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Author Topic: Tint slider  (Read 7584 times)

knweiss

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Tint slider
« on: October 19, 2010, 03:03:16 pm »

Why is the "Tint" slider in Lightroom's Develop module necessary? According to the online help it "Fine-tunes the white balance to compensate for a green or magenta tint". But what's the technical background? Why green and magenta? Did you ever have to use it?
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NikoJorj

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Re: Tint slider
« Reply #1 on: October 19, 2010, 03:43:52 pm »

Yes, there can be some correction on that axis : the best example would be fluorescent light, take the same yellow/blue offset as tungsten and add a truckload of magenta to counter the green tint.
Another example would be in the shade, under foliage.
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knweiss

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Re: Tint slider
« Reply #2 on: October 26, 2010, 12:45:54 pm »

Thanks for your reply. However, it still seems so arbitrary to me.
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Costas

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Re: Tint slider
« Reply #3 on: October 26, 2010, 02:34:32 pm »

Thanks for your reply. However, it still seems so arbitrary to me.

Not sure how arbitrary it really is, suspect it refers back to working in "LAB colour" where you have luminosity then channel a which is green/magenta and channel b which is blue/yellow. Wonder if that relates to how the RAW file is mapped before conversion to RGB ?

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Schewe

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Re: Tint slider
« Reply #4 on: October 26, 2010, 03:09:23 pm »

However, it still seems so arbitrary to me.

Not at all. I suggest you do some reading about color temperature. If you did you would realize that color temp is not a straight line but an arc (Planckian locus). So to properly white balance requires another axis to adjust.

And no, it's NOT related the Lab...Lab is a color space, Kelvin is a unit of measurement.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2010, 03:13:56 pm by Schewe »
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nma

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Re: Tint slider
« Reply #5 on: October 26, 2010, 03:28:12 pm »

Not at all. I suggest you do some reading about color temperature. If you did you would realize that color temp is not a straight line but an arc (Planckian locus). So to properly white balance requires another axis to adjust.

And no, it's NOT related the Lab...Lab is a color space, Kelvin is a unit of measurement.

Jeff,

Please explain more. When I do click white balance on a neutral feature, it adjusts color temp and tint. So, how should I know when to try a different "click" versus adjusting tint?

Thanks
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Schewe

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Re: Tint slider
« Reply #6 on: October 26, 2010, 03:59:29 pm »

Assuming the light grey or white patch you click on is indeed neutral, you don't have to do anything else. If you wish to modify the technically accurate white balance rendering after, then that's a visual adjustment. Just adjust the color temp and tint to your liking.
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neile

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Re: Tint slider
« Reply #7 on: October 26, 2010, 04:15:54 pm »

The temp and tint sliders are directly related to subtractive CMY colour theory.

Adjusting the temp slider gives you the obvious "more blue" or "more yellow" adjustment. This is also known as the "temperature" of the light, either cool (blue) or warm (yellow). Adjusting the tint slider gives you "more green" or "more magenta". In combination with the temp slider you can also do "more cyan" or "more red".

Between the two sliders you can account for any global colour cast in your image. If you only had temp available you could only account for blue/yellow cast. You couldn't deal with green, magenta, cyan, or red. All the "white balance" tool does is try to dial in a temp and tint value for you that will make your neutrals, uh, neutral. But you can season to taste or do it yourself by manipulating both sliders.

If you were in the colour film darkroom working with an enlarger head you'd be working with the exact same variables. Each enlarger head has a yellow and magenta filter pack, and to get rid of the colour cast in your print you'd dial in different amounts of yellow and magenta to address the issue.

I still have a Kodak print viewing kit that you use when doing colour film prints to decide what adjustment to dial in. If you think your image is too cyan and needs more red you'd hold up the red test filter in front of your print to see the effect. Then you'd go into the darkroom, dial in the right amount of yellow and magenta, and do another print. Then you'd repeat many, many, times until it was right :)

Lightroom makes it a lot easier, but it's still the same concept. In fact, I still use my Kodak filters in front of the computer screen. It's pretty nice to sit back and say "hmm, I think this image is too cyan" and then hold the red filter up to see if I'm right!

Neil
« Last Edit: October 26, 2010, 04:19:07 pm by neile »
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Schewe

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Re: Tint slider
« Reply #8 on: October 26, 2010, 05:20:51 pm »

The temp and tint sliders are directly related to subtractive CMY colour theory.

No, actually it doesn't...read the link about color temperature. Since the warmer/cooler is NOT a linear progression in KelvinÂș, color temp does NOT directly relate to either additive nor subtractive primary color theory. It's different...
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Tint slider
« Reply #9 on: October 26, 2010, 05:30:09 pm »

... Why green and magenta? ...

Asking "why green and magenta" (in addition to yellow and blue) is like asking what salt & paper are doing on the table, when oil & vinegar are already there. ;)

Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: Tint slider
« Reply #10 on: October 26, 2010, 07:13:45 pm »

No, actually it doesn't...read the link about color temperature. Since the warmer/cooler is NOT a linear progression in KelvinÂș, color temp does NOT directly relate to either additive nor subtractive primary color theory. It's different...

That's correct. The 'tint' control offers an adjustment that is perpendicular to the curved 'Planckian/Black body' color temperature locus in chromaticity diagrams. It is an adjustment along the 'Correlated Color Temperature' (CCT) isotherms.

Cheers,
Bart
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neile

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Re: Tint slider
« Reply #11 on: October 26, 2010, 10:53:12 pm »

Thanks for the clarification, Jeff. Long time no chat, BTW :)

Neil
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stamper

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Re: Tint slider
« Reply #12 on: October 27, 2010, 03:57:22 am »

I don't see the point in getting too technical about this. On this forum, and others, I see people getting too hung up about this subject. For instance in Nik Capture you can't adjust the as shot setting and have to choose another such as daylight to make adjustments. One poster on another site wasn't a happy bunny about this. The bottom line - IMHO - is adjust to taste and don't worry about WHY it works. :)

Philmar

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Re: Tint slider
« Reply #13 on: October 27, 2010, 10:59:22 am »

The Tint slider can also be used for creative purposes though not much in landscape photography. Altering the tint of a shot can alter the 'mood' slightly.

knweiss

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Re: Tint slider
« Reply #14 on: November 01, 2010, 06:23:07 am »

Thanks to all. Esp to Jeff for the Planckian locus hint. This turned out to become the informative thread I had hoped for! However, I have one more question: From my personal experience I adjust the color temp very often but almost never had the desire to adjust the tint. Do you often adjust tint or is there a reason why tint isn't as useful as temp in practice?
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Ken Bennett

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Re: Tint slider
« Reply #15 on: November 01, 2010, 07:23:52 am »

Thanks to all. Esp to Jeff for the Planckian locus hint. This turned out to become the informative thread I had hoped for! However, I have one more question: From my personal experience I adjust the color temp very often but almost never had the desire to adjust the tint. Do you often adjust tint or is there a reason why tint isn't as useful as temp in practice?

I suppose that depends on the kind of work you do, or perhaps how well your camera handles Auto White Balance. I shoot a lot indoors, with all kinds of odd lighting fixtures, and often use the Tint slider to dial in the proper color.

If I were shooting outdoor landscapes only, I might not ever touch that slider (though adding some Magenta to a dusk sky can do wonders.)
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sniper

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Re: Tint slider
« Reply #16 on: November 02, 2010, 04:11:14 am »

As a wedding photographer I'm another who often has to shoot in mixed or "odd" colour lighting, I frequently use the tint to help correct colour casts, fluorescent or low energy bulbs often have a green/ magents colour issue.
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