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Author Topic: comparisions between 16-35f4VR and 14-24  (Read 4481 times)

Rick_Allen

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comparisions between 16-35f4VR and 14-24
« on: November 03, 2010, 04:10:17 am »

Hey Guys

Trying to decide between these two wides. Thought I was going for the 14-24 but have heard that the new 16-35 is the new sharpness king. I'm shooting landscape on both the D7000 and D3x and love the idea of being able to use ND filters on the 16-35.

Cheers
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Rick Allen
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langier

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Re: comparisions between 16-35f4VR and 14-24
« Reply #1 on: November 03, 2010, 09:37:29 pm »

If you are doing landscapes and need to use a filter (read: polarizer), then it's a no-brainer. Go with the 16-35 and put the $$ you save into going out and shooting!

The 16-35 is lighter but a stop slower. At the end of the day packing that glass, your joints will thank you!
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Larry Angier
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jasonrandolph

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Re: comparisions between 16-35f4VR and 14-24
« Reply #2 on: November 05, 2010, 05:15:25 pm »

While the 16-35mm is indeed a stop slower, IMHO the VR will more than make up for that, unless you need really narrow DOF.  Also, the difference between 14mm and 16mm probably isn't enough to make a difference, you can (almost) always take a couple steps back if you need more in the shot.  But like you said, the ability to use 77mm filters is a big plus.  That's why it's at the top of my lens-buying list (which never seems to shrink when I buy new glass).   ;D

Dustbak

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Re: comparisions between 16-35f4VR and 14-24
« Reply #3 on: November 06, 2010, 04:03:55 am »

I have both but have never made any direct comparison between the 2. I do take the 16-35 out much more often, actually the 14-24 has remained in the closed since I got the 16-35. This to me means it can replace the 14-24 at least in my case.

Things I did notice was that the color rendition and the contrast of the 16-35 is different than that of the 14-24. Images from the 16-35 seem to be a little more muted in colors and contrast.

Concerning sharpness. I tend to shoot the 16-35 wide open most of the time however this is with people so I am not too concerned with corner sharpness.

I have once used the 16-35 to shoot a small bathroom at f8 which turned out great even in the corners. Today the 16-35 has a really good correction profile in ACR.



I really like the 16-35, it is very useful.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2010, 04:07:45 am by Dustbak »
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Lightsmith

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Re: comparisions between 16-35f4VR and 14-24
« Reply #4 on: November 21, 2010, 07:59:13 pm »

The 14-24mm is sharper than any 14mm or 24mm prime I have used (from either Nikon or Canon). But it does not take filters so it is more difficult to protect in adverse conditions than the 16-35mm f4 lens (windblown dust or sand and the like). Neither lens is going to be great with a polarizing filter, but the 16-35mm will be easier and a lot cheaper to equip with ND and grad filters which should be enough to make it most people's choice.
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Ray

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Re: comparisions between 16-35f4VR and 14-24
« Reply #5 on: November 21, 2010, 11:45:35 pm »

This would be a difficult decision for me if I didn't already own the Nikkor 14-24/2.8. I value image stabilisation greatly. I think I'd be prepared to sacrifice that one stop wider aperture for the benefits of VR and get the longer reach of the 16-35/F4 thrown in.

However, there are one or two points that would worry me.

First, 14mm really is noticeably wider than 16mm. A couple of mm might not seem much, but at these extreme wide angles it does mean something.

Secondly, there seems to be no doubt that the 14-24/2.8 is a generally sharper lens than the 16-35/F4, especially towards the edges and corners of the frame.

When I checked out the test results at Photozone at http://www.photozone.de/nikon--nikkor-aps-c-lens-tests/361-nikkor-af-s-14-24mm-f28-g-ed-n-test-report--review I was quite amazed at the MTF50 results for the 14-24 on the DX Nikon D200.

This lens might be the best wide-angle zoom lens ever produced in the history of mankind.

The Nikkor 14-24/2.8 is the only lens I own, whether zoom or prime, that has a resolution performance from corner to corner which is virtually as good at full aperture as at any other F stop, at its shortest focal length.

I tend to expect zooms to have a sweet spot roughly in the middle of the range, but this Nikkor 14-24 is virtually as sharp at 14mm and F2.8, from corner to corner, as it is at F5.6, and even slightly sharper at the extreme borders at F2.8 than it is at F8. Wow!

I've taken a screen grab of the MTF50 graphs, from Photozone, comparing both lenses at their shortest focal length, and at 24mm.

I guess the bottom line is, how much premium do you put on 'excellence' as opposed to 'very good'?
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Rob C

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Re: comparisions between 16-35f4VR and 14-24
« Reply #6 on: November 22, 2010, 08:20:13 am »

I imagine that for many, myself included, a greater question has to be: I don't work in a nunnery; am I prepared to risk bare lenses on the beach, in the wind, and even knocking around in a bag, given that it isn't always done to stick caps back on? I assume it does accept lens caps?

Quite why Nikkon hasn't got round to designing protection for that expensive glass is beyond me; even the latest papal bull takes protection into account!

Is Nikon now in danger of ap(e)ing John Lennon in its self-evaluation?

Rob C

BernardLanguillier

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Re: comparisions between 16-35f4VR and 14-24
« Reply #7 on: November 22, 2010, 08:53:31 am »

Lee Filters has finally released their special holder to the 14-24 f2.8 http://www.leefilters.com/camera/news/ref:N4CDBA84FC0C9F/

One caveat is that apparently do not intend to produce a PL filter for this system.

Cheers,
Bernard

Ray

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Re: comparisions between 16-35f4VR and 14-24
« Reply #8 on: November 22, 2010, 09:24:30 am »

I imagine that for many, myself included, a greater question has to be: I don't work in a nunnery; am I prepared to risk bare lenses on the beach, in the wind, and even knocking around in a bag, given that it isn't always done to stick caps back on? I assume it does accept lens caps?

Quite why Nikkon hasn't got round to designing protection for that expensive glass is beyond me; even the latest papal bull takes protection into account!

Is Nikon now in danger of ap(e)ing John Lennon in its self-evaluation?

Rob C

Rob,
I never use protective filters on any of my lenses and I certainly don't work in a nunnery. However, I can imagine situations where one might be fighting one's way through dense undergrowth in the wet jungle dripping with rain, getting splashed by waterfalls and scratched by thorns, and other situations where one is caught in a desert storm.

In such situations it would be advisable to put the lens cap on the 14-24/2.8. It fits quite tightly over the fixed lens hood and is not easily knocked off.

The main disadvantage is not being able to use a filter for a desired special effect, such as an ND. However, as Bernard has pointed out, this is no longer a disadvantage, just an extra expense.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2010, 09:32:34 am by Ray »
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JeffKohn

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Re: comparisions between 16-35f4VR and 14-24
« Reply #9 on: November 22, 2010, 01:08:40 pm »

Hey Guys

Trying to decide between these two wides. Thought I was going for the 14-24 but have heard that the new 16-35 is the new sharpness king. I'm shooting landscape on both the D7000 and D3x and love the idea of being able to use ND filters on the 16-35.
The 14-24 is pretty much without peer as a super-wide. There aren't even any SLR primes that can be considered its peer with the possible exception of the Zeiss 21mm. What's really amazing about the 14-24 is that it doesn't have any real weakness excepting a very small amount of easily correctable CA at some focal lengths and apertures. It's incredibly sharp right from f/2.8, even into the corners, pretty much across its entire zoom range (although it's arguably slightly better at the wide end than the 'long' end).

Having said that, I don't really consider the 14-24 a landscape lens for several reasons. The focal range, f/2.8 aperture, and the fact that it's optimized for shooting at wide apertures make it arguably more useful as a PJ/street lens. As a landscape shooter I just don't find the focal range useful; sure, I occasionally shoot in that range; but not that often. A lens that extends to 30-35mm instead of just 24mm would mean a lot less lens swapping. And as impressive as the f/2.8 performance is, I mostly tend to shoot at middle apertures, and would prefer not to pay the size/weight penalty for capabilities I seldom (if ever) need. Then there's the filter issue; IMHO the new Lee contraption doesn't eliminate this issue, because it's large, cumbersome, very expensive, specific to this one lens, and still doesn't support polarizers. The two filters I tend to use are a polarizer and my Sing-ray vari-ND; I don't care about grad filters (I prefer digital exposure blending).

The 16-35 f/4  on the other hand, is a good wideangle landscape lens IMHO. It does have some of the compromises traditionally expected with zoom lenses which are worth understanding. While it's not bad at f/4, things improve greatly by stopping down even to f/5.6. But from f/5.6-f/11 it's darned close to the 14-24 for sharpness, especially in the 20-24mm range where I'd say they're pretty much indistinguishable for sharpness (the 14-24 may still have a bit more contrast/bite though). Both the focal range and the ability to use my standard 77mm filters are very welcome. I mostly shoot from a tripod, so I'm usually not concerned about VR; but I did get some use out of it recently shooting from a boat on a lake, and I can see it being very useful inside places such as museums, churches, etc where tripods are not allowed.

The 16-35 has two significant weaknesses. The first is massive barrel distortion at 16mm. It improves by 18mm, and is gone by 20mm. But at 16mm it's wicked bad. While this can be corrected in software, such a large correction means losing significant image to post-correction crop (and losing resolution in the corners due to interpolation). The second issue is sharpness in the 30-35mm range, which is not nearly as good as other focal lengths. Stopping down doesn't bring things into the acceptable range for me (on a D3x), though with lower pixel density (D700, D3s, etc) it might be OK.

So basically I treat the 16-35 VR as an 18-30mm lens. That's where I find the performance to be truly excellent and it's also a range I'm far more likely to use than 14-24mm. So for me, the 16-35 VR is a more useful landscape lens than the 14-24. I originally thought it would completely replace the 14-24 for me and I'd sell the latter; but I haven't been able to bring myself to sell the 14-24, given its stellar performance and the fact that every once in a while I have a need for that 14-18mm range. But if I didn't own either lens, the 16-35 would definitely be my first purchase.

 
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Jeff Kohn
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Rob C

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Re: comparisions between 16-35f4VR and 14-24
« Reply #10 on: November 22, 2010, 01:27:05 pm »

Lee Filters has finally released their special holder to the 14-24 f2.8 http://www.leefilters.com/camera/news/ref:N4CDBA84FC0C9F/

One caveat is that apparently do not intend to produce a PL filter for this system.

Cheers,
Bernard




Thanks for the heads up, Bernard. Worries about polarizing wouldn't happen for me - I find that even a 24mm is far too wide to allow comfortable use of a pola filter - skies darken too much at one side because of the vast sky space that exists at that focal length.

I've come to suspect that pola filers are a bit of a mixed blessing: they do accentuate some things, but also drown out shadow detail somewhat unless exposure is increased, and that negates part of the pola effect in some instances.

Such is life.

Rob C
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