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Author Topic: Printer short term colour stability  (Read 3083 times)

Ryan Grayley

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Printer short term colour stability
« on: October 21, 2010, 01:04:29 pm »

As a result of discussions with one of my customers I have been trying to understand the significance of short term colour stability of proofs and prints produced on Large Format inkjet printers. I have an Epson 7900 and an HP Z3200 so I am particularly interested in how these compare but I am also interested in the latest Canons such as the ipF6300.

The three manufactures make the following statements:

HP: "Short term color stability < 1 dE2000 in less than 5 minutes"
http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/us/en/sm/WF06b/18972-18972-3328061-12600-3328079-3737540-3737543-3737547.html

Canon: "LUCIA EX pigment inks exhibit excellent short-term color drift ("dry-down") behavior"
http://www.usa.canon.com/cusa/about_canon/products?pageKeyCode=pressreldetail&docId=0901e02480134553

Epson: "Outstanding short-term color stability"
http://www.epson.com/_alfresco/proimaging/products/StylusPro79009900/downloads/7900_9900_brochure_v1.pdf
http://ionaca.com/images/espx900stability.png

I don't have much knowledge in this field but the Color Wiki suggests that a delta of less than 1.0 is not worth worrying about.
http://www.colorwiki.com/wiki/Delta_E:_The_Color_Difference

However, the Epson graph suggests that Ultrachrome HDR inks take about four hours for the delta to reduce to 1.0 while HP claim that the Z3200 Vivera inks take only 5 minutes to drop to a delta of less than 1.0 (I haven't been able to find any Canon data.)

If the data from Epson and HP is valid and comparable then it implies that the HP Z3200 would be a far more practical solution when proofing. I can't imagine that any of my artist customers would be able to come back every four hours to view each hard proof whereas a 5 minute wait for the HP proofs would be no problem for them.

So how can Epson HDR inks be a realistic proposition for proofing when the client wishes to be involved while he/she waits?
And what about Canon? Is there any delta data for Lucia short term stability?

Ryan Grayley
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Ryan Grayley BA IEng MIET ARPS
RGB Arts Ltd, London, UK

digitaldog

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Re: Printer short term colour stability
« Reply #1 on: October 21, 2010, 01:19:31 pm »

My experience with Canon and Epson is you want to let them dry down if you are doing anything like building a profile etc. While the average deltaE values may be low, its the max deltaE values that are important here. Sure, the average deltaE may be 1, and that has a lot to do with how many patches you measured. But if the one max deltaE patch is 5, not so good. Viewing the print shouldn’t be a big deal here, but measuring to build a profile? Let em dry a few hours at the very least.

I suspect the papers will play a role here too.
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Wayne Fox

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Re: Printer short term colour stability
« Reply #2 on: October 21, 2010, 02:35:32 pm »

From the way I read the Epson chart, it appears to me that worse case scenario would be a shift of 1.7 delta/E for blues, with some other colors slightly less.  As you mentioned after about 4 hours it appears any remaining shift would be less than 1.  Wondering whether that is across the board (all blues) or is it just highly saturated ones?

I guess the question is how much of a shift is actually perceptible.  While the theory is anything less than 1 is indistinguishable which implies anything over 1 is, in practice it seems 1.7 is a pretty low number as well.  So even after five minutes I'm not sure you can see a difference, and many factors would affect that.

Have you tried a "test"?  Maybe print out a profile test target, then print another one a few days later.  Visually compare the two after five minutes, 15 minutes etc.  You could even try reading them, but that's probably not too reliable since delta E variations of 1 or even greater are pretty common unless you have a really high end device.

I've never paid much attention to this, but then I don't do any proofing. and with landscape images the change would be irrelevant.  I can see if you are doing critical color matching, such as in reproducing art work, it could be important.
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digitaldog

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Re: Printer short term colour stability
« Reply #3 on: October 21, 2010, 02:41:17 pm »

The spec’s don’t tell you the full story. You could have a color (patch) with a very high max deltaE that’s a mix of several inks! Just showing single inks isn’t telling enough.

The way to test this is easy if you have the equipment and software. Decide what target you want to use, its color space (just within printer gamut, a target of making a profile). The number of total patches will of course affect the average delta report. Then measure right out of the printer and over a time span, pop into ColorThink and get a report. But more importantly, sort by deltaE so you can see the worst offender(s), what color mixes they are, how many are above what you feel is an acceptable deltaE.
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Ernst Dinkla

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Re: Printer short term colour stability
« Reply #4 on: October 21, 2010, 03:59:34 pm »

I guess Fogra certification documents for proofing papers/printers are the best source for comparing aspects like that.

HP Z's integrated calibration / profiling in practice depends a lot on fast stabilisation of the colors. There's a choice to measure profile targets later but I have not seen much difference between profiles made in both ways. But proofing is not the job I do.


met vriendelijke groeten, Ernst Dinkla

spectral plots of +100 inkjet papers:
http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
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MHMG

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Re: Printer short term colour stability
« Reply #5 on: October 21, 2010, 04:40:26 pm »

I can't imagine that any of my artist customers would be able to come back every four hours to view each hard proof whereas a 5 minute wait for the HP proofs would be no problem for them.

So how can Epson HDR inks be a realistic proposition for proofing when the client wishes to be involved while he/she waits?

Ryan Grayley

Short term color drift is a very significant issue with dye-based inkjet printers. The color can take days or even weeks to settle which is why dye based inkjet printers have fallen out of favor for graphic arts proofing applications. By comparison, all of the latest aqueous pigment sets from Canon, HP, and Epson, settle to a final color state quite quickly and, IMHO, short term drift is comparable for the Hp Vivera, Epson K3/K3VM/HDR, and Canon Lucia/LuciaEX ink sets.  AFAIK, there is no standardized ISO or ASTM short term color drift test, so the manufacturers are pretty much free to measure the phenomenon as they see fit, and thus their different approaches may translate to market speak that makes the performance among these ink sets sound more different than it really is.

As digital dog noted, for building profiles you would conservatively want to give a printed target the benefit of a few hours drying time (and, ideally average your readings over more than one target sample), but otherwise, typical print-to-print variability and even spectrophotometer measurement repeatability are likely to introduce as much error in the measurement of individual print color values as the short term drift component in these pigmented ink systems. Moreover, Delta E equations were designed for side-by-side solid-fill color patch viewing conditions where the color difference between two swatches is being judged solely for color's sake. Real images typically present a far more complex array of color and tone patterns to the viewer and under these conditions people judge individual colors in context with the surrounding colors and tones. The oft-quoted visual discrimination threshold of delta E =1 relaxes greatly in the delta a*b* component for increasingly higher chroma colors in complex scenes while delta L* = 1 deviations between neighboring tonal values may still wreak havoc with subtle but important tonal contrast gradients in an image. Hence, image color and tone reproduction accuracy truly deserves an entirely different evaluation method than simple delta E metrics (pick any flavor, delta E, delta E CMC, delta E2000, etc) which otherwise work quite well, for example, when trying to match two batches of paint or solid-color fabric samples .

I would qualify these remarks further by also saying that the short term dry-down issue is of more concern to proofs and actual press runs involving spot colors like matching a corporate color, say Coca Cola Red or John Deere Green. In this application, delta E equations are reasonably valid because the spot colors are being judged once again in side-by-side isolation rather than as specific information content residing in a photorealistic image. The corporate client may contractually demand precise colorimetric matching of a particular spot color, and the final color may actually be getting handled on press with a custom blended spot color ink rather than trying to reproduce with CMYK process color. But for the vast majority of artists seeking a high quality fine art reproduction or photographers seeking a pleasing translation of digital image file to hard copy print? Any short term dry-down color drift errors on these pigmented ink printers are overwhelmed in comparison by the total overall color and tonal remapping which inevitably must occur and which invokes huge delta E variations between original image colors/tones and final print colors/tones. ;D

regards,
Mark
http://www.aardenburg-imaging.com
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shewhorn

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Re: Printer short term colour stability
« Reply #6 on: October 25, 2010, 11:59:17 pm »

I think Scott Martin did some more in depth tests with the Canon x300 series. I have an 8300 and I have to say it dries quite fast. I had a chart (1728 patches) that I started to read in about 35 minutes after printing (the reason I say started is because I used a Spectroscan/Spectrolino and 1728 patches can take a while) and then again about 2 hours after that and the average dE was 0.09 with a max dE of 0.26. What does that mean? Not much as I wasn't really scientific about anything, just throwing some numbers out there.

With the x300 my observation has been that the dry time is SIGNIFICANTLY shorter than the x100. I also have a 6100 and you can tell quite a dramatic difference between a fresh print, and one that's had a day to dry (especially with matte papers). That said I like to let my charts sit overnight before I read them in if I'm building a profile profile. :) If I'm just running quick tests I let them sit for 30 minutes.

One of these days maybe I'll run a small, quick to read chart (340ish patches) and read it in at 30 minute or 1 hour increments to get more solid data.

Cheers, Joe
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