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Author Topic: About business and a name...  (Read 2500 times)

Morris Taub

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About business and a name...
« on: October 18, 2010, 09:28:23 am »

Say I started a business in 2005 called Sunshine Landscapes...and all I did was buy the domain name sunshinelandscapes.com and I started a website where I could sell my landscape photos but I also offered t-shirts or caps with Sunshine Landscapes on them for promo...

then, five or ten years down the line someone else comes along and starts a website called sunshinephotography and they buy that domain, sunshinephotography.com but they also buy rights, buy say copyright using that name...and they want to sell photography and also market t-shirts and caps as promo items...

can the company that came along later ask the older company to cease doing business under sunshine landscapes because in America or in europe they registered their name?...

I’m just wondering if legally the first company, sunshinelandscapes, has any rights because their presence, name, domain, products, etc. were on the internet for years before even though they didn’t register or copyright the name of their company and the products they sell?...

I guess I’m wondering if a person could buy another companies name out from under them?...I wonder if the law would see the company that came along later as a business that saw the first companies work, copied the idea, changed the name slightly and then tries to force that company out of business...because these days with the internet it's easy to do a yahoo or google search and see if someone is doing business under a certain name on the internet...

I keep reading things like this, below in bold, which suggest it's prudent to pay for registration, but not necessary if one can prove they own the name, art, whatever...I'd think with webhosts having dates about domain names, pages uploaded, etc. it would be relatively easy to prove who did what first...

ok, go ahead, tell me, I'm I being completely naive...am i uninformed?...can you point me at a site with simple english that explains how this stuff might work?...

thanks in advance...

"Why is it advisable to register a work?

If you have created a work which has value to you then you need to be able to protect it from being copied, stolen, or subject to other unauthorised use. To do this, you need to be able to prove that you are the rightful owner of the work. If someone else publishes your work under their name then they will be assumed to be the rightful copyright-holder, unless you can prove otherwise. Registering your work through the CRS provides independent third-party verification of your ownership of your work, helping to protect your rights and avoid lengthy and/or unsuccessful legal proceedings. By displaying the CRS seal on your work, you can also discourage potential plagiarists from misappropriating your work."


Do I have to register with your office to be protected?
No. In general, registration is voluntary. Copyright exists from the moment the work is created. You will have to register, however, if you wish to bring a lawsuit for infringement of a U.S. work. See Circular 1, Copyright Basics, section “Copyright Registration.”

Gary Brown

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Re: About business and a name...
« Reply #1 on: October 18, 2010, 10:02:43 am »

The text you quoted is about copyrights, which aren't what you're looking for; to quote the Copyright Office FAQ:

How is a copyright different from a patent or a trademark?
“Copyright protects original works of authorship, while a patent protects inventions or discoveries. Ideas and discoveries are not protected by the copyright law, although the way in which they are expressed may be. A trademark protects words, phrases, symbols, or designs identifying the source of the goods or services of one party and distinguishing them from those of others.”

You'll want to read up on trademarks; see the USPTO Trademark “Where do I start?” page, where you'll probably want to start with the Basic Facts About Trademarks section and the Trademark FAQs.
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Morris Taub

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Re: About business and a name...
« Reply #2 on: October 18, 2010, 10:11:41 am »

Ok, thanks for the links Gary...

JohnKoerner

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Re: About business and a name...
« Reply #3 on: October 19, 2010, 04:58:47 am »

Is this a theoretical question or a question that involves something that has actually happened?

If it actually happened, and it directly involves your business and livelihood, you need to go to a Copyright or Trademark attorney and ask them. It would be inappropriate to ask such a question here on this forum, as it is not legal advice tailored to your specific problem and therefore is worth nothing. If you really are being asked to cease and desist your own company name and web presence, you should take this more seriously than an internet post in the Coffee Corner ...

JMHO,

Jack




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Morris Taub

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Re: About business and a name...
« Reply #4 on: October 19, 2010, 06:10:40 am »

Is this a theoretical question or a question that involves something that has actually happened?

If it actually happened, and it directly involves your business and livelihood, you need to go to a Copyright or Trademark attorney and ask them. It would be inappropriate to ask such a question here on this forum, as it is not legal advice tailored to your specific problem and therefore is worth nothing. If you really are being asked to cease and desist your own company name and web presence, you should take this more seriously than an internet post in the Coffee Corner ...

JMHO,

Jack


Hi Jack (John?)...I agree with you...and this is what I told my friend, as it's happening to her...

long story short : she lives in the US and has a site via Cafepress...sells very small quantities of clothing and stuff with illustrations on them, and she has some greeting cards with photos...she received an email from someone, I think in the UK, telling her to pull her site or merchandise, something like that...they registered a very similar name in the US and in europe...so they claim they own rights to it even though she's been using it for years...

so I suggested a lawyer and she said she doesn't make enough off the site to warrant the expense...that's when I started researching copyright stuff with her...I haven't thoroughly gone through the links that Gary supplied, but there too they seem to say you don't have to register if you can prove your dates etc...and I suppose the upload dates that could be provided by Cafepress would be sufficient, but again, I'm not sure...

I have contacted family in the states, trying to see if anyone knows a lawyer my friend could ask these questions to over the phone...kinda like free psychological counseling...

the situation is stressing her out...partly to start fresh again, and partly she feels bullied and doesn't like it...feels she has rights, etc...

ok, that's pretty much all i know at this point...

Ken Bennett

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Re: About business and a name...
« Reply #5 on: October 19, 2010, 08:34:57 am »

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Morris Taub

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Re: About business and a name...
« Reply #6 on: October 19, 2010, 09:31:43 am »

A similar story:

http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/tag/counterfeits/

Ken, thanks for the link...it's quite depressing, but better to deal with the reality I guess...not sure I'll send this to my friend just yet...I think she's depressed...

Oh, and the link at the end of the piece, to another fight about the knife producer in France, man, that's just wrong...it's hard to believe the law would be on that guys side...there's something wrong there, very wrong...maybe we need a kinder, gentler system?...i guess that would mean kinder and gentler people too...

thanks again...

Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: About business and a name...
« Reply #7 on: October 19, 2010, 10:00:36 am »

Ken, thanks for the link...it's quite depressing, but better to deal with the reality I guess...not sure I'll send this to my friend just yet...I think she's depressed...

While IANAL, I don't see the relevance of the article, other than that also a cease and desist attempt was produced.

Copyright has little to do with the situation. Trade mark law might have something to do with it, provided that a trade mark was registered for the appropriate geographical region. The names are different enough to avoid confusion, and perhaps the company colors etc. are also different enough to make confusion even less likely.

If from a formal legal standpoint there might be a potential conflict (and lawyers can probably dream up a scenario because they will benefit from it), then I'd register a trade mark for your own region right away, as in NOW. If that is accepted, which is only done after investigation (if instructed) by the registrar, then all seems fine and dandy to me. In fact if the other party keeps pushing, a cease and desist can be sent to them (which can get costly) should they want to get active on your soil.

Cheers,
Bart
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Morris Taub

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Re: About business and a name...
« Reply #8 on: October 19, 2010, 02:24:47 pm »

While IANAL, I don't see the relevance of the article, other than that also a cease and desist attempt was produced.

Copyright has little to do with the situation. Trade mark law might have something to do with it, provided that a trade mark was registered for the appropriate geographical region. The names are different enough to avoid confusion, and perhaps the company colors etc. are also different enough to make confusion even less likely.

If from a formal legal standpoint there might be a potential conflict (and lawyers can probably dream up a scenario because they will benefit from it), then I'd register a trade mark for your own region right away, as in NOW. If that is accepted, which is only done after investigation (if instructed) by the registrar, then all seems fine and dandy to me. In fact if the other party keeps pushing, a cease and desist can be sent to them (which can get costly) should they want to get active on your soil.

Cheers,
Bart

thanks Bart for this info...and your views...I checked registration of trademarks where I live in France and in the the US...about 1000 euros for the EU...seems only 325 or so for similar in the USA, but damn, it's confusing stuff...they talk about one 'class'...I have no idea what they're talkin' 'bout...some reading to do...it's boring and interesting at the same time...and maybe i can help my friend sort things out...but, she says she hasn't made much money via her site...doubt she'd be willing to pay for the registration...in the end I suspect she'd go with just picking another name...hmmm, and maybe risk the same scenario in a few years time...

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