Canvas Finishes

[na goodman]

Has anyone tried both Glamour II and Clearstar Type C. If so, do you find the Clearstar Type C to be a tougher finish. And, do you find the Clearstar Gloss to be a glossier finish than Glamour. I have a client that wants me to try the Clearstar but I'm really happy with Glamour and how it applies. Any thoughts on comparing the two would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

[dgberg]

Nancy,
We use Glamor II , Timeless and Clearstar Fine Art Semi gloss.
Have done extensive testing and here is what we found.
The Glamor and Timeless are similar as far as final results are concerned. Both are excellent for spraying and rolling.
 Spraying all but eliminates any contaminates. Drying time for Timeless is considerably less then Glamor.
2 hours versus 4 to 6 for Glamor. Depends how much you want to push it.
Clearstar,here's the good and the bad. As a solvent based finish its solids are maybe 10% at best. In laymans terms out of every gal you spray 10% sticks and 90% evaporates,pretty dismal. Those really thin coats mean more coats are required to get the proper build.
With 25 years of custom cabinetry spraying experience I love any solvent finish. Drys quickly (5 minutes) Sheen stays pretty good across the board even with multiple coats.
For the canvas we spray with Clearstar.  We will spray it only on canvas that is going to be flat wet mounted to gatorboard. Even with 3 pretty heavy coats this finish does not have the elasticity that Glamor and Timeless has. When trying to stretch canvases sprayed with Clearstar we have ruined most if not all of the canvases we have tried. Take your fingers fold and put a sharp crease fold and it cracks through the ink every time. Unusable for this application. You are welcome to experiment and certainly could get better results but good luck. For the flat mounts it is unbeatable especially when you want something out the door quick. Cost is what it is but at an over priced $100 a gal. we use it mostly for workshop demos.

[na goodman]

Thanks Dan for your thoughts. I have tried Timeless and do not like the finish as much as Glamour or the way it sprayed on. Question, I thought the Clearstar Type C was water based. I'm looking for water base and not solvent. I do not want to use a solvent based spray. I really do like Glamour and have the application down pat. It's just that this client was talking to another artist at a show that uses the Clearstar Type C and said how durable it was and it got my client to thinking I should try it. And then again, maybe not.

[dgberg]

I have only used the Clearstar solvent as I also am very happy with the Breathing Color products. Maybe someone will chime in that has used the type c.
It may be suited more for stretching as I am sure the solids are much heavier in the water based product. We have found that when spraying Timeless that a build up of lighter coats almost elimanites the air bubbles. (The only negative with Timeless)
For us at least the time we save with Timeless's short dry time is worth an air bubble or two.

[Larry Adamache]

Dan

Do  you  have any comments on the UV protection of these coatings?  Have you tried the new BC matte coating?

Thanks
Larry

[dgberg]

Larry,
Clearstar advertises there coatings as having uv protection. Breathing Color just calls there products non yellowing.
We use no matte coatings by themselves as the silica creates such a flat finish that it destoys the print clarity.
We print pretty much with matte canvases and then control the sheen with mixtures of 20% matte 80%gloss or 30% matte 70% gloss to bring the sheen up. 2 coats of the Glamor II semi gloss
mixture on matte canvas makes a beautiful satin finish. The Timeless satin is a beautiful semi gloss finish and requries no mixing.
Someone else will have to chime in on using matte all by itself.

[Larry Adamache]

Dan
I've also used mixtures of Glamour II gloss & matte and have also found higher amounts of matte reduce the print clarity.   I assumed the non-yellowing referred to the coating itself and not to UV protection.

Breathing Color is now advertizing a new Timeless true "Matte" which is higher priced - this is the one I was referring to.   Also, BC now claim UV protection with the Timeless coatings which they didn't do with Glamour II.  It's a little confusing, so I was wondering if anyone has obtained any specific information from Breathing Color regarding UV protection with the various coatings.

[dgberg]

Larry,
They do say advanced uv protection with the Timeless so it sounds like progress in the right direction.
Have not tried the new Timeless matte but sounds like they are working hard to get a good matte to market.
Order a gal. and let us know how it works out.

[Bob Smith]

These discussions are somewhat less than meaningful unless you say what type of canvas and ink you're coating.  The finished "system" is what's important.  The same coating that's durable as can be on one canvas/ink can be extremely brittle on another.  For what it's worth I'm pleased with the look and durability of Glamour II or Premier Art Eco Shield on Epson Premium Canvas Satin with Ultrachrome inks.  I don't recall which it was but I know that I've used Glamour II on a different canvas that turned out to be extremely brittle.  Forget stretching.  The image could rub off with all but the most gentle handling.

Bob Smith

[dgberg]

Bob,
Glamor when sprayed or rolled will turn brittle when the canvas prints are not wrapped for an extended period of time. When I first started printing and mounting I thought I was being smart to print multiples of my favorite images. Sprayed them and put them in a print drawer. All were meant to be gallery wrapped and instead most were thrown out after 6 months. You could take a corner and try to fold it and the finish was exactly as you described.
You should always try and mount gallery wraps within a week of spraying for best results.
I've tested at least a dozen different canvases and have had zero compatability issues such as you describe. With timely wrapping.
What we use today. Epson 7900 and 9900 K3 Inksets. BC Cw,BC Lyve,Lexjet IDS,Lexjet Matte.  BC Glamor II,BC Timeless,Clearstar FA.

[na goodman]

I use BC Gloss with BC CW or Lexjet Matte and an Epson 9800, and 3800. I have never had any brittle canvas problems with Glamour. I used to mix gloss and a little matte to get a more of a satin finish but the gloss straight really isn't that glossy and my clients prefer it. With any top coat the glossier you go the harder the finish. I guess no one has tried the Clear Star Type C.

[Bob Smith]

Glamor when sprayed or rolled will turn brittle when the canvas prints are not wrapped for an extended period of time.

I know that wasn't the issue.  I never wait an extended period of time to wrap... 48 hours tops.  I'm pretty sure the issue was Glamour II on a non water resistant canvas.  Water based mixes on non WR canvases is where I've seen the most problems.  The instance I'm referring to was not subtle at all and definitely not caused by waiting to wrap.  I always apply by spraying.  In addition to my own experiences I've been reading various printing lists for ages and it's a common instance to see that coating A works great on a canvas B and is horrible on canvas C.  Ink, canvas, and coating have to be considered as a complete system.

Bob

[John Nollendorfs]

Another reason to stretch shortly after spraying with a water based top coating, is that the Canvas will tend to shrink. Best stretch it while it is still relaxed, so it will remain tight on the stretcher bars when humidity conditions are high.

John Nollendorfs

[Dward]

I use both Clearstar Type C and Glamour II, and I've found them both to work fine.   Neither is particularly brittle when stretched within 24 hours of printing, and both are brittle after just a few days (depending on humidity, etc.)

The major problem I have, as others have noted, is that canvas shrinks when printed, particularly in the long direction of the roll.   And it shrinks somewhat unpredictably, which makes it difficult to pre-order rigidly constructed stretchers.   So I print, spray, and measure as soon as the canvas is dry, and then have the stretcher delivered the next day (Don Mar is great for fast and reliable delivery in the PA/Conn./NJ/NY area).

David Ward, Ph. D.
www.dvward.com
David V. Ward Fine Art Photography

[na goodman]

Thank you for your response. Do you find the CleaStar to be any glossier or a more durable finish than the Glamour?