Canson Platine roll paper waves (right angle to curle)

[nilo]

After using Cansons Platine Fiber Rag in sheets I started to use it from rolls. When I print the same picture with the same printer, right one after the other, the sheets come out fine and the roll paper shows a lot of waves (as an example something like 10 for 17" on a 3880/K3VM) which run in a right angle to the paper curl, along the print direction. Even letting the print hang out or under a stack of other papers does not help.


Any suggestion of what I might do wrong?


kind regards

nino

EDIT: BTW I am decurling the paper with my decurler, but the waves appear only once the paper has been printed and, again, they are in a right angle to the original curl.

[nilo]

that's how that looks like in the upper right corner of a 17" paper. For proportions of the wave see the magnet on top of the picture.

You might think that's because the paper is saturated with the black ink, but as I said, when printing the same file on the same paper but in sheet, that does not happen ?!

regards
nino

[Ernst Dinkla]

Print a sheet turned 90 degrees and see whether that one stays flat.
Any difference in printing speed/drying time between the sheet and roll printing?
No weight difference?
Cut a sheet off the roll, decurl and have it acclimatised before printing?


met vriendelijke groeten, Ernst Dinkla

spectral plots of +100 inkjet papers:
http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm

[nilo]

Print a sheet turned 90 degrees and see whether that one stays flat.

I'll try that, Ernst, though I do not understand the theory behind your suggestion.

Any difference in printing speed/drying time between the sheet and roll printing?
No weight difference?

No, I used the exact same settings with the same file. Once with 17" sheets and once with 17" roll paper cut to size. But I was wondering whether there actually is a difference between them that I was not aware of.

Cut a sheet off the roll, decurl and have it acclimatised before printing?

Do you mean to leave the paper out of any plastic for a couple of days, or how long?

regards

nino

[davidh202]

I'll try that, Ernst, though I do not understand the theory behind your suggestion. regards
nino

I believe what Ernst is suggesting is...
 like fabric, some paper may exhibit a warp and weft property and have a tendancy to expand or stretch in one direction more than the other when wetted.
 

[Ernst Dinkla]

4 hours should be enough. Print the same image in both directions. If you still see differences between roll and sheet then the roll media has other properties than the sheets. Measure the thickness of both. Check whether the backside of the sheet has another coating than the roll (wet finger), sometimes that is done to keep sheets flat. A barrier between the inkjet coating and paper base missing on the roll, image quality different?

I know, more questions than answers.


met vriendelijke groeten, Ernst Dinkla

Dinkla Gallery Canvas Wrap Actions for Photoshop
http://www.pigment-print.com/dinklacanvaswraps/index.html

[nilo]

I believe what Ernst is suggesting is...
 like fabric, some paper may exhibit a warp and weft property and have a tendancy to expand or stretch in one direction more than the other when wetted.
 

I hear David, but that should than be true for all sizes of sheets and rolls alike, which is not case with this 17" roll of Canson Platine.

regards
nino

[nilo]

4 hours should be enough.

I precut whole rolls into my standard sizes, so they get more than 4 hours to acclimatise.

Print the same image in both directions. If you still see differences between roll and sheet then the roll media has other properties than the sheets.

To turn a sheet cut from the roll by 90 degrees did not give me those waves, though, out of the printer, there was a general warping and buckling that might be due to the still wet paper!? I printed an image with a lot of black ink. Maybe there is a difference whether you let the paper dry laying flat in drawer or hanging with magnets, as tension can distribute differently?

Measure the thickness of both.

I can't do that.

Check whether the backside of the sheet has another coating than the roll (wet finger), sometimes that is done to keep sheets flat.

can't see any difference.

A barrier between the inkjet coating and paper base missing on the roll, image quality different?

from what I can tell they look identical.

I know, more questions than answers.

I want to believe that there is maybe a problem with one roll. Also nobody else reacted to this post, but then the 3880 is not supposed to use this roll paper...

Maybe you have some more of those questions.

regards
nino

[Ernst Dinkla]

Maybe there is a difference whether you let the paper dry laying flat in drawer or hanging with magnets, as tension can distribute differently?

Maybe you have some more of those questions.

regards
nino

Two things on the print direction. Papers like that are made on a Foudrinier and the grain/fiber is in the length of the roll. There could be tension on the roll for whatever reason but humidity changes in time that affected the roll could create that issue. The same can happen with reams of paper.

It is usually difficult to remove waves after they appear.


met vriendelijke groeten, Ernst Dinkla

Dinkla Gallery Canvas Wrap Actions for Photoshop
http://www.pigment-print.com/dinklacanvaswraps/index.html

[nilo]

Two things on the print direction. Papers like that are made on a Foudrinier and the grain/fiber is in the length of the roll. There could be tension on the roll for whatever reason but humidity changes in time that affected the roll could create that issue. The same can happen with reams of paper.

It is usually difficult to remove waves after they appear.


met vriendelijke groeten, Ernst Dinkla

Dinkla Gallery Canvas Wrap Actions for Photoshop
http://www.pigment-print.com/dinklacanvaswraps/index.html

So what would you advice me to do? If I understand you, it might be an issue with this specific roll/batch. Change to a roll from a different batch? Or let it be?

regards
nino

[Ernst Dinkla]

So what would you advice me to do? If I understand you, it might be an issue with this specific roll/batch. Change to a roll from a different batch? Or let it be?

regards
nino

more options:

reduce the ink load
print only high key images on it
report you problem to the company you got it from, you have a strong case with the sheets printing alright


met vriendelijke groeten, Ernst Dinkla

Try: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/

[nilo]

more options:

thanks again !

reduce the ink load
print only high key images on it
report you problem to the company you got it from, you have a strong case with the sheets printing alright

I can't wait to hear what they say...

regards
nino

[nilo]

I discovered that the waves are due to the stress on the roll paper caused by the decurling, which when wetted by the ink results in waves. The remedy for a sheet only printer is to decurl the paper just enough so that it'll feed through the printer without any problems (head strikes, miss alignment ...). When it comes  out of the printer and is still wet the paper must NOT be forced to stay flat. It has to be let drying in his natural state of curl. Once it's dry one can again apply some process to get rid of the residual curl.

I tried it a few times and it works. When printing the sheet turned 90 degrees I had done something similar but did attribute the absence of waves to the fact that I printed the paper in the other direction.

kind regards
nino

PS I wonder whether all Canson Platine rolls behave like that. I couldn't yet get hold of the guy who sells the Canson papers here.

[nilo]

The sails person for Canson, finaly decided to have a look on the Platine paper roll, and kindly came over to the studio to have take a few samples. BTW they do not seam to hold a lot off this tread, to which I pointed them. They didn't offer me any replacement till now.

regards
nino

I discovered that the waves are due to the stress on the roll paper caused by the decurling, which when wetted by the ink results in waves. The remedy for a sheet only printer is to decurl the paper just enough so that it'll feed through the printer without any problems (head strikes, miss alignment ...). When it comes  out of the printer and is still wet the paper must NOT be forced to stay flat. It has to be let drying in his natural state of curl. Once it's dry one can again apply some process to get rid of the residual curl.

I tried it a few times and it works. When printing the sheet turned 90 degrees I had done something similar but did attribute the absence of waves to the fact that I printed the paper in the other direction.

kind regards
nino

PS I wonder whether all Canson Platine rolls behave like that. I couldn't yet get hold of the guy who sells the Canson papers here.

[nilo]

The company that sells Canson here just ignores the problem. They came to take a sample more than a month ago. I called them a few times to get info about their findings: Nothing. Well, that's it for me with Canson, that's for sure. I already had to do with their bad profiles for the baryta photographique on a 3880 (see recent thread on that).

regards
nino

[Ernst Dinkla]

The company that sells Canson here just ignores the problem. They came to take a sample more than a month ago. I called them a few times to get info about their findings: Nothing. Well, that's it for me with Canson, that's for sure. I already had to do with their bad profiles for the baryta photographique on a 3880 (see recent thread on that).

regards
nino

The Platine isn't that special, there are similar qualities available from Hahnemühle, Sihl and others. Some Canson qualities have no less alternatives but Platine isn't one of them.


met vriendelijke groeten, Ernst Dinkla

spectral plots of +100 inkjet papers:
http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm