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Author Topic: Focus glass falls loose on EOS 5D Mark II  (Read 18240 times)

bernt

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Focus glass falls loose on EOS 5D Mark II
« on: October 26, 2010, 01:29:28 pm »

I have owned: EOS 30D, 40D, 50D, EOS 5, EOS 1D Mark III. I am a semi-professional photografer and I have published 8 books with more than 2000 pictures taken with these cameras. I am not a new beginner.
I worked with my one year old EOS 5D Mark II with no problem a couple of months ago, stored it about two weeks without taking the lens off, when I took it out again I could not use the camera. When I took the lens off both the focusing screen and the superimpose plate fell out of the camera house.
This has happened on numerous occasions for several users even on brand nes cameras, see: http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/canon-eos-5d-mk-ii-hd/484053-focusing-screen-fell-out.html
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Canon does not acknowledge this problem and do not accept that this is a construction fault or a guarantee matter. I had to pay  fully for the "repair", even though they "found nothing wrong with the camera house".
This is obviously a bad construction!
To me it is bad policy from Canon that not to acknowledge this problem as a constuction fault.
Sorry, but I can´t recommend this camera to anyone anymore after this. I just won´t be able to trust it out in the field.
Any other users of this camera that experienced the same thing?
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Steve Weldon

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Re: Focus glass falls loose on EOS 5D Mark II
« Reply #1 on: October 26, 2010, 03:36:10 pm »

Quite a rant for your second post.  If you really think you're going to have any effect on peoples choice to use Canon I think you'll be disappointed.

I'd suggest you save your receipt.  The 5d had the same issue and once Canon recognized the problem they paid for all repairs and if I'm not mistaken, still do on the 5d. 

Canon is a big company.  Once you've paid attention to this sort of thing for a while you'll notice they have an internal process of collecting reports, examining cameras, finding the cause, determining a fix, and then releasing a service bulletin if they feel one is warranted.  It almost never happens from just one users experience, or a few people in a forum..  heck, sometimes (such as the 1d3) it takes a village.. ;o)
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Joe Behar

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Re: Focus glass falls loose on EOS 5D Mark II
« Reply #2 on: October 26, 2010, 07:58:30 pm »


Sorry, but I can´t recommend this camera to anyone anymore after this. I just won´t be able to trust it out in the field.


I'd be happy to take that albatross off your hands for $100 and ease your mind.

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bernt

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Re: Focus glass falls loose on EOS 5D Mark II
« Reply #3 on: October 27, 2010, 12:39:48 am »

The reason I can not any more trust the camera house of my EOS 5D Mark II is obvious.
It may fall apart anytime, which Canon considers not to be a problem and "nothing is wrong".
I currently use 5 different camera houses professionally. Covering sports event I have always brought at least two camera houses, because of the necessity to use another lens fast, I do not have the time to shift the lenses on one camera house on sports events, the action is too fast, so I use at least two different camera houses not changing the lenses between the camera houses.
Sometimes, so far, when I go out on certain other jobs, I have brought only one camera house.
This I will do in the future with all other camera houses except the EOS 5D Mark II, because of it´s poor construction that is obviously not reliable.
I use the 5D Mark II for especially low light and indoor photo jobs, like in a theatre or jazz club, where I need to use wide angle lenses or it´s sensor for low light photos, where I can´t use a flash.
In the future I will NEVER bring ONLY the 5D Mark II on ANY job, because I consider the camera not reliable.
I will always bring another camera or camerahouse along as back up, whenever I use the 5D Mark II.
I have NEVER experienced that parts from the interior of a camera have come loose spontaneously earlier in my career, and I have been in the business since 1968.
I think this is valuable information for other professional and also amateur photografers to know.
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mahleu

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Re: Focus glass falls loose on EOS 5D Mark II
« Reply #4 on: October 28, 2010, 06:17:20 am »

So Canon is effectively forcing you to carry two cameras. Sounds like good marketing.
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bernt

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Re: Focus glass falls loose on EOS 5D Mark II
« Reply #5 on: October 28, 2010, 10:09:49 am »

I have never been disappointed with Canon before.
But with the EOS 5D Mark II, I am really disappointed because of the crappy construction with the focus glass.
I have 3 Canon camera houses at the moment. EOS 7D, 5D Mark II and 1D Mark III.
The one I like most because of it´s ruggedness and picture quality is the EOS 1D mark III.
This is an outstanding camera, when the focusing issue has been resolved which is done for free at a Canon repair shop.

My advice to anyone is: buy the EOS 1D Mark III used for relatively cheap money or the EOS 1D Mark IV of you can afford it.
Do not buy an EOS 5D Mark II, you may find yourself on a photo mission not being able to use the camera because of parts coming loose, even if you handle the camera as you should.
80% of the time I carry 2 camera houses anyway.
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Steve Weldon

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Re: Focus glass falls loose on EOS 5D Mark II
« Reply #6 on: October 28, 2010, 10:25:48 am »

"you may find yourself on a photo mission not being able to use the camera because of parts coming loose, "

I think in such a case I would revert to my backup body.

I'm getting the distinct impression you're a bit upset with Canon..

Do you mind if ask you a question?  Have you personally changed your style, not bought a camera, or otherwise had your professional choice of tools changed because of the experiences of one person on a forum who appears to have come to the forum for the express purpose of complaining about a single issue? 
« Last Edit: October 28, 2010, 10:29:36 am by Steve Weldon »
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bernt

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Re: Focus glass falls loose on EOS 5D Mark II
« Reply #7 on: October 28, 2010, 11:06:32 am »

Yes, I have.
The focus glass coming loose in an EOS 5D Mark II has been experienced by quite a few people, see the site I refer to in my first comment.
Only in my town of 90.000 people one more person experienced the same thing in our photo club.
So the quality of this camera house construction is obviously not good enough for a pro photografer partly living off his camera work, like me.
I am extremely pleased with my EOS 1D Mark III and the following lenses: 50mm/1.2, 70-200mm/2.8 L IS and 300mm/2.8 L IS.
Some other Canon L lenses I  am not that satisfied with, but those 3 are really excellent.
As far as the camera houses, picture quality is excellent with the 5d Mark II and believe it or not, just as good with the 1D Mark III as far as the type of photo jobs I do.
The 7D produces less good quality than these top cameras, but is still an excellent and better camera compared to 30D, 40D and 50D in my experience.
Usually you get what you pay for, so what can you expect from the 7D? Not pro quality, but really good anyway especially as a backup.
As far as the EOS 5D Mark II, I payed the equivalent of 3200 USD for it, and in this price bracket I did NOT ecpect the camera to dissolve in pieces.
This has never happened to me in my entire life before and I have owned many cameras including the ones I have mentioned here, but also 4 Leicas and 1 Hasselblad. I just can´t fully trust the thing after this happened to me.
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Steve Weldon

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Re: Focus glass falls loose on EOS 5D Mark II
« Reply #8 on: October 28, 2010, 11:30:59 pm »

Fair enough. 

All cameras fail, the 1d3 which you praise so highly was infamous for it's AF problems, everyone cussing it, cussing Canon, etc.. yet mine always seemed to perform as it should.  At least for my uses. 

I read about these issues from poor weather sealing (14 guys go to Antarctica and virtually every Canon they took fails due to weatherproofing, etc, etc..), focusing, CF card errors, other error codes, and so on.. and I figure maybe if I was pushing my gear that hard in like circumstances I'd have reason to worry.  Before I worry the issue needs to cross a threshold that affects a significant number of people using the camera as I use it.

It's like medicine.. millions take it and only hundreds experience side affects.  Just because I experience a side affect doesn't mean I expect the millions using the medicine to good effect to change their meds.

This problem of yours was an issue with the original 5d.. Canon eventually recognized it, refunded repair costs, and to this day will service this issue if you experience in/out of warranty.  An ideal outcome.  It's no surprise they'd use many of the same construction methods in the 5dII.. or that it would have the same issues.   I'd guess it's just a matter of time before Canon recognizes the issues on this model as well.

And if I remember right.. very few of the 5d's failed in this manner, very rare actually..  But when they did, it turns out the one thing most had in common was operating the camera or leaving it in very high heat.. like in a vehicle in the sun.. which made the adhesive fail.
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bernt

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Re: Focus glass falls loose on EOS 5D Mark II
« Reply #9 on: October 29, 2010, 12:57:46 am »

Well, the 1D Mark III is built like a tank, it just works, a truly professional piece of equipment.
The 5D Mark II obviously is not built with the same quality.

The focus glass fell out while the camera was stored inside my house last summer, temperature inside was about 25 C (77 F) degrees, give or take a few degrees. There was absolutely no abuse or misshandling done to the camera.
The other guy in my home town this happened to was also inside a house when it happened.

Very interesting that you mention the same problem has been an issue with the 5D.
Do you have any references to give me (articles etc), that I can refer to when I discuss this with Canon again?
That would certainly help, because Canon Sweden claims they have no reports on this problem at all with the 5D Mark II

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Steve Weldon

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Re: Focus glass falls loose on EOS 5D Mark II
« Reply #10 on: October 29, 2010, 04:11:24 am »

Well, the 1D Mark III is built like a tank, it just works, a truly professional piece of equipment.
The 5D Mark II obviously is not built with the same quality.


The issues with the 1d3 are very well known and covered in most every photography site and forum I know.  It was really embarrassing for Canon.  Probably their worst blunder ever.   Yet, as you say the camera was/is built to a high build standard.  It simply had a defect.  The 5d Mark II is not built to the same build standard as a 1d3, nor are they made for operating in the same conditions nor were they built for the same service life.  But they are both built to a high degree of quality.

My point on this is.. you're praising one body which has a very well known issue, several expensive recalls from Canon, and a problem which has affected the greater percentage of owners.  Yet, you're being very harsh on another body with a relatively obscure problem affecting in comparison very few people.  It's obvious you're being guided by the degree of inconvenience you've experienced.. and not necessarily the camera.  You're not going to influence anyones buying decisions with this sort of logic or presentation.  You simply come off as an angry customer.

It doesn't matter how many years you've been a photographer or what cameras you've owned.. This is a consumer problem which requires consumer skills to rectify, and not a photography problem where you're background is in question.  If someone with 1 day of experience told me their focus screen and roof pentaprism fell out, or someone with 30 years of experience told me the same thing, I'd believe both.  It fell out.  It's wrong, it's a defect.  Defects happen.

When I said 'heat' was the culprit, I didn't mean at the time it fell out.  Most of the people with the problems traced back to some period not long before the failure where they left the camera in a hot car, in the direct sun, or somewhere where it became very hot.  I would hope the 5d Mark II isn't failing for the same reasons the original 5d failed..

Your service center should have a list of effective service bulletins on the 5d handy.. same with the 1d3.  If you haven't had your 1d3 in for the AF problem you'll probably want to do this.  It's something most second hand buyers will ask you about that model.  You can do some googles on the issue and go back and read about it, I had no reason so save links.

My experience being around the service centers.. when a customer is obviously agitated they tend to want you to leave as soon as possible and they don't much enjoy 'chatting' with you.  They'll go a lot further for someone with a calm demeanor and a real curiosity to identify the problem.
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bernt

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Re: Focus glass falls loose on EOS 5D Mark II
« Reply #11 on: October 29, 2010, 10:56:02 am »

You are wrong when you assume I am angry or agitated.
I have held a very reasonable tone in my letters to Canon.
But I am really disapointed with the camera falling apart, and Canon not acknowledging the problem.
As far as who will take into consideration my experience with this, in my opinion poorly built camara, is up not to me to guess, but I am by this warning others to trust the 5D Mark II completely on important photo missions. My advice is to always have a backup camera house.
My 1D mark III has been on service already (for free) regarding the AF issue, and by gholly, it doesn´t come apart...
Enough of this conversation. I made my point clear.
If anyone else has experienced the same thing, I would like to get in touch with you!
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Steve Weldon

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Re: Focus glass falls loose on EOS 5D Mark II
« Reply #12 on: October 29, 2010, 01:11:34 pm »

"You are wrong when you assume I am angry or agitated.
I have held a very reasonable tone in my letters to Canon."


I am only going on what you're written in this thread.  It is the way your words have appeared to me.

"But I am really disapointed with the camera falling apart, and Canon not acknowledging the problem."

I think this is a fair disappointment.  I'd imagine we all would feel this way.  However, we also know that often a company later acknowledges such issues and makes good on them.  Canon has a history of doing this.  Heck, I have a $4000 laptop with a blown video card which is useless and Nvidia finally agreed to settle a class action suit which will get this laptop repaired.  It's irritating, but a chance we take with most any high-tech item.

"but I am by this warning others to trust the 5D Mark II completely on important photo missions. My advice is to always have a backup camera house."

Excellent advice.  When someone pays us to be professionals, IMO part of our contract is to do whatever is customary to ensure the job gets done.  Having redundant gear is customary.   I've been fortunate throughout the years and rarely had issues.. but once my 1ds2 wouldn't function at a wedding.  I grabbed my 1d3 and kept shooting.  When I had a break I looked further and discovered the focus screen had dropped down.  When I took the lens off the focus screen dropped in the gutter!  I replaced it and both cameras were back in operation after the first break.. Defective latch?  Poorly adjusted latch?  Ill fitting focus screen?  I dunno.. Canon adjusted it the next week and it never happened again.  I'm sure we all have such stories with all levels of gear.

"My 1D mark III has been on service already (for free) regarding the AF issue, and by gholly, it doesn´t come apart..."

Perhaps not, but a unfocused image is about as good as no image..  Still, it took Canon quite a while after the problem was first recognized until they made good on the repairs.

"I made my point clear."

You did.  To what effect?

"If anyone else has experienced the same thing, I would like to get in touch with you!"

If you'll allow.. this would have been the first request I expected from someone truly looking to get Canon to take a closer look at this problem.  Perhaps if you can organize a collective response to Canon you'll prompt them to take a closer look at the issue. 
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jcdwbox@comcast.net

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Re: Focus glass falls loose on EOS 5D Mark II
« Reply #13 on: March 14, 2011, 11:08:00 pm »

I just bought my 5D Mark II.  As much as this camera cost the Glass shouldn't fall out.... I got it 10days ago ( 3/4/11) and used it 4 times.  I haven't even had a chance to mistreat it.  I changed the lenses and seen this loose piece of glass laying on the mirror.  I have all Canon products and NONE of them have loose glass hanging out. I am FREAKIN MAD ... It is definitely a construction problem..

I will let you know what happens tomorrow.  Canon and the Purchase place will be getting a call first thing in the Morning.

J
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bernt

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Re: Focus glass falls loose on EOS 5D Mark II
« Reply #14 on: March 14, 2011, 11:43:46 pm »

I have contacted the following persons in the Canon Corp regarding the problem with the focusing screen falling loose.

In Japan:
Haruo Murase; <murase.haruo@canon-mj.co.jp>

In the Netherlands:
Norgaard, D. - Dennis - <Dennis.Norgaard@canon-europe.com>
EMEA Customer Services Director
Service & Support
Canon Europa N.V.


They have responed very politely to my questions and taken me seriously.
They had me send my camera to their engineers in both the Netherlands and in Japan for inspection BUT THEY COULD NOT FIND ANYTHING WRONG WITH MY CAMERA.
They have also arranged a full refund for my expenses foro the "repair" of the camera putting the loose parts in place, which Canon Sweden refused.

I would recommend you to get in touch with these people, since now at least the problem with the focusing screen is officially reported to Canon. The more people that report this to Canon, obviously the better.
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LKaven

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Re: Focus glass falls loose on EOS 5D Mark II
« Reply #15 on: March 15, 2011, 10:38:13 am »

My 5DII came out-of-box with intermittent hard power failure, oil spots on the mirror, and a fogged rear LCD.  When I took it back to Adorama, they said "yeah, we get a lot of these back."  I bought a D3x instead and never regretted it, in spite of the high cost.

In my experience, if you go after these companies, you will get frustrated, but you can sometimes get results if you don't give up. 

Kirk Gittings

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Re: Focus glass falls loose on EOS 5D Mark II
« Reply #16 on: March 15, 2011, 10:53:32 am »

FWIW, I've had a number of Canons, including the 5D II. They suffer under hard professional use. I always carry a backup, BUT have never ever needed one. Any serious professional would always bring a backup. But.....AAMOF not one of my cameras have ever required service beyond a sensor cleaning.
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Craig Lamson

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Re: Focus glass falls loose on EOS 5D Mark II
« Reply #17 on: March 15, 2011, 06:02:37 pm »

FWIW, I've had a number of Canons, including the 5D II. They suffer under hard professional use. I always carry a backup, BUT have never ever needed one. Any serious professional would always bring a backup. But.....AAMOF not one of my cameras have ever required service beyond a sensor cleaning.

When my 1DSmkIII was new the sensor failed after just a week.  Could not get KEH to take it as a return so it had to go to Canon.  They had it for a few days and it came back flawless.  I was worried about trusting it but that has been years ago and I use this body constantly with no problems.

To the original poster, if they fixed it and it works, use it.  And carry a backup.
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schrodingerscat

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Re: Focus glass falls loose on EOS 5D Mark II
« Reply #18 on: March 26, 2011, 02:12:47 pm »

Not sure what's actually being discussed here. The 'camera house' that the Canon tech referred to is probably the mirror box. The 'glass' refered to by the OP seems to indicate the focus screen(plastic, actually). The focus screen in user replaceable designs like the 5 and 1 Ds is held in place by a drop down frame. Care must be taken when changing out the screen to make sure the frame is securely clipped in place. Care should also be taken when cleaning or working around in the mirror box area so as not to accidently hit the clip that holds the focus screen in place. It is also possible to knock it loose if the camera is jostled just so or durring lens installation.

The camera did not 'fall apart', and reinstalling the screen would have solved the problem. And because this situation happened to you does not mean there is a fundamental engineering or assembly flaw, otherwise they would have this happening with thousands, if not millions, of units. These are mass produced products, and like anything else there will be some that get passed QC. And since there is little or no field testing with prototypes these days, some problems don't manifest themselves until the product is released in the wild.

Canon did have an early production run of 5Ds that had a problem with the primary mirror loosening, but it was relatively minor in scope. Not minor to the people who experienced it, but statistically nominal and seemed related to certain environmental conditions.

Of all the camera manufacturers I've dealt with, Canon has the best record of service and warranty performance I've seen. If their tech popped the screen back in place and the frame clipped in as it should, he would classify it as no problem found. If the frame or clip was damaged, then it would probably not be covered by warranty in any case.

The manufacturers do not do clean-and-checks or partial repairs on equipment sent to them, and all repairs are on a flat rate. They will do a check over if you take it to one of their factory repair facilities. If there's any left in your area, most independent shops will check things over at no or little cost. If you are indeed a working professional, it is very worthwhile to join the manu's professional service program. Canon's is PCS.
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Outback Shooter

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Re: Focus glass falls loose on EOS 5D Mark II
« Reply #19 on: April 18, 2011, 12:30:19 am »

How about it - if you hate your new Canon 5D then sell it to one of us!!!  We'll help you out ;D
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