An olive branch from 35mm - we're not all crazy.

[pcunite]

First of all, I apologize for posting this image in the MFD section.  I won't do it again. I appeal to the moderator for grace as I explain why.

I don't like 35mm forums. I don't like their images, I don't like their technique, and I don't like their owner's attitudes. I really enjoy Luminous Landscape because of those who post here. I enjoy the very high quality imagery that comes from masterful technique and on occasion images that appear to be created from team efforts.

Since I am a 35mm system owner I can't participate in many of the discussions about gear that occur here. Even my opinion of what is best is not relevant because after all, I have not written the check for MFD. When I'm not in a bad mood, it is fun to watch the firework shows here, however. There are days when I feel like I should just buy a cheap MFD system (or worse claim I still love MF film) to be taken seriously.

To enjoy the fun, and maybe gain some respect I humbly post an image from my archive. To me it looks nice. I do photography for commercial reasons, but I always try to get as much of my heart into my work. A lot of what I do is mostly boring I think and does not get much internet forum praise. If the MFD owners here think this image sucks, I'll accept that and move on.

I will say that this image is not perfect, I have yet to make a perfect image. There are subtle things I wish I could change. The print was stunning.

[fredjeang]

I like this image too.

You know, I was relooking recently to Eugene Smith images after a Rob's post mentionned it.
I almost forgotten how powerfull he was, what could he do with any camera. Look, those pics are not surgery, they lack resolution to our standards, they are grainy etc...
but not a lot of people on earth capable to produce such a powerfull imagery.

As keith said, I could care less what camera anyone uses.

Cheers.

Fred.

[Eric Myrvaagnes]

I like the image a lot too. My only criticism is that I wish she had tilted the cookie sheet slightly forward so I could see the cookies better!

(To enter the fray I'll add that I use a ____________ camera, which suits my purposes quite well, and probably better than would a _____________ camera, but I can't be sure because I haven't tried one.)

Eric

[pcunite]

I like the image a lot too. My only criticism is that I wish she had tilted the cookie sheet slightly forward so I could see the cookies better!

Me too! That was the first thing I wish I could change.

[Graham Mitchell]

I agree that it's the image which counts, not the equipment, when it comes to photography. However this is a niche technical forum, not a forum about the art of photography in general. If all 35mm users started posting here then it would become just another 35mm forum, which you yourself dislike so perhaps you can see the conundrum. Anyway, I don't see why you can't participate in this forum. Everyone is welcome whether they own MF digital gear or not. The idea is just to keep the posts on topic to keep the forum relevant. Just my $0.02

[pcunite]

Thank you Graham. Your work is excellent and a favorite style of mine.

[pixjohn]

Its a nice shot, but if i needed to nick pick. I think an apron would also be a nice added touch, and I would also like to see a little more of the cookies.   

[tom b]

So just who is crazy?

Cheers,

[OldRoy]

"I don't like 35mm forums. I don't like their images, I don't like their technique, and I don't like their owner's attitudes."

What an astonishing expression of arrogance. A prize-winning post.

I hope you stay right here as I don't have any mf gear and don't visit very often. And, fwiw (as a 35mm user, probably nothing) your posted image is a banal snapshot; in my ever-so-humble, amateur opinion.

Roy

[fredjeang]

Roy, I don't really agree with your criticism on the OP image. This is a good picture, very usable for an advertising campaign about many subjects, or life style etc... It would need IMO photoshoping, for example to enhance the gran'ma's time colors, but the base is good. In terms of purely photographic art, this picture is sensitive and "refreshing" (can't find the way to express it), it brings good vibes. The expression of the lady is perfect. Not a spectacular image that jump in your eyes straight away but a good picture according to me.

I wouldn't mind having this picture in the agency's archives if I where an AD, and printed big, it would also fit perfectly in a serious art gallery. Actually, some very good photographers have made their WW reputation with this kind of pictures.

Regards.

[John R Smith]

Fred is correct, this is a really nice picture. The colours are good, technically everything is spot-on, and it is a long way from being a "banal snapshot". And like most people, the last thing I would bother to ask is what camera was used to take the shot.

John

[stamper]

I don't see the point of this thread to be honest. Is it for a critique of the picture or is it for the purpose of a rant. Either way it fails on both counts.

[John R Smith]

That really leads me to the B.C statement about the voices have the same weight in the internet. Now I understand what he meant.

That's right. Even my voice, which is very amusing. But you live in the real world, so you have a different, and more balanced perspective. One of my alternative personalities is as a musician and guitar player - years ago, that's how I earned my living. Something which struck me then was that the very best players I met would sound amazing on anything - you could hand them any guitar that was lying around, and they would blow you away.

To paraphrase an old saying - those who can do, do, those who can't do teach, and those who can't do or teach hang around internet forums. As Fred would say, just kidding, folks.

John

[fredjeang]

That's right. Even my voice, which is very amusing. But you live in the real world, so you have a different, and more balanced perspective. One of my alternative personalities is as a musician and guitar player - years ago, that's how I earned my living. Something which struck me then was that the very best players I met would sound amazing on anything - you could hand them any guitar that was lying around, and they would blow you away.

To paraphrase an old saying - those who can do, do, those who can't do teach, and those who can't do or teach hang around internet forums. As Fred would say, just kidding, folks.

John

Absolutly! I actually saw that many times. Only a very very good musician can take advantage of a Stradivarius.

[BernardLanguillier]

This image is definitely well executed. I like the coherence between the simple composition, natural looking lighting and what comes accross of the personnality of the subject, natural and relaxed also. It has a very negative film feel to it. It is a no show off image that would get few points on Photosig.

Tell me about those 35mm shooters, they remind me of Bose owners driving their Toyota to work. I bet they drink coke and eat at Mac Donalds as well.

Cheers,
Bernard

[Guy Mancuso]

I just want a damn Oatmeal raisin cookie off that tray. LOL

Nice shot

[Eric Myrvaagnes]

I just want a damn Oatmeal raisin cookie off that tray. LOL

Nice shot

No, No! Chocolate Chip, please!

Eric

[pcunite]

I appreciate the pat on the back gentlemen, I really needed that from my peers. I think that in order to get to the next level, the level I want to be at, I need to start communicating with people who's work I admire. These are typically MFD users. To all 35mm users (me too) don't take offense to my statement about us, it is not arrogance toward our group, but appreciation for those above us (style not equipment wise). I know about RainerV and others. However, there are no local clubs I like or even a photographer in my area that I admire in the style I wish to shoot. Other forums are pretty wild, thus LL becomes a safe haven.

I work weekly for a local magazine. I am very close to negotiating the ability to shoot whatever I want and the businesses just supply the needed items. This is what I have always wanted. I don't think I would be in competition with the other advertising shooters here at all. Somehow I would like to find one and ask them questions.

There is a disconnect in what I see in my mind, and using the equipment to realize that vision. For me I struggle with lighting, followed by post processing. This synthesis with my vision and light/post I must find. My work is well received in my local economy but they don't have the eye that this board has. Up to a point (leaving my personal style intact) I want to please a more advanced audience. However, I only wish to shoot for this magazine exclusively so I would not be competing with anyone here.

[pcunite]

I hope you stay right here as I don't have any mf gear and don't visit very often. And, fwiw (as a 35mm user, probably nothing) your posted image is a banal snapshot; in my ever-so-humble, amateur opinion.

I truly value your feedback. I typically receive these kinds of remarks on other forums so I have long since been afraid to show my work. When I read comments like yours my first thought is "my customers must be idiots." And that is the crux of the matter. Am I a charlatan? Where do the technical and artistic lines meet? I don't really desire an online forum following of my work, but somehow more eyes have to see it to provide me with clues.

[Guy Mancuso]

I appreciate the pat on the back gentlemen, I really needed that from my peers. I think that in order to get to the next level, the level I want to be at, I need to start communicating with people who's work I admire. These are typically MFD users. To all 35mm users (me too) don't take offense to my statement about us, it is not arrogance toward our group, but appreciation for those above us (style not equipment wise). I know about RainerV and others. However, there are no local clubs I like or even a photographer in my area that I admire in the style I wish to shoot. Other forums are pretty wild, thus LL becomes a safe haven.

I work weekly for a local magazine. I am very close to negotiating the ability to shoot whatever I want and the businesses just supply the needed items. This is what I have always wanted. I don't think I would be in competition with the other advertising shooters here at all. Somehow I would like to find one and ask them questions.

There is a disconnect in what I see in my mind, and using the equipment to realize that vision. For me I struggle with lighting, followed by post processing. This synthesis with my vision and light/post I must find. My work is well received in my local economy but they don't have the eye that this board has. Up to a point (leaving my personal style intact) I want to please a more advanced audience. However, I only wish to shoot for this magazine exclusively so I would not be competing with anyone here.

Okay I will go out on a limb here and this comes from someone that shot 35mm for many years and actually still does on certain jobs. This is NOT about any product but about the formats. For me it is not such a big issue because i work really fast anyway and that is my nature but I think fast and can get the image fairly quickly. Sometimes though when I pick up the 35mm it becomes a little brainless because you tend to let it take over more than you actually working the cam and maybe due to to much automation. In a way that is good but I view it is as bad sometimes as you can get dependent on the automation that these cams can provide. Now i am mostly a manual shooter but let's all face it we cheat and run in auto mode sometimes. My problem with this format is it really does not give me any excitement to shoot although these cams are really brilliant on what they can do. MF does slow you down and not by the machine itself per say but you work the cam just like you would work a Leica M9 for instance and I find that I pay attention more to what is in front of me and also i actually like to work hard so the extra efforts involved in MF make me overall work harder pay attention more and obviously that for me at least turns into better images. Now not saying 35mm can't that is NOT my point. End of day your a artist and you need to produce and the gear really does not matter but sometimes the mindset can and all I am pointing out.

For me I like the MF much better and not going to get into all that stuff but it does give me more motivation to nail everything and let's face it since no one will anyway but I will . I spent a good amount of money on this format and no not even close to 50k but I want to get the most out of it and have the IQ that I am really after. Now sometimes maybe this format does not make sense to some as they shoot certain types of work it is really not setup for, totally understand that and if given what you do it may or may not work. Frankly there is no harm in that at all. You shoot what pays and makes sense to your clients as well. Most MF shooters have two systems anyway. Myself i push the MF onto the 35mm world as much as i can with a certain comfort level in that.

Now if you want to try to get into the MF digital world you certainly can easily given a modest budget. Hassy , Phase, Leaf, Kodak older backs, ZD's all have a big used market out there for pretty good prices and certainly within some of the 35mm Pro ranges if this is what you want to try. I love the format but some will not obviously but I still get excited to see my screen and my 7900 prints come screaming off the rollers. This stuff just turns my jets on. Honestly after 35 years working as a Pro anything that can get my jets pumped is worth having. It may not be for you in your case and this is when you need to sit down do the Pro's and Cons and frankly really do your homework if this will buy you any advantage at all, if not than don't do it improve yourself maybe with lighting classes and such instead of jumping formats. I already did but I still need to do a lot and this will take money but my web site is 9 years old and that is really sad on my part. So if this is more important is promote yourself than dump the money there . For me these are my next purchases is to get more business. As everyone here may not say it but everyone here has lost clients or slowed down due to the economy and i don't care what type of shooting you do it has affected all of us and we all need to look for more work. So if you go down this path do it with care.