Print Outgassing and Drying?

[BikerJim]

Hey all, BikerJim here,
     I'm have a few questions that are a little urgent. I have a show coming up in 2 weeks and I'm printing now for it, better late than never! Anyway, I'm printing with pigmented ink on Hahn.PhotoRagBaryta. I bought acid free Strathmore paper for speeding up the outgassing of the prints. Does this process also speed up the print drying? Or should I do them, drying and outgassing, as separate operations. I would like to think that both can be accomplished simultaneously, or should print drying take place for 12 to 24 hours before the using the Strathmore paper for outgassing? Also, can I use interleaving, stacking, a print, then paper, then print, then paper, etc. to save desk space? Some of my work will be mounted and matted in polypropylene bags, some mounted and matted in frames without glass (because of bad lighting w/ too much glare).
    Any advise or suggestions in this area will be "greatly" appreciated. In full discloser, I posted these questions to another forum and received one response. I was told to roll my prints and stand them on end. This answer is a little on the "what the heck" side of things

If I've not made myself clear please let me know, ok?
Thanks in advance, Jim

[Alan Goldhammer]

Hey all, BikerJim here,
     I'm have a few questions that are a little urgent. I have a show coming up in 2 weeks and I'm printing now for it, better late than never! Anyway, I'm printing with pigmented ink on Hahn.PhotoRagBaryta. I bought acid free Strathmore paper for speeding up the outgassing of the prints. Does this process also speed up the print drying? Or should I do them, drying and outgassing, as separate operations. I would like to think that both can be accomplished simultaneously, or should print drying take place for 12 to 24 hours before the using the Strathmore paper for outgassing? Also, can I use interleaving, stacking, a print, then paper, then print, then paper, etc. to save desk space? Some of my work will be mounted and matted in polypropylene bags, some mounted and matted in frames without glass (because of bad lighting w/ too much glare).
    Any advise or suggestions in this area will be "greatly" appreciated. In full discloser, I posted these questions to another forum and received one response. I was told to roll my prints and stand them on end. This answer is a little on the "what the heck" side of things

If I've not made myself clear please let me know, ok?
Thanks in advance, Jim

This was just recently discussed here:  http://www.luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?topic=47191.0  Prints will dry much faster than completion of the outgassing process.  I haven't used this paper but similar papers dry almost instantly.  If you are mounting and framing without glass or plexi outgassing is a non issue.  It's only relevant if the print is in a sealed environment and the residual organics have no place to go other than the frame covering.  I've just done a fairly large print job for holiday mart and the matted prints have gone in polypropylene bags.  I stack my prints between paper as you describe and do the mounting a day or so later.  I've observed no outgassing onto the inside of the envelope.

Alan

[BikerJim]

Hey Alan,
    Thanks for your reply and the link to a previous thread. And thanks for not adding "Do a search next time you dumb-a**!" 
    That thread you sent me to was great, but got very technical very fast. I'm proud of myself that I read the entire thread and actually absorbed some of it, kind of like a sheet of paper laid over a fresh print
    Here is what I propose to do with my Hahn.PhotoRagBaryta prints using an HP B9180 printer (archival inks). As soon as I print an image I will do a "little" hairdryer action. Am I assuming that baryta paper dries relatively fast, as I live in Arizona w/ 20% humidity and the house temp is 25C (77F). Then cover the print for 24 hours with acid-free paper (?maybe with interleaving other prints?). Then use another fresh acid-free paper and cover and interleave for an additional 24 hours. Then mount w/ foamcore and matte w/ ragboard, using the hinge method. All will be put into poly-bags or framed without glass.
    Do you think I "basically" have gotten all my ducks in a row?

Thanks a lot, Jim 

[Alan Goldhammer]

Hey Alan,
    Thanks for your reply and the link to a previous thread. And thanks for not adding "Do a search next time you dumb-a**!" 
    That thread you sent me to was great, but got very technical very fast. I'm proud of myself that I read the entire thread and actually absorbed some of it, kind of like a sheet of paper laid over a fresh print
    Here is what I propose to do with my Hahn.PhotoRagBaryta prints using an HP B9180 printer (archival inks). As soon as I print an image I will do a "little" hairdryer action. Am I assuming that baryta paper dries relatively fast, as I live in Arizona w/ 20% humidity and the house temp is 25C (77F). Then cover the print for 24 hours with acid-free paper (?maybe with interleaving other prints?). Then use another fresh acid-free paper and cover and interleave for an additional 24 hours. Then mount w/ foamcore and matte w/ ragboard, using the hinge method. All will be put into poly-bags or framed without glass.
    Do you think I "basically" have gotten all my ducks in a row?

Thanks a lot, Jim 

Jim, I don't think you need to use a hair dryer.  If anything that only risks blowing dust around and I wouldn't want to have any land on a print if it were not 100% dry.  Simply put a sheet of paper over it and you can stack subsequent prints on top of it.  As I noted two days will be more than sufficient.  You don't need to change the paper.

Alan

[Waltere]

I posted this on the "outgassing link" and now here!

Ok, I got my 3880 two weeks ago, printed 20 13 X 19's last week, and just finished framing them! I printed on Moab Entrada Bright 300, and let them "dry" for 2 days, then interleaved them with 2-ply rag for 3 days...I am hanging them on Thursday, so I will be keeping an eye on the outgassing issue!
What is the dry-mounting procedure for pigment prints, what tissue & temperature & time? I still have a stock of MT-5 that I use for my darkroom prints & and I use it around 220 degrees...also, is a sheet of 2-ply okay between the pigment print and the press?

Waltere

[davidh202]

 2ply AF board should be fine though I have always used silicon treated boards
220 F is WAY too hot for mounting, you should be in the 160 to 190 range with a dwell time of about 2minutes.   
I use 220 for lamination films to melt and seal the perfs

[Waltere]

Ok, so this tissue is the recommended: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/337407-REG/Dry_Lam_E0811_1_Colortac_Dry_Mounting_Tissue.html
I'm really new to digital printing. Is that the same as the old Seal-release paper?
Thanks.

[Waltere]

I read further on B&H's site and find this(discontinued): http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/591441-REG/Seal_Bienfang_SEA443_Ragmount_Dry_Mounting_Tissue.html
Was there a problem that anyone knows of? Also, if I have outgassing issues with framed prints, can I simply un-assemble the frame and clean the glass and put it back together? Is that the whole issue, the outgassed
"film" on the inside of the glass? Or, as I may suspect, is the print life negatively affected?

[BikerJim]

I posted this on the "outgassing link" and now here!

Ok, I got my 3880 two weeks ago, printed 20 13 X 19's last week, and just finished framing them! I printed on Moab Entrada Bright 300, and let them "dry" for 2 days, then interleaved them with 2-ply rag for 3 days...I am hanging them on Thursday, so I will be keeping an eye on the outgassing issue!
What is the dry-mounting procedure for pigment prints, what tissue & temperature & time? I still have a stock of MT-5 that I use for my darkroom prints & and I use it around 220 degrees...also, is a sheet of 2-ply okay between the pigment print and the press?

Waltere

Hello Waltere,
     The first part of your reply did concern outgassing, but the second part should have its own thread, I think this maybe kind of highjacking my thread. Please forgive me if you think I'm being rude. But I do believe it is bad form to take someone topic and redirect it to you own, as in dry mounting procedures! Please start you own threads, ok?

While I was typing this, you posted again, some of which deals with outgassing. I'm just going to post this anyway

Thanks for your understanding, Jim

[Waltere]

Sorry, Jim, you are right! Just trying to get too many ? answered, I guess!

[BikerJim]

Thanks Waltere,
If I was really, really right, as you mentioned, I should have started a new thread for this.
I feel like I'm kind of highjacking my own thread

Have a good evening my friend, BikerJim

[Waltere]

It's all cool, Jim. In the same boat-show going up Thursday!

Cheers & good luck with yours!

Waltere

[Gene Coggins]

Jim:

It is never a good idea to mount a matted image in a frame without any glazing. In time the mats will bow outward. Glazing prevent this from happening.

Gene

[Alan Goldhammer]

A couple of things based on what was recently posted.  For 13x19 prints you don't need to dry mount if you are using an overmat so that only the image is showing.  You can simply use Mylar or polypropylene photo corners (see:  http://www.framedestination.com/picture_frame_mounting.html for choices on mounting).  I mount prints on 3/8 inch archival foamboard with a 4 ply over mat.  I've framed probably over 70 13x19 prints this way (image size is 12x18) and the prints have stayed flat (several of them hanging in my old office have been up for over a year).  Dry mounting needs to be done at a lower temperature for glossy ink jet papers as noted.  For matte papers, I'm not sure as I've seen no information on whether these papers can tolerate a higher temperature without image degradation.

The deposit that you see from outgassing is from residual glycerol and some other volatile organics that have not fully left the paper prior to framing.  You can remove the cover glass or plexi and wash it in mildly soapy water to get rid of the film.  The print should not be adversely effected by outgassing since the chemicals are part of the paper and there will always be residuals left in the paper (you can't defeat the laws of mother nature ).  Outgassing will be more prominent if the print is hung where it gets direct sunlight causing an increase in surface temperature.  Such exposure will contribute to image degradation (but it's not a function of the outgassing) because of temperature and light exposure extremes.

Hope this helps.

[BikerJim]

Jim:

It is never a good idea to mount a matted image in a frame without any glazing. In time the mats will bow outward. Glazing prevent this from happening.

Gene

Hey Gene,
     Thanks for your advise, I never considered this negative consequence of not using glass/glazing. But these images will only be un-glassed, but framed, for this upcoming show.The lights in this venue are notoriously harsh and positioned badly. The light reflections on the glass block the image. When someone buys a piece I reinstall the glass for them. I also pray that nobodies fingers touch the image, but on this baryta paper I can gently wipe off any fingerprints. I wish I could afford a better grade of glazing, someday I hope
     I am wondering though, how much bowing or warping would happen as a result of no glass in a mid-long term hanging. The prints are 11x14 in 16x20 frames. I use 3/8 foam-core backing and 4-ply rag-board matte, with hinge mounting of the print and the foam-core/matte are also hinged, with a small amount of adhesive in the bottom corners of the matte and foam-core. What do you think, Gene or anyone?

Thanks again, Jim

[Alan Goldhammer]

Hey Gene,
     Thanks for your advise, I never considered this negative consequence of not using glass/glazing. But these images will only be un-glassed, but framed, for this upcoming show.The lights in this venue are notoriously harsh and positioned badly. The light reflections on the glass block the image. When someone buys a piece I reinstall the glass for them. I also pray that nobodies fingers touch the image, but on this baryta paper I can gently wipe off any fingerprints. I wish I could afford a better grade of glazing, someday I hope
     I am wondering though, how much bowing or warping would happen as a result of no glass in a mid-long term hanging. The prints are 11x14 in 16x20 frames. I use 3/8 foam-core backing and 4-ply rag-board matte, with hinge mounting of the print and the foam-core/matte are also hinged, with a small amount of adhesive in the bottom corners of the matte and foam-core. What do you think, Gene or anyone?

Thanks again, Jim

The big contributor to bowing is the strength (or lack thereof) of the mount board.  3/8 inch foamboard for the size of prints you mention is adequate stability (coupled with the overmat).

Alan

[Waltere]

Ok, I will be "pushing" the outgassing issue a bit. I reprinted one Monday night, sandwiched it under 2-ply rag 24 hours later for 24 hrs, and today it's been in the open air. I will frame it tonight. BTW, I have been using
Abaca. sa, self-adhesive tape from PrintFile for the hinging.

Waltere

[Alan Goldhammer]

Ok, I will be "pushing" the outgassing issue a bit. I reprinted one Monday night, sandwiched it under 2-ply rag 24 hours later for 24 hrs, and today it's been in the open air. I will frame it tonight. BTW, I have been using
Abaca. sa, self-adhesive tape from PrintFile for the hinging.

Waltere

Moab Entrada is a matte paper, correct (I don't use it and just looked at their website)?  Outgassing is seldom an issue with matte papers as far as I can tell.  Ink and the carrier solvents are readily absorbed and it's quite different from the glossy papers with their coating that seems to be the major offender here.  I would be surprised if you see any outgassing given what you mention above (which to me seems to be overkill).  Anyway let us know the result.

Alan

[Waltere]

Yes, it's matte, Alan. Thanks for that information! And, I will let you know.

Thanks.

Waltere

[Gene Coggins]

Hey Gene,
     Thanks for your advise, I never considered this negative consequence of not using glass/glazing. But these images will only be un-glassed, but framed, for this upcoming show.The lights in this venue are notoriously harsh and positioned badly. The light reflections on the glass block the image. When someone buys a piece I reinstall the glass for them. I also pray that nobodies fingers touch the image, but on this baryta paper I can gently wipe off any fingerprints. I wish I could afford a better grade of glazing, someday I hope
     I am wondering though, how much bowing or warping would happen as a result of no glass in a mid-long term hanging. The prints are 11x14 in 16x20 frames. I use 3/8 foam-core backing and 4-ply rag-board matte, with hinge mounting of the print and the foam-core/matte are also hinged, with a small amount of adhesive in the bottom corners of the matte and foam-core. What do you think, Gene or anyone?

Thanks again, Jim

Jim:

I don't know how much bowing will occur. But it is safe to say that for this short period of time, you have nothing to worry about except if someone with sticky fingers touches the image. If you were to display the image for more than three months, then I would be concerned no matter how thick the foam-core backing.

While I have never framed a matted image without glass, I have been warned about this from more than one professional framer.
Gene