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Author Topic: Nikon D3s filel up-rezed to D3x's resolution  (Read 4755 times)

jvora

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Nikon D3s filel up-rezed to D3x's resolution
« on: November 03, 2010, 07:19:34 am »

Hello :


Wondering if any one has performed the following test :

1. Shoot an image with the Nikon D3s set to produce a raw/net file at base iso using a high quality lens.

2. Using the same lens as above, shoot the same scene, but this time with a Nikon D3x also at it's base iso to outputs a raw/net file.

3. Up-rez the D3s file to "equal" it's resolution to that of the D3x.


I wonder how well or otherwise the up-rezed D3s file compares to that of the D3x ?

If you have such samples or know of existing images on the net, do provide this info


Thanks,

Jai
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jvora

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Re: Nikon D3s filel up-rezed to D3x's resolution
« Reply #1 on: November 03, 2010, 09:38:09 am »

Hello :

To answer "What question do you have that you believe would be answered by this test?"

I have no access to either of the cameras, sadly - Not even stores in the city/country keep these cameas on hand for test shots - So its a question I had to ask on the net.

The D3x's resolution is about 40% greater than that of the D3s area wise. Noting this, I wanted to get a feel for the IQ difference between the up-rezed and native files from the D3s and D3x respectively.

I am in the market for a new camera - I need the low light capture capabilities of the D3s, but also need higher rez for base iso captures. If one can obtain good ( I know this is subjective ) results employing "proper" up-rezing techniques, I may then have one camera that can do both.

I do know that the IQ of the D3x will be better than the up-rezed D3s file, but its the difference that I wanted to get a feel for.

Thus the question.

Any samples out there ??


Jai 
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francois

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Re: Nikon D3s filel up-rezed to D3x's resolution
« Reply #2 on: November 03, 2010, 10:02:42 am »

Not sure if the samples on Imaging Resource can help you?

http://www.imaging-resource.com/MFR1.HTM?view=Nikon_reviews
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Francois

hjulenissen

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Re: Nikon D3s filel up-rezed to D3x's resolution
« Reply #3 on: November 03, 2010, 10:06:21 am »

If you want to see the effect of bumping real resolution on 1 meter by 1 meter prints, I think you ideally should make those prints.

If you want to see the effect of increasing resolution by 40% on a cropped 1:1 on your display, does it have to be the D3 series and not any other similar resolution increase?

My guess is that "it depends". If you can find a scaling algorithm that fits well with the scene, lense and camera characteristics, differences are going to be small (given that both cams produce very high resolution). If scene, lense and camera fit less well with the scaling algorithm, differences can be somewhat less small... :-)

-h
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ErikKaffehr

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Re: Nikon D3s filel up-rezed to D3x's resolution
« Reply #4 on: November 03, 2010, 10:41:07 am »

Hi,

I'd suggest that Diglloyd has done that experiment.

http://www.diglloyd.com/dap/index.html

Unfortunately a pay site. I made some similar experiment with Sony Alpha 700 and Sony Alpha 900. I would suggest that the difference is significant. But, you need good technique to take advantage.

Best regards
Erik
Hello :


Wondering if any one has performed the following test :

1. Shoot an image with the Nikon D3s set to produce a raw/net file at base iso using a high quality lens.

2. Using the same lens as above, shoot the same scene, but this time with a Nikon D3x also at it's base iso to outputs a raw/net file.

3. Up-rez the D3s file to "equal" it's resolution to that of the D3x.


I wonder how well or otherwise the up-rezed D3s file compares to that of the D3x ?

If you have such samples or know of existing images on the net, do provide this info


Thanks,

Jai
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Erik Kaffehr
 

langier

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Re: Nikon D3s filel up-rezed to D3x's resolution
« Reply #5 on: November 03, 2010, 09:34:49 pm »

I've been running large prints from the days of the D100/D2H, up to 24x36 on those and even larger with the D2x, D200, D300 and D700, up to 30x45 and larger prints I produce myself for my clients. Not is sophisticated to know the difference on any of the prints. When I show a 24x36 inch print made from a jpeg file from the diminutive 4 mp full-rez of the D2H, people are astonished since the math says that the maximum print size capable from that camera is barely 6x9 inches...

That said, if you look at a native file blown-up to any of these print sizes on the monitor, you'll tell the difference. But on paper at a proper viewing distance the issue is mum.

Basically, you can emulate this experiment within reason by comparing a D700 and a D300 using the same lens on both and then cropping the D700 image to the same field of view of the D300. It isn't perfect but it will give you a pretty good idea.

If you are simply doing prints up to 11x17, for instance, I don't think you'd see any difference even closely. Larger prints you may if you are super critical.

For image samples, check the Nikon site for sample images. In past announcements, they seem to post a few images with each new camera. Another place to look is at Nikonlinks.com. You may get lucky and someone has side-by-side images.

In my opinion, the files from the D700 are fantastic though the D300 are not too bad ether. Under marginal lighting and less-than-perfect conditions, the IQ edge goes to the D700 simply because of the larger photosites on the sensor. I don't hesitate to run the camera regularly at ISO 400, 800 or 1600 or even push the chip up to 6400 and 25,600. With the new noise reduction in Adobe Camera Raw and upresing from the raw file, it's hard to beat the Image Quality, I've found. It's opened a whole new world for me!

At lower ISO ratings, you may be better with the D3x. If you are shooting under marginal conditions regularly or need 720p video, go with the D3s and upres as needed. Depending upon the final use, IMO, you should be fine.
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jasonrandolph

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Re: Nikon D3s filel up-rezed to D3x's resolution
« Reply #6 on: November 05, 2010, 05:26:49 pm »

An alternative approach would be to stitch, which modern software makes it easy to do.  Thom Hogan writes about this a lot, essentially taking a moderate-resolution camera like a D200 and making huge image files of multiple exposures.  Here's one article:

http://www.bythom.com/hireztoday.htm

If you follow this train of thought, the savings from buying a D3S will buy you a PC lens.  Nice little bonus IMHO...

HCHeyerdahl

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Re: Nikon D3s filel up-rezed to D3x's resolution
« Reply #7 on: November 08, 2010, 01:25:54 pm »

You might find the reviews of D3x and D3s on bythom.com interesting.

http://www.bythom.com/nikond3xreview.htm
http://www.bythom.com/nikond3sreview.htm


Chr
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ErikKaffehr

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Re: Nikon D3s filel up-rezed to D3x's resolution
« Reply #8 on: November 11, 2010, 11:41:03 pm »

Hi!

A very good discussion indeed. I would recommend the D3X article as it really puts things into perspective.

Canon and Sony buyers are fortunate to have high res cameras at third to half of the price point of the Nikon D3X.

Thomas Hogan also can admit (now and than) that having 24 MP can be an advantage for landscape photographers.

My view is that having more pixels is almost always an advantage, but it takes very careful work to fully utilize all those pixels.

Best regards
Erik


You might find the reviews of D3x and D3s on bythom.com interesting.

http://www.bythom.com/nikond3xreview.htm
http://www.bythom.com/nikond3sreview.htm


Chr
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Erik Kaffehr
 

Ray

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Re: Nikon D3s filel up-rezed to D3x's resolution
« Reply #9 on: November 15, 2010, 01:36:50 am »

The potentially higher resolution of the sensor with the greater pixel count is rarely apparent on any print from a normal viewing distance, that is, a viewing distance about double the diagonal of the print.

We know from Michael's comparison of two A3+ size prints of the same scene, one taken with the Canon G10 and the other with the Phase P45+, that they were indistinguishable, apart from a 'give away' shallower DoF in the print from the P45+.

If the prints had been larger, there's no doubt that the superior qualities of the P45+ would have been apparent, but not necessarily from an appropriatley further distance.

What might be an interesting exercise would be to uprez a D3s shot taken at ISO 3200 or ISO 6400 to the D3X resolution at the same ISO. At those ISOs the D3s should be better in respect of all the qualities that DXO measure, such as SNR, DR, tonal range, color sensitivity. To what extent would the D3X superior resolution be compromised in this situation?
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ErikKaffehr

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Re: Nikon D3s filel up-rezed to D3x's resolution
« Reply #10 on: November 15, 2010, 02:16:56 am »

Ray,

There is much to your statement. I have a 70x100 cm print hanging on my wall taken with a 10 MP DSLR, it is reasonably sharp at a decent viewing distance, around one meter or so.

On the other hand, I have a pano merged from perhaps 9 shots using the same camera. That pan is printed at 50x100 cm and incredibly sharp.I sometimes walki up to the picture and enjoy looking at the detail. Seeing it at distance it is fine, but looking from near it is like being there!

So I would generally agree on your view on viewing distance vs. resolution, but I would say that resolution is a quality of it's own.

I also made som comparisons between prints from 12.5 MP and 24.5MP in A2-format, and they were less conclusive than what I expected.
Best regards
Erik


The potentially higher resolution of the sensor with the greater pixel count is rarely apparent on any print from a normal viewing distance, that is, a viewing distance about double the diagonal of the print.

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Erik Kaffehr
 
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