacBook Pro
Snow Leopard
CS5
LR 3
Printer: Epson 7900

Dave

[Czornyj]

I'm trying to create a "folio" using InDesign.  Images are exported from LR as tiffs w/ Prophoto profiles, then "placed" into InDesign, which I've set up with Prophoto as the working space.  No problem there. The first attached image is the page created from that process.  The problem comes in when that indesign page file is "placed" into a master indesign file for printing.  That file is also Prophoto working space.  Colors get very muted when I place the one indesign file into the other.  See second screen capture attached.  These screen captures show my color settings.  Also, I have set the "transparency blend space" to "Document RGB" in both indesign files.  Can anyone help me find what is wrong with my color settings?
MacBook Pro
Snow Leopard
CS5
LR 3
Printer: Epson 7900

Dave

Are you 100% sure that the master file is tagged properly? Try to assign ProPhoto with: Edit>Assign Profiles>Assign profile: ProPhoto

[dchew]

Are you 100% sure that the master file is tagged properly? Try to assign ProPhoto with: Edit>Assign Profiles>Assign profile: ProPhoto

Yes. I tried your suggestion anyway, and no change.  I then did the same thing with the single-page document I am trying to Place, resaved and Placed again.  Still no change.  Colors muted or "compressed" as if they are coming in untagged...?

Dave

[Chris_Brown]

I suggest using your final output profile (sheetfed CMYK, inkjet RGB, etc.) as your working space in InDesign. Also check the viewing preferences in InDesign. You may have it set to "Faster" instead of "Accurate".

[Doyle Yoder]

But does it print that way?

Doyle

[Chris_Brown]

I forgot to ask: Why are you embedding an InDesign document into another InDesign document?

[dchew]

I suggest using your final output profile (sheetfed CMYK, inkjet RGB, etc.) as your working space in InDesign. Also check the viewing preferences in InDesign. You may have it set to "Faster" instead of "Accurate".

I tried both of your suggestions and the colors now work fine.  I used my Canson custom profile.  I did them both at the same time so now I have to go back and see which change did it.  Thank you Chris!  Regarding why I am doing this: I have a template for a 2up or 4up print of each individual page, which is what I've referred to as the "master." That template has a graphic box to accept the "single-page" file that is created with the image and custom text.  That page is 8.5x11 with no borders.  It gets Placed into the master with pre-made crop marks, etc.  For the 2up it is on a 13x19 sheet that will get trimmed square after printing.  This is mimicking Brook's Jensen's workflow from his "Folio" workshop video.

But does it print that way?
Doyle

Very good question; I don't know! I'll check tonight with several different settings to see.  It looked so bad I didn't even bother to try.

Dave

[dchew]

I did a quick test with everything back to ProPhoto and Display Performance set back to "Typical."  Looked like crap again.  It was the Display setting.

Duh.  InDesign newbie.

Thank you.

Dave

[Chris_Brown]

Cool. Let us know how it looks in the final prints.

[dchew]

Well the prints look very good, although they are only about 6x9, so not much of a critical challenge.  Color is spot-on.

One problem I had was printing through InDesign: I am not familiar with the print dialog, so I gave up, exported a pdf and printed from there.  Can someone direct me to a resource, either on-line or a book that goes through color-managed printing through InDesign?  There are a lot of strange (to me) selections in there.  And when printing B&W, can I use Advanced B&W mode in the Epson driver? I think the only option I had in the Indesign dialog was "InDesign Manages Colors."

Thank you all for your help.  Success, although I cheated through Acrobat!

Dave

[Chris_Brown]

I've crossed that bridge many times and have done the same thing you did. Except I ripped the PDF document in Photoshop and printed from there.

The link in the chain that's easy to break is the color space. Keep it consistent throughout the workflow and you'll get accurate results.

In this scenario, the two methods are:

• In Photoshop, convert all color spaces of the original images to that of your printer. In InDesign, make that color space your working space. Upon exporting, don't convert any colors. When ripped in PS, no color conversion is necessary for printing.
• In PS, don't convert any color spaces. Keep it as ProPhoto (or what ever you use). Use the same color space in InDesign. Don't convert any colors when exporting to PDF. Open the PDF in PS and it'll be tagged with your working space. When ripping to the printer, convert the colors.

When sending PDF documents (sales sheets, brochures, catalogs, etc.) to offset printers, I use the first method. When printing posters on my wide format inkjet printer, I use the latter method.

When exporting to a PDF file to be ripped in PS, turn off all compression, include all fonts, don't convert any color spaces and it gives you a file that's perfect for ripping in Photoshop.

[nkpoulsen]

In printing through InDesign, is it yet possible to use black point compensation? 

I'm pretty naive with InDesign; I was not able to do this in a document I printed through InDesign CS4.

Is there some way to achieve effect black point compensation to an image file and then import that file to InDesign?