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Author Topic: Two similar suburban Shanghai cityscapes  (Read 3414 times)

michswiss

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Two similar suburban Shanghai cityscapes
« on: October 22, 2010, 12:17:29 am »

1)


2)

michswiss

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Re: Two similar suburban Shanghai cityscapes
« Reply #1 on: October 28, 2010, 08:23:35 am »

At the risk of awakening the latin duck, I'll respond to my own thread.

I'm working on a series that's attempting to juxtapose and relate aspects of interior and exterior Shanghai.  Both images are from locations north of the city but in different communities.  For what it's worth, Shanghai is at it's core essentially a water town.  Get out of the centre and canals are everywhere.

I'm looking for feedback on whether the images themselves work and additionally what each communicates to you.  I'm aware that the background in the first might evoke a different reaction than the foreground in the second and that each could serve a different purpose in a series.

I'm also willing to accept that both images are basically crap.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2010, 08:25:25 am by michswiss »
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John R Smith

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Re: Two similar suburban Shanghai cityscapes
« Reply #2 on: October 28, 2010, 10:05:49 am »

mich

All right, I'll stick my neck out and respond. It does help that you have explained the context for both these pictures, and something of their intended purpose. My first reaction to both of them was that, on my monitor at least, they looked rather dull and gloomy and had very little "pop".  I would have waited for better light and more interesting skies.

* Picture #1 is particularly flat. In fact an awful lot of the frame is filled with a mass of mid-gray, with very little tonal interest or variety. Too much 18% gray river and not a lot else. The chimneys in the far distance are really nice, but they don't save the shot.

* Picture #2 is a much more interesting picture and has a better tonal balance and variety. Reflections always help. But the composition somehow seems uneasy, although the object (fishing net?) is interesting. I would have made that my subject and "walked the shot" a bit more till things came together. And for some reason the image still looks a bit flat, probably because the light is just not magical.

If these are B/W conversions from colour digital files then I would work a bit more on that part of the process.

John
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Rob C

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Re: Two similar suburban Shanghai cityscapes
« Reply #3 on: October 28, 2010, 04:57:25 pm »

Okay, Jenn.

If it's a series, then it's not necessary for each shot to work on its own; the individual may appear weak on its own but mean something very much else within the context of the story, as will the look of the printing and everything else; tonality is just another tool to use within that story; folks here will judge it all on pictorialist convention. Think of W. Eugene S; how would his stark recreation of reality and grime go down in a landscape mindset!

But it's got to be your series out of your own head; what do we know about it? That's always my problem with people asking for opinion.They have to know for themselves, or the whole thing is meaningless. And let's face it: from your body of work, you don't need anybody else to add their penny. You already know what you are doing and why. If not why, you will see it one day and wonder why you were so blind of yourself.

Rob C
« Last Edit: October 29, 2010, 04:23:10 am by Rob C »
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wolfnowl

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Re: Two similar suburban Shanghai cityscapes
« Reply #4 on: October 28, 2010, 05:04:01 pm »

Well?  It's been mostly said already, but I thought (as with any image) it depends on the context you were reaching for here.  The first one shows a primarily urban environment, but there are those huge smokestacks in the background.  So are the workers living in that housing?  Is the exhaust from the stacks affecting the general health of the population? (yes)... In the second image the nets are more prominent, so is it about urban sprawl - is this the edge of a city encroaching on what was once a fishing village, or are the people living there augmenting their income with fish or...?

Back story always helps to understand an image, but without it an image needs to answer the questions it asks or be self-evident in its message.  The difficulty with that is that everyone will see it differently.

Mike.
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John R Smith

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Re: Two similar suburban Shanghai cityscapes
« Reply #5 on: October 29, 2010, 04:08:34 am »

tonality is just another tool to use within that story; folks here will judge it all on pictorialist convention. Think of W. Eugene S; how would his stark recreation of reality and grime go down in a lanscape mindset!


Well, Rob, it is the Luminous Landscape forum, although these days it is a pretty broad church. I too shoot an awful lot of photographs which are never intended to stand alone - they are conceived as illustrations for my written text in books or articles in journals, etc. The vast majority of them are simply routine with the prime criteria being that you must be able to see the subject clearly, and with no claim whatsoever to artistic or aesthetic quality. They do the job, and you can pick up a copy of my "Cornwall's China-Clay Heritage" in our local W H Smiths, for example. However, I would not generally bother to post those pictures of mine on a site like this, because outside of the context of my book they have very little merit.

John
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Rob C

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Re: Two similar suburban Shanghai cityscapes
« Reply #6 on: October 29, 2010, 04:25:37 am »

Well, Rob, it is the Luminous Landscape forum, although these days it is a pretty broad church. I too shoot an awful lot of photographs which are never intended to stand alone - they are conceived as illustrations for my written text in books or articles in journals, etc. The vast majority of them are simply routine with the prime criteria being that you must be able to see the subject clearly, and with no claim whatsoever to artistic or aesthetic quality. They do the job, and you can pick up a copy of my "Cornwall's China-Clay Heritage" in our local W H Smiths, for example. However, I would not generally bother to post those pictures of mine on a site like this, because outside of the context of my book they have very little merit.

John


Quite, and Jenn says they are part of a story... they need the complete context if meant to be judged.

Rob C

stamper

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Re: Two similar suburban Shanghai cityscapes
« Reply #7 on: October 29, 2010, 06:19:01 am »

Quote michswiss.

I'm also willing to accept that both images are basically crap.

Unquote

Your images aren't crap. I would describe them as good documentary type images that if they are put into the public domain will in a couple of decades be appreciated for what they are. Images that people will look at and will remember, if they know the place, and cherish. I don't think however they are best suited to a critique??? As stated in previous posts if they are part of a series and all of the series can be seen then their worth will be appreciated for what they are. :)

RSL

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Re: Two similar suburban Shanghai cityscapes
« Reply #8 on: October 29, 2010, 10:56:30 am »

Jennifer, Your people pictures are excellent.
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MrSmith

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Re: Two similar suburban Shanghai cityscapes
« Reply #9 on: October 30, 2010, 07:57:50 pm »

i'll stick my neck out and say they don't do anything for me, if there is some subtext there about interiors/exteriors i'm not getting it because there is nothing visually interesting to get my attention.
i then looked at your 'street' images, these are in a different league almost as if they were shot by a different photographer.
i looked at all 9 pages (that's a compliment from somebody with a short attention span) some great images there.
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GEOFFREYJAMES

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Re: Two similar suburban Shanghai cityscapes
« Reply #10 on: October 30, 2010, 11:04:59 pm »

I find the the first is more interesting.  It's the smokestacks that make it, although you are a bit tentative about relating them to the canal and the housing. A bridge further down and it would be perhaps a stronger situation.   Strange to say but  the massive brutal modernization of China seems to have  given way to a new form of the  picturesque:  Gursky,  Burtynsky, Greg Girouard.  Don't know if you know the books.
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John R

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Re: Two similar suburban Shanghai cityscapes
« Reply #11 on: October 30, 2010, 11:57:25 pm »

Quote michswiss.

I'm also willing to accept that both images are basically crap.

Unquote

Your images aren't crap. I would describe them as good documentary type images that if they are put into the public domain will in a couple of decades be appreciated for what they are. Images that people will look at and will remember, if they know the place, and cherish. I don't think however they are best suited to a critique??? As stated in previous posts if they are part of a series and all of the series can be seen then their worth will be appreciated for what they are. :)
I think I concur with stamper's comments in general. It is not always necessary to depict a subject in glowing terms. I see the landscapes as representative of a place. They may not be great works of art by themselves, but they succeed in describing a place. As in life, most of our photos are like this. We just don't show them.
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Mark Anderson

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Re: Two similar suburban Shanghai cityscapes
« Reply #12 on: January 17, 2011, 03:33:40 pm »


I'm looking for feedback on whether the images themselves work and additionally what each communicates to you. 

I really like the top image. I'm reacting to the emotional message that image communicates to me. I think it conveys an awful lot about contemporary life in China today, the extreme pace of urbanization, and could only work in black and white.

I looked at these when you first posted them, almost three months ago now, but didn't post a reply then. I suppose the fact that the first image is still resonating with me should tell you how well that image works for me.

And so what do I get out of it? The apartment blocks to the right are a fair representation how many Chinese live today, in large replicating blocks of apartment buildings. And I suspect the people who live there have reasonable jobs and reasonable incomes. Some of them will have migrated from rural villages to the big city, this is now their life.

So life in those apartments represents having "made it" in today's China, and likely represent a fairly good life. But the urban setting in the image seems to be bleak, even soulless.

China has one of the lengthiest continuous histories of any civilization in the world, and the Chinese are justly proud of that past. Today's China, however, almost seems like a culture without any history at all, perhaps in part because of the pace of change, and the degree of dislocation from rural to urban experienced by many Chinese. Shanghai in 1950 had, I believe, about 5 million residents. Today it has 20+ million. This rate of urbanization is repeated in one city after another throughout China, and the most recent estimate I've see is that 175 cities in China are at 1 million residents or greater.

So, I feel that there is a lot of cultural alienation within China, and in a small way, that this photo captures that for me.

Mark
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michswiss

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Re: Two similar suburban Shanghai cityscapes
« Reply #13 on: January 18, 2011, 05:33:26 pm »


So, I feel that there is a lot of cultural alienation within China, and in a small way, that this photo captures that for me.

Mark

Mark, you summed up nicely many of my thoughts and reactions to the pace of change and urbanization in modern China.  I'm glad the image conveyed some of that.  For good or ill, I don't think my journey with China is finished.  I hope to have the chance to continue to explore these dynamics in other cities around the country.
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