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Author Topic: >61MP image files for peepers  (Read 37982 times)

ced

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Re: >61MP image files for peepers
« Reply #20 on: October 02, 2010, 09:58:52 AM »

Presets: Meaning as they would if one were shooting a product: (pre-specified custom toning, colour, sharpening, noise/grain suppression for product photography) is what I gathered.
Also the image was the full size and compressed so the upload/download could be faster.
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Dick Roadnight

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Re: >61MP image files for peepers
« Reply #21 on: October 02, 2010, 10:06:42 AM »

Presets: Meaning as they would if one were shooting a product: (pre-specified custom toning, colour, sharpening, noise/grain suppression for product photography) is what I gathered.
Also the image was the full size and compressed so the upload/download could be faster.
...and if you pre-specify tooo much sharpening, can you un-ruin the picture (without just blurring it).
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ced

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Re: >61MP image files for peepers
« Reply #22 on: October 02, 2010, 10:30:18 AM »

You can do just what tickles your fancy...
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Nick Rains

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Re: >61MP image files for peepers
« Reply #24 on: October 02, 2010, 11:25:14 PM »

I think Yair said the the images were un-sharpened, or "default".

What's the point of specifying no sharpening? As if the default raw processor settings are anything meaningful. Images need to be be made as good as they can be. Best processing, best sharpening etc, anything else is meaningless. Different sensors need different sharpening methods to look their best - it's a common myth that 'default sharpening' is some sort of level playing field.
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ced

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Re: >61MP image files for peepers
« Reply #25 on: October 04, 2010, 07:49:57 AM »

All presets are dependant on result required, taste preferences and printing output play a major role in your decision. 
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John R Smith

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Re: >61MP image files for peepers
« Reply #26 on: October 04, 2010, 08:51:47 AM »

It seems to me, at just a gut level rather than through any forensic analysis, that both the Thames Embankment and the park scenes have had a fair bit of noise reduction applied to them. I think I can see the tell-tale artefacts. Also, although of course the size and detail are impressive, they do not appear to me to have the appealing "creamy" quality and edge contrast of my Hasselblad 39MP files, straight out of the camera. But of course the lens has a lot to do with that.

In fact, at the risk of ruffling a lot of feathers, I would say that my first thought on examining these two "landscape" shots was that they look like a load of somewhat ordinary digicam pictures all stitched together, rather than what I would expect from a MF camera. Just the "feel" of the thing, if you know what I mean.

John
« Last Edit: October 04, 2010, 09:13:46 AM by John R Smith »
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JonathanBenoit

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Re: >61MP image files for peepers
« Reply #27 on: October 04, 2010, 10:19:05 AM »

Yair sent me an email explaining that it was a pre-production back that was used for those photographs. The de-mosiacing algorithm will be tuned. I'm not sure if the odd noise pattern will be another fix, but we'll just have to wait for some examples from a proper back.
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tbosley

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Re: >61MP image files for peepers
« Reply #28 on: October 04, 2010, 10:52:38 AM »

Yair,
Thanks for providing the files!
Resolution is staggering and impressive.

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yaya

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Re: >61MP image files for peepers
« Reply #29 on: October 04, 2010, 12:30:32 PM »

It seems to me, at just a gut level rather than through any forensic analysis, that both the Thames Embankment and the park scenes have had a fair bit of noise reduction applied to them. I think I can see the tell-tale artefacts. Also, although of course the size and detail are impressive, they do not appear to me to have the appealing "creamy" quality and edge contrast of my Hasselblad 39MP files, straight out of the camera. But of course the lens has a lot to do with that.

In fact, at the risk of ruffling a lot of feathers, I would say that my first thought on examining these two "landscape" shots was that they look like a load of somewhat ordinary digicam pictures all stitched together, rather than what I would expect from a MF camera. Just the "feel" of the thing, if you know what I mean.

John

Thank for the feedback John, my feathers are still held firmly in place :)

I say :P to the digicam stitch analogy and I invite you to compare your creamy 39MP digicam to this "thing" as soon as your nearest Leaf dealer get their demo unit in a few weeks time

Cheers

yair

fredjeang

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Re: >61MP image files for peepers
« Reply #30 on: October 04, 2010, 12:45:53 PM »

Yair,

First and for most, thanks very much for the files.

Res is brillant as expected. I found the sharpening somewhere too pushed for my taste, and apparently it was setted in default, wich means everything and nothing at the same time.
Just the result is the result, and strangely I find the images "too detailed", I mean by that (sorry about my english) that render I wouldn't expect and that are closer to commercial gears, the lack of creamy John is talking about. Or I would say softness. Translating those samples into skin tones would be too much IMO.
It is like there where many images of a good dslr in one big image. Can't explain a better way.
I tried a quick huge upsample and would have liked to be able to control from less "agressive" sharp.

I guess this is a personal choice that works fine for Yair, and I'm not criticizing, specially when somebody take the time to provide samples. Those files are ONE possibility of what the back can acheive. So as always, best to rent one and do the testings with each personal approach and needs.

Cheers.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2010, 12:55:23 PM by fredjeang »
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Guy Mancuso

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Re: >61MP image files for peepers
« Reply #31 on: October 04, 2010, 01:52:28 PM »

The problem is and I have done this with pre-production P65+ back is it is pretty much radically different with the final shipping software.I could not even take the P65+ past ISO 100 at the time it simply was not ready for it. For me it does show some things right off he bat. It is here first of all, second it is a new 5.2 sensor that no one else has so this will be very interesting to see what is done with it on the Leaf but we all know this will find it's way into other backs in different configurations. Third the detail is there , now it may not look perfect at this point and I am going to just call it and say it will be different in look on final. The P65 was for sure on final, so we will have to see what happens there but the base of 80 mpx is showing and for some shooters that are looking that big holds a lot of promise. I think it is a good start and a thanks to Yair for getting us a look at them.


Keith was reading your post while I was writing mine. Simple answer because we want to see them and if nothing posted no one would believe it existed to start with. I have no problem with announcement images . I would have more problem with shipping final firmware images and looked like shit.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2010, 01:54:24 PM by Guy Mancuso »
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yaya

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Re: >61MP image files for peepers
« Reply #32 on: October 04, 2010, 01:56:32 PM »

Yair,

First and for most, thanks very much for the files.

Res is brillant as expected. I found the sharpening somewhere too pushed for my taste, and apparently it was setted in default, wich means everything and nothing at the same time.
Just the result is the result, and strangely I find the images "too detailed", I mean by that (sorry about my english) that render I wouldn't expect and that are closer to commercial gears, the lack of creamy John is talking about. Or I would say softness. Translating those samples into skin tones would be too much IMO.
It is like there where many images of a good dslr in one big image. Can't explain a better way.
I tried a quick huge upsample and would have liked to be able to control from less "agressive" sharp.

I guess this is a personal choice that works fine for Yair, and I'm not criticizing, specially when somebody take the time to provide samples. Those files are ONE possibility of what the back can acheive. So as always, best to rent one and do the testings with each personal approach and needs.

Cheers.


Thanks Fred,

The factory presets are geared towards commercial printing following nearly 50 years of experience in the pre-press business with Scitex, Creo and then Kodak. As such they provide the best "compromise" that gives the best results on paper. Sharpening wise they will generally look a tad too sharp on screen

The settings I've used are for product. The ones we have for portraits are smoother and of course you can tweak or disable them altogether.

We will have a camera for demonstrations at Fotoventas in Madrid next month so if you're there you'll be able to see it for yourself.

yair

fredjeang

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Re: >61MP image files for peepers
« Reply #33 on: October 04, 2010, 02:13:53 PM »



Yair, I'll be in Madrid at that date so yes. By the way, if you guys go to Madrid, don't miss the Mario Testino exhibition in the Thyssen museum.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2011, 10:42:09 AM by fredjeang »
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yaya

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Re: >61MP image files for peepers
« Reply #34 on: October 04, 2010, 03:00:29 PM »

Rule number 1

When linking to images that are intended to demonstrate image quality be sure that they are quality images.


...OK, the temptation was just too great.

...I won't bite, I won't bite, I won't bite, I won't bite, I won't....

Dick Roadnight

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Re: >61MP image files for peepers
« Reply #35 on: October 04, 2010, 03:18:46 PM »

What's the point of specifying no sharpening?
If the default setting over-sharpens for your taste or requirements, you would want to specify something different.

If you take portraits without remembering to change the setting from your landscape setting, it is nice to be able rectify your error by going back to the raw file and sharpening less.  
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fredjeang

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Re: >61MP image files for peepers
« Reply #36 on: October 04, 2010, 04:50:56 PM »

In all fairness to Yair and Leaf, showing a few files from the new Leaf back well before the shipping version is ready to buy is no different than being given the chance to see or try new software in demo phase. Its a nice privilege, a sneak peak, and also good for marketing the product by building some desire. Leaf has always had superb image output and I'm confident we'll see the same with the new back.

At least it's real and not vaporware or stuck behind glass.
What means vaporware? I need a better english translator
« Last Edit: March 30, 2011, 10:41:12 AM by fredjeang »
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John R Smith

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Re: >61MP image files for peepers
« Reply #37 on: October 05, 2010, 03:45:59 AM »

Thank for the feedback John, my feathers are still held firmly in place :)

I say :P to the digicam stitch analogy and I invite you to compare your creamy 39MP digicam to this "thing" as soon as your nearest Leaf dealer get their demo unit in a few weeks time

Cheers

yair

Yair

We are I am sure all grateful to you for posting these examples here on the LL Forum. And I didn't really mean to be rude about your whizzy new back. But I do spend just about every evening working on RAW files from my MF back in Lightroom, so by now I think I have something of a "feel" for how I expect them to look. I expect there are several reasons why I was a bit underwhelmed -

* As others have noted, this is a pre-production example. Firmware will be different.

* The files I am looking at are JPEG, not RAW. This must affect quality at 100%.

* The landscape subjects you have chosen seem very flatly lit, so I am not getting a feel for edge contrast and "pop".

I think you have made the assumption that the subject that would show off your back the best would be something with amazing amounts of tiny detail. Well, yes, but all that really demonstrates is that you can print with this back to A1 rather than A2, and have as good a resolution as a 40MP back but twice as big (I think most of us already had that figured out, anyway). Which is all very well if you are into posters or wall-sized prints, but it doesn't really say anything about pictorial quality. I would rather see two or three really cracking pictures which pop off the screen and where tiny detail is just part of the story. And which show me something which I can't do with my 39MP, other than bigness.

John
« Last Edit: October 05, 2010, 04:32:03 AM by John R Smith »
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bcooter

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Re: >61MP image files for peepers
« Reply #38 on: October 05, 2010, 04:28:16 AM »

I guess waiting for proper software/firmware wouldn't be a problem unless anyone remembers lc10.

Anyway, it the real purpose of this back is to show it has detail and doesn't moire, shoot a full length subject with a blue sweater.  Actually shoot a full length subject in horizontal wearing anything blue.   That'll do it.

Or maybe hire a professional photographer to showcase a professional camer . . . oh sorry what was I thinking?

BC
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yaya

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Re: >61MP image files for peepers
« Reply #39 on: October 05, 2010, 04:56:49 AM »

Anyway, it the real purpose of this back is to show it has detail and doesn't moire, shoot a full length subject with a blue sweater.  Actually shoot a full length subject in horizontal wearing anything blue.   That'll do it.
Or maybe hire a professional photographer to showcase a professional camer . . . oh sorry what was I thinking?
BC

This is being taken care of.

Don't forget that there are applications other than people that require high amount of detail and lack of moire;) and yes these ARE professional applications...

Yair
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