Compose in Black & White?

[jwarthman]

For what it's worth, I agree with Ralph, Jonathan, et al. Generally speaking, viewing a B&W image on a camera's EVF would be similar to using Photoshop and  converting the mode to Grayscale. Maybe with some images you'd like the results. But to be truly useful, such an EVF would need to have some adjustments to allow the photographer to change the way each color contributes to the B&W tonality.

As for doing this conversion in Photoshop, I especially like the technique of using two hue/saturation layers. Change the saturation of the "top" layer to -100 (fully desaturated). Then change the "Mode" of the lower hue/saturation layer to "Color", and open the dialog box to change the hue/saturation settings on this layer. As you drag the sliders around, the grayscale image will change, sometimes subtly, sometimes not. It's much like placing filters over the lens when shooting B&W film.

For a great explanation of this and other conversion methods, check out these tips from Russel Brown.

Enjoy!

-- Jim

[Bobtrips]

Even if this feature existed, I doubt I'd ever use it. So much of the quality of an excellent black and white photo comes from the darkroom, whether chemical or digital, that the preview image really won't tell you anything.

Well, some of us would.  I see shapes and shadows easier if I'm viewing in B&W.  Otherwise I'm too influenced by color.

As for converting to B&W while editing, already said that....
 

[Bobtrips]

Well, I've let this one sit here for a while, hoping that someone with an S2 would give you an answer.  I'm a person who doesn't like living with uncertainty and assuming that you might be as well....

You might want to go to the Fuji SLR forum at CPReview and ask a user.  You might also click on 'Cameras' in the upper left and read the S2 review.

I've never heard of the ability to preview a shot on a dSLR.  In fact many dSLR owners rail at the thought that they might find the option useful.   :cool:

If you find out that it's possible would you please post that info back here for us mere mortals?

[Dan Sroka]

Here's an idea: cut a tiny piece of red acetate and place it over your view finder.

[George Barr]

The correct answer to your question is that the sony 828 does have a sepia mode which is essentially brown and white photography. I know some of the other 'prosumer' point and shoots do have a black and white setting - don't know how quick it is to flip back and forth. I have used the sepia setting on the sony with success to eliminate glaring colours which appeared to ruin the composition but which in monochrome don't even show - the wratten 90 is still very useful, particulary in landscapes which don't tend to show very much red (which the wratten 90 can't eliminate).

[AJSJones]

Welcome Arwen!

Not a direct answer to your question (would you trust the LCD on a digicam to give accurate B/W tones even if you found one?!)
but...
You could try a Wratten #90 filter to view the scene to get a reasonable idea of how the B/W image might come out, with or without post processing in PS.

Alain Briot's essay on this site ( http://www.luminous-landscape.com/columns/aesthetics5.shtml ) addresses some of your issues  - read it all or search for Wratten #90, the filter that can be used for previsualization of a B/W image (with a slight residual yellow tinge, that he says you'll get used to!)

Good luck

Andy

[gurtch]

When I shoot B&W with my film cameras (SLRs), I almost always use an orange filter on the lens (I do mostly seascapes). The orange filter on an SLR seems to "kill off" vibrant colors, and emphasize black and white. Try it!!
Dave G.

[RalphC]

Have you thought of using something like the "Peak Mono Tone Viewer", such as shown on this page (scroll down the page): PEAK Viewer

I have one of these in my camera bag and they work farily well in good light.

[Arwen]

To clear any confusion, my original intent was to find out if any other DSLRs can preview and capture in B/W like the Fuji S2 Pro can. This camera is not a fixed lens camera, is it? I didn't think it was since I know it can use many Nikon lenses. That is what fixed lens means, right? Can you please clear this one up for me? Thank you kindly.

And as the conversations "spidered" I wanted to know more...

Boku, I believe you cleared up alot of what I wanted to know more about. Thank YOU

So are there many photographers that like to produce b/w landscapes/nature/outdoor work using DSLR?  

Thanks very much!

Julie

[Jonathan Wienke]

I do a lot of digital B&W stuff with the Canon 1Ds. I use theimagingfactory's Convert To B&W Pro filter in Photoshop. It gives a very wide range of options and control over the conversion process. It is my experience that the "best" B&W interpretation of an image is frequently far removed from the "canned" B&W offered by digicams or Photoshop's Image-Mode-Grayscale command. Shooting in color gives you an amazing amount of control over the finished image in post-processing.

Reality is in color; the best way to get a good B&W is to learn to see the possible B&W image lurking within the colors without relying on gadgets that at best can give a single pre-canned B&W interpretation that may not be all that great.

I have some B&W stuff in my web site here.

[dbarthel]

Calumete Photo sells the Wratten 90 filter nicely mounted in a variety of formats for about $25.00. Check their Zone VI product line.

Dan

[Alan Little]

> So Johnathan,  how would you teach someone to 'see' in B&W?

I'm not Jonathan but if I might make a few suggestions:

 1. Take lots and lots of black and white photos.

2. Look at them. Work out what you like about the ones you like, what you don't like about the ones you don't like.

3. Ask yourself how your pictures are different from how you wanted them to look. (Do you *know* how you wanted them to look?)

We've already covered the important bits. You could stop here.

4. Look at lots of other people's black and white photos too until you find some you really like.

5. Find out who took those. Get hold of their books, look at lots more of their pictures.

6. Compare your new heroes' pictures to your own and work out what's different/better about their pictures *that matters to you*.

7. Finally, *if* you really think you already have the compositional eye of a Cartier-Bresson and the main problems with your pictures are technical (unlikely though this may be) then you might need to look at buying  a view camera or a Leica and a big pile of Plus-X, studying books on sensitometry and the Zone System, getting a better version of Photoshop, or whatever. (Hint: it is highly unlikely that this step will help)

OK, I'm maybe being a bit too Luddite here. Some technical  learning can help - it took me a while to learn to "read" minilab prints of XP2 and see where I might actually have worthwhile pictures hidden in all the washed out sepia sludge. I imagine learning to read a grey display on a camera, or a straight greyscale conversion of a colour picture in Photoshop, would be similar although possibly not as difficult.

[Bobtrips]

Photography is not my area of expertise, learning theory/teaching is.

If you want to teach someone a new skill the most effective way is to make is as simple as possible.  Introduce one component at a time after the previous component has been mastered.

Having had the advantage of shooting with a good quality EVF I have experienced that advantage of 'seeing in B&W'.  When the image presented in your viewfinder is B&W the potential images jump out at you.  

Now some of you have learned to look at color and see B&W, but none of you had an easy job of doing so.  (Well, maybe those of you who are color blind.)  But you learned the only way possible at the time.  And that way was slow and tedious.  Things change.

Technology has made many photographic tasks easier.  How many of you are running a wet color darkroom?  Digitals can make seeing/shooting B&W easier.  (Don't like easier?  Do it the hard way, I don't care.  ;o)

What we need now is to have the EVF display and capture de-linked so that one can see in B&W, capture in color, and do the actual conversion later with editing.

[Arwen]

What great discussions have occurred since I got back from the other coast!  All I can say is that I feel that using the LCD in b/w mode has without question accellerated my ability to see like a camera can.

The old Mavica has the ability to set the f-stop (I know this term is some arbitrary setting the camera has chosen for a particular scene) up to 1.5 times open or closed (in half stop increments) from what the camera deemed normal exposure, and I love walking around just looking at things in b/w. I enjoy playing with this so called exposure control to darken and lighten things in the LCD screen. It can  change the way the image looks to me - stoping down changes detailed areas to dark shapes for example. I did this in a heavy rainstorm over a lake and got some pleasing images I might not have "seen" had I shot the same scene with my 35 mm using b/w film. I'm sure I'd eventually have learned to see things in this way but it would be over a much longer period of time in my estimation. It can take me weeks to get back to my film darkroom sometimes and even though I religiously record exposures the moment is now an event from the past. Seeing the image live and manipulating it, even in this crude way is just like... oh yes, Look what I see... I get it! I get it! I don't even think my b/w photography instructor fully realizes what this little camera has done for me. He does see it in my work I hand in and uses it as examples for other classes so something is working for me.

At a workshop I attended I was told that taking the picture correctly exposed - as you want it to look is a time/money saving thing and the less time you spend editing in the darkroom or using photo editors means money in your pocket. I'm not a pro yet but it kinda makes sense. I must sound like a child playing with a toy and an old one at that but I gotta think that seeing this way - crude as it is, has helped me tons. I know this will make some of you cringe but the NegArt, and Solarize settings are just as fun. Seeing and manipulating a closeup of a lily in NegArt mode is killer.  Should a dSLR ever do this?  Why the heck not??

Maybe my dislike of sitting in front of a monitor for hours on end has something to do with it, too. Can't help it - I was a software test engineer for eons and gave it up for photography. and now that I'm trying to make that step to digital I know I will be back on the PC for hours on end - can't get away from the darned things.

I learned more from these discussions than I could have ever learned in a classroom!  You guys are awesome!

Julie