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Author Topic: 9900 printhead replacement  (Read 18385 times)

GeneGT

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9900 printhead replacement
« on: October 13, 2010, 07:44:56 pm »

This morning on my usual morning nozzle check the green print head showed a 1/4 inch band of white. Printed perfectly yesterday. In service mode I did a CL1 cleaning for the green/orange. Then another. And another. Then  CL2. Then a CL4. No change. Naturally it's 2 and 1/2 months after the warranty expired. Called Epson Tech Support. The tech I spoke w said it was probably the print head. $1180 for the print head. $100 for travel, $175 per hour, probably for 3 or more hours. Anyway, that's the picture. My question is can I do the print head replacement myself? Is there a tech manual online? Can I screw up the printer? Probably.

thanks in advance, Gene
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JohnHeerema

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Re: 9900 printhead replacement
« Reply #1 on: October 13, 2010, 09:08:13 pm »

Epson's attitude is "interesting", given that one of the few supposed advantages of the 9900 over the Canon ipf 8300 is that the Epson print head is touted as being "permanent", instead of requiring occasional replacement.
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GeneGT

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Re: 9900 printhead replacement
« Reply #2 on: October 13, 2010, 09:28:48 pm »

That was my thinking also. The woman that called to set up a tech visit and give me the bad news about costs implied that print head failure wasn't all that rare. An irony is that with Epson's $1000 rebate I can spend a few hundred more than what this may cost and get a brand new 7900 and use all my inks. Just a thought.
Gene
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deanwork

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Re: 9900 printhead replacement
« Reply #3 on: October 13, 2010, 10:07:28 pm »

My God having to replace a head already on the 9900? What the .... This is the second time I've heard of this. They better take care of it. These are great heads  and should last many years. I'm still using my 9600 and 10 K and 7K original heads for odd bw work here. Never had an issue with any of the old Epson heads conking out unless you do something bad to them like put aluminum sheets through and have head strikes or something to bend them. You know those Canon heads aren't cheap either, not at all, though you can put them in yourself. The HP heads are the only inexpensive ones.

j
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Doombrain

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Re: 9900 printhead replacement
« Reply #4 on: October 14, 2010, 05:00:51 am »

Try an SSCL. this is a very powerful clean and will use some ink up. i wouldn't recommend doing more than 3 unless you start to see vast improvements. Make sure you leave a few hours inbetween doing the next SSCL.

power down > hold pause down > power on > wait for screen > find SSCL > Enter.
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GeneGT

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Re: 9900 printhead replacement
« Reply #5 on: October 14, 2010, 08:17:53 am »

Thanks, I'll try that. It's worth a try. Yeah, my 7600 is still printing fine w very few clogs. My 4000 is still printing fine, pretty loud and noisy tho w the usual frequent clogging. My Z3100 is still perfect tho it sleeps most of the time since I got the 9900.
Gene
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GeneGT

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Re: 9900 printhead replacement
« Reply #6 on: October 14, 2010, 03:11:53 pm »

SS Cleaning didn't work. Looks like I'll be biting some bullets.
Thanks for trying to help.

Gene
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JohnHeerema

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Re: 9900 printhead replacement
« Reply #7 on: October 15, 2010, 12:02:18 pm »

If I understand the problem you are experiencing, what has happened is that several hundred contiguously adjacent nozzles on the green channel only, have stopped firing. I believe that the probability of an ink clog developing overnight, which affects this many adjacent nozzles, but nothing else on the head, is essentially zero.

If that is the case, it seems that there are two possible causes: physical damage to a portion of the print head, or a manufacturing defect.

Physical damage is almost always due to a head strike, and would affect the ink channel at one of the two outboard edges of the head. I do not believe that the green channel is one of the two outboard channels, and in any event, your problem description does not mention a head strike.

That leaves us with a manufacturing defect. I can think of several manufacturing defects which would manifest themselves only after a period of several months, and which could produce the symptoms you are experiencing. For example, that section of the nozzle assembly may have come detached from the main print head body, due to an adhesive failure. Or that group of nozzles could fail to fire due to a cold solder junction failure. Or ... the list goes on. I do not know much about the inside of an Epson print head, but your problem description makes it clear that the problem is almost certainly a manufacturing defect.

An ethical company would fix their manufacturing defects, and apologize for the inconvenience they caused.

If we search this Luminous Landscape forum, it is easy to find a very large number of complaints by Epson customers that their 7900/9900 printers have clear manufacturing defects, but that Seiko Epson has adamantly refused to address them. There are also reports of outstanding Epson service, but these are in the minority. While the sampling method is less than unbiased, I get the impression that Seiko Epson is a company that doesn't care much about customer service at the top - in Japan. There some terrific people in Epson who buck the corporate culture, and provide good service anyway, but it's not the Epson way.

By comparison, if we do a similar search on Canon large-format printers, we see a very different distribution - the majority of reports are positive.

My own take on Epson's rise to prominence, is that they entered the market with a technically superior product. Since large-format printers are typically interested in having the best possible prints, Epson quickly came to dominate the large-format market. Epson was able to ignore customer service without major consequences. My bet is that if you were to ask any member of the Epson board about customer service, you'd get an answer something like "We have a dominant market position, so we must be doing something right".

I'm personally interested in what makes companies succeed, and what makes companies fail. I think I see an analogy here. In the pre-press market, a product called Quark Express used to be dominant. Like Epson, they had a product which was technically superior. But Quark's customer service was notoriously horrible.

This went on for years, until another player entered the market. Adobe's InDesign wasn't technically superior to Quark Express, but Quark's customers made the unwieldy switch in droves. There are still a few people using Quark Express, but when I talk to them, they generally say that they are planning to make the switch to InDesign. Quark has gone through some major corporate restructuring, but the really odd thing is that I'm told that their customer service is still horrible. My take is that looking down on customers became so much a part of the Quark culture, that it was impossible for them to change. Now it's too late for them.

Today, people remember the time that they used Quark as "the bad old days". My guess is that Epson is a lot like Quark - that they did well when they had a clearly superior product, but that the company has never learned how to create and maintain satisfied customers. I could be wrong - and since I just bought an Epson 9900, I sure hope that I'm wrong, but I wouldn't be surprised to see a comment on the Luminous Landscape forum in ten years from now, along the lines of "do you remember the bad old days, when we all used Epson printers, and just had to live with their bad service?".
 
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feppe

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Re: 9900 printhead replacement
« Reply #8 on: October 15, 2010, 12:11:23 pm »

If I understand the problem you are experiencing, what has happened is that several hundred contiguously adjacent nozzles on the green channel only, have stopped firing. I believe that the probability of an ink clog developing overnight, which affects this many adjacent nozzles, but nothing else on the head, is essentially zero.
[snip]

I've been following printer discussions for a while as I see a wide format printer in my future. Although I'm sure bad Epson experiences are disproportionately high due to high market share, there's no way in hell I'm going to buy an Epson after all the horror stories I've read. There are other factors as well, most ones that matter to me favor Canon.

Canon had a rough time with poor customer support when they entered the market, but apparently most of the teething problems with the printers and customer support were both fixed quite quickly.

deanwork

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Re: 9900 printhead replacement
« Reply #9 on: October 15, 2010, 03:44:39 pm »

I agree totally with both of you guys. These head/ink  issues are not random odd complaints. If you check out the yahoo large format list yesterday you will see a very similar story about support, only in this case a "defective ink cart" has caused pure hell with it's owner. There have been several reports of this issues also, and often by people who otherwise love the 9900 and it's capability.  Others have chimed in about several bad pressurized 9900 ink carts, and having to go through days of trouble just to get them to admit there was an issue then start the replacement process.  I don't know if they have ever admitted to a hardware defect. They rarely if ever do.

All of these companies have had their share of ignorance and arrogance when it comes to fixing bad design and fessing up to it, Canon's squirrelly drivers and HPs star wheel assembly in the beginning, and the poor Hitachi hard drives that last 2 years. I'm no engineer by a long shot but it just seems to me that Epson has rushed these new printers to market before the ink delivery system was completely beta tested. What is great about the Canon heads is their "redundant" nozzles that kick in whenever a clog (rare with thermal inks) is detected. This is a major attribute, was very smart and one of the best things that has come along since my beginnings in this inkjet situation 10 years ago.

I do remember Quark also, and those WERE the bad old days and they never admitted to real mistakes. The market has its way of working out this stuff.
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GeneGT

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Re: 9900 printhead replacement
« Reply #10 on: October 16, 2010, 08:21:33 am »

Thanks for the comments, guys. Guess I'll find out more next week. Actually customer service response was immediate, tho the representative made sure I knew what the costs might be.
Gene
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Mark D Segal

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Re: 9900 printhead replacement
« Reply #11 on: October 19, 2010, 10:05:54 pm »

Let us go back to the beginning of this discussion. If the print head is guaranteed for a year and it breaks down beyond that time period, Epson is under no obligation to replace it free of charge. It would be nice of them, but there is no obligation. So there really is no place for righteous indignation on that score.

No-one outside the company knows how many 7900/9900 printers they've sold and how many of them have experienced print head defects and therefore whether the defect rate is any higher than expected. Remember - there is no such thing as perfection and all those people who have satisfactory Epson printers are not the ones screaming about how happy they are in web forums, so to say the forum sample is biased is a masterpiece of under-statement.

I have a hard time relating to rants against Epson's service, because in my experience through three professional printers it has been by far the best of any of the major manufacturers of photographic equipment I have dealt with over the past ten years, and colleagues inform me likewise of their experience. That said, I haven't needed service for quite a while, but in a market as competitive as this one is, service is one of the major factors which differentiates them and I would be both surprised and disappointed to learn - factually - that they no longer value this credential.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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David Duchesne

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Re: 9900 printhead replacement
« Reply #12 on: October 20, 2010, 07:44:23 pm »

  In another recent thread in Luminous landscape, I have been asking who are the service providers in Canada?  No one answered--not one!!!!!.  Is it that the need is rare?  No one suggested a good company to get a tech to travel to New Brunswick, Canada, and service my printer, a 2.5 year old 9880.  I have heard some horror stories about multiple visits and the problem continuing.  I am looking for informed comments.  Maybe epson support is poor in Canada.  Do you go to Epson Canada or the company that sold you the printer?  I know the cost will be over $1000 so I need the experience of others before I order in a tech.   
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Mark D Segal

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Re: 9900 printhead replacement
« Reply #13 on: October 20, 2010, 08:10:37 pm »

David:

Call Epson Canada, 3771 Victoria Park Avenue
Toronto, Ontario
M1W 3Z5
(416) 498-9955

and ask them who services that model in New Brunswick.

I've had very good service from their authorized service rep here in Toronto. Epson does not service printers themselves in Canada.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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natas

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Re: 9900 printhead replacement
« Reply #14 on: October 20, 2010, 08:39:27 pm »

Good luck to you man. I have had my 7900 for about 4 months and recently have had clogged nozzles on the cyan channel. Today I cleaned that channel 4 times and nothing helped. Called epson and they had me do the Power clean, this fixed my issue....but man I just lost a crap load of ink over this.
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Mark D Segal

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Re: 9900 printhead replacement
« Reply #15 on: October 20, 2010, 08:51:28 pm »

It is not good practice to run four cleaning cycles in a row. The appropriate procedure is to run one cleaning cycle and a nozzle check. If that doesn't work, run a regular print. Then run another cleaning cycle. If there are still missing elements, then run another print, followed by another regular cleaning cycle. Keep doing this up to about six times or so before invoking power clean. The reason is that the problem may not be a nozzle clog. It could be trapped air. If you run one cleaning after another without printing a regular letter-size image in-between cleaning cycles, this can aggravate the problem. A senior technician from Epson America explained this to me quite a while back, and for as long as I was using the 4000/4800 series, this advice served me well. Power Cleaning really is a huge ink consumer so one wants to avoid it as much as possible. Since I started using my 3800 several years ago, I have not experienced any "clogging" which didn't clear-up after one normal cleaning cycle. Interestingly, these machines clean themselves on a cycle determined in the firmware, and it is usually after the self-cleaning that the nozzle check shows problems, requiring one more cleaning cycle. And there is no way to disable this behaviour in the firmware. Go figure!
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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natas

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Re: 9900 printhead replacement
« Reply #16 on: October 20, 2010, 08:55:32 pm »

It is not good practice to run four cleaning cycles in a row. The appropriate procedure is to run one cleaning cycle and a nozzle check. If that doesn't work, run a regular print. Then run another cleaning cycle. If there are still missing elements, then run another print, followed by another regular cleaning cycle. Keep doing this up to about six times or so before invoking power clean. The reason is that the problem may not be a nozzle clog. It could be trapped air. If you run one cleaning after another without printing a regular letter-size image in-between cleaning cycles, this can aggravate the problem. A senior technician from Epson America explained this to me quite a while back, and for as long as I was using the 4000/4800 series, this advice served me well. Power Cleaning really is a huge ink consumer so one wants to avoid it as much as possible. Since I started using my 3800 several years ago, I have not experienced any "clogging" which didn't clear-up after one normal cleaning cycle. Interestingly, these machines clean themselves on a cycle determined in the firmware, and it is usually after the self-cleaning that the nozzle check shows problems, requiring one more cleaning cycle. And there is no way to disable this behaviour in the firmware. Go figure!

This is actually really good advice and something I did practice.

I learned this method when I had issues with an r4800 years ago. I had one channel clogged and talked to epson. They had me run a clean, print nozzle check. After that, they had me print something with a ton of that color...so I basically made a blank doc and filled it with that color. The idea was to purge that air out.

The way the tech explained my issue today was a possible pressure issue. The tech explained that the power cleaning basically reset the pressure along with cleaning. I just hope this issue doesn't pop up again. They told me if it does they will send out a tech
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