Phase one p65+ or Leaf 12 80mb

[yaya]

FWIW after more than 10 years working with Leaf backs all over the world and looking at our service statistics I can say that fan failure rate is virtually zero.
The backs are made in a country where dust, wind, sand and salt are the four basic weather elements...in the summer temps go to 40c easily with >80% humidity near the coast.

In solid, continous rain I would recommend a cover of some sort over your camera, although on this board (and others) I have yet to see a photograph that was taken in the rain...

Yair

[ternst]

I would have to agree with Yair about the fan issue - from the research I've done talking with Leaf users there seems to be basically zero complaints - it is not blowing dust onto the sensor after all, nor getting inside the memory card, it is merely passing the air through a space for cooling. The only issue with the fan that I see is the fact that you can hear it blowing 100% of the time - contrary to reports on the old Luminous Landscape site and other places. Perhaps I hear better than others, but I do have to wonder what else other sounds folks are missing out in the wilderness if they can't hear that fan, ha!

I agree with John - the rotating sensor is a huge deal and no one has anything like it - seems like a user designed this feature, or perhaps were just looking ahead to the rapidly-expanding use of these on tech/view cameras.

I never used the older Leaf backs but the current model is just SO much easier to see and use than all Phase screens - certainly Phase will finally fix this with their new P-80 back? With the Phase screen always being so bad it really is only good for histo and blinkies, yet with the Leaf screen I actually spend time looking at the image, and setting the gray balance. I do have to cup my hand over the screen in bright daylight to see really well (although I rarely shoot in bright daylight - I much prefer sweet light) - never had to do that much with the Phase screen because there was just nothing worthwhile to look at. I will say that I didn't have too many complaints about the Phase screen - since it could only be used for histo and blinkies - until I used a Leaf. Big difference for me.

As for exposure times, even the two minutes that you can sometimes get with the Phase P-60 would be a lot better than the 30-second limit on Leaf. I have published hour-long images from the original P-45 and P-45+, although they were quite noisy and required a little bit of work. Since I can now do 8-12 clean hours of exposure with a Nikon I don't bother with MFB for those long nighttime shots any more.

I have used the D-60 and still find the look of the Leaf files for my landscape work (which is all that I do) more to my taste - something you can't really put a finger on, but that is certainly good enough for me.

And one other huge plus for Leaf backs for tech and view cameras - you can add the focal length to the metadata while shooting - holy cow, what a difference this makes to my workflow! (obviously not an issue for SLR users) I'm not a note-taker so that route won't work for me.

[Gigi]

Can only compare the P20 and a recent Leaf AFI II 7. Its rather odd to compare earliest generation and later ones, but maybe just focus on ergonomics?

The Phase back is of course a tighter unit, sealed up. That said, the fan of the Leaf is pretty minor. I thought I'd mind it, but its just a reminder the back is on. On paper, I might even choose something else, but in reality, its no biggie. Leaf indicates that for service the back innards with sensor can be removed from the outer casing (by them) and this makes turn around easier as they can service less critical items here in the US. I like that idea.

I never got used to the buttons on the P20 back. While they make sense and should work, I found myself stumbling with them (missing the sequence, forgetting, having to think) and really enjoy the Leaf interface. Yes, I make the same bumbling mistakes, but recovery just seems faster, easier.

Two features of the Leaf that are desirable: the rotating sensor is very good. No problems, and the back never has to come off the camera (less dust issues). The P20 didn't have to come off easier (square sensor, early type) but if it had a rectangular proportion, it would have had to. For those who switch horiz/vert, don't overlook this.

Also, the tilt screen with the Leaf is nice - you don't have to get behind the back or tilt the camera (not so easy on a tripod). Not a feature needed all the time, but when needed, it is quite useful. And the screen is big enough you can really check focus at 1:1.

The interface with the Leaf is more sophisticated. More control, clearly organized. Use your paws, or the stylus. Lots of features, but not overwhelming. In short, its kind of fun to use. The P20 was workable, but seemed a bit more effort to remember which way to go, and when. In theory, the vote goes to the Phase approach, but in using it, I was always pushing one too many buttons.

If they were both available at the same price with the same resolution, the Leaf would get the nod for the rotating sensor and user interface and big screen. If Phase addressed that, then its back to a horserace.

[UlfKrentz]

snip

...In solid, continous rain I would recommend a cover of some sort over your camera, although on this board (and others) I have yet to see a photograph that was taken in the rain...

Yair

Hi Yair, how about this one? http://www.shoots.de/FeelGood.279.0.html

@issa: We have been working with leaf backs for more than 6 years now and we never experienced any problems with the vents. In fact I think it´s the only piece of equipment that never ever gave us any trouble. I prefer the IQ/Color produced by the DALSA/Leaf combination and would always go with the Aptus again. You might also consider the Aptus 10 which might also give the desired resolution.

Cheers, Ulf

[yaya]

Hi Yair, how about this one? http://www.shoots.de/FeelGood.279.0.html

See? There's always a first:-) Nice!!!

Cheers from Munich
yair

[hubell]

I don't think the issue is whether the fan itself fails. Does the fan suck in air with with a salt laden moisture content or fine, talcum powder like sand that can work its way into any area of the camera/back where there are electronic or mechanical components?

[gazwas]

I don't think the issue is whether the fan itself fails. Does the fan suck in air with with a salt laden moisture content or fine, talcum powder like sand that can work its way into any area of the camera/back where there are electronic or mechanical components?

I think your reading way too much into this. If the environment was such as above then the simple firing of the shutter activating the internal mirror movement would cause a suction and blowing action bringing this hyperthetical "salt laden moisture content or fine, talcum powder like sand" into the lens/camera workings. In this environment I'd be worrying more about camera failure before the back gave up.