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Author Topic: Excited about the Pentax 645D all over again?  (Read 61364 times)

Dave Gurtcheff

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Re: Excited about the Pentax 645D all over again?
« Reply #80 on: September 11, 2010, 01:58:17 pm »

Pentax now has the 645D on their web site in English here:
http://www.pentax.jp/english/imaging/digital/medium/645d/feature_3.html
Dave
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Dave Gurtcheff

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Re: Excited about the Pentax 645D all over again?
« Reply #81 on: September 11, 2010, 02:15:43 pm »

Also found this on the Pentax site referenced in my previous post:
"Distortion and lateral chromatic aberration compensation functions
assure high-quality images without distortions and color shifts
The 645D’s lens characteristic compensation functions**** effectively compensate for the barrel- and spool-type distortions common to wide-angle and zoom lenses, as well as for the lateral chromatic aberration that causes slight color shifts along the subject’s outline. By effectively compensating optical characteristics for specific lenses on the camera side, the 645D makes images appear sharper and crisper."

**** These functions are available only with D FA 645- and FA 645-series lenses

What do you think: Could the firmware be revised to allow inputing the manual focus lens being used, to take advantage of in camera  lens corrections?
Also, I am certain I saw that the latest ACR has correction modules for 645D and a slew of lenses already.
Dave
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Excited about the Pentax 645D all over again?
« Reply #82 on: September 12, 2010, 05:27:50 am »


I now have a mental image of a load of japaneese quality control engineers selecting a serries of different shovels to whack a Pentax 645D with as it sits on a test frame, then then tentatively  sidling back up to the camera to test it still works.

:-)

Cheers,
Bernard

BernardLanguillier

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Re: Excited about the Pentax 645D all over again?
« Reply #83 on: September 12, 2010, 04:49:22 pm »

So far, judging by the limited number of available sample Jpeg images, the IQ appears to be inferior to the opposition, and even to the D3X. However, until we see some properly shot raw images to process by our own methods we will not be able to make IQ judgments. It really needs to be better than the D3X to make it worth bothering with investing in a new system, and that's a big ask. Even the S2 is only incrementally better than the D3X.

Game changer - I think not. Interesting development, maybe.

I'd be surprised if many 645D users outisde Japan used jpgs. The conversions from DNG I have seen were excellent.

Cheers,
Bernard

tsjanik

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Re: Excited about the Pentax 645D all over again?
« Reply #84 on: September 14, 2010, 09:58:27 pm »

Game changer - I think not. Interesting development, maybe.
Nick:

I think the 645D has already changed the game.  B&H has a Hasselblad HDII-31 for under $10,000 the last time I checked.  I suspect this is in response to the 645D which does not yet have distribution outside of Japan.  I intend to purchase a 645D.  I’m an amateur, I derive very little income from photography (much less than I spend).  There are many people in my situation.  We love taking and printing photographs and want to produce the highest quality we can.  20-40k is too much for many of us, 10k is not so bad.
If you check a recent post at LuLa, you can download a DNG file from a 645D, it convinces me.

Tom
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ced

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Re: Excited about the Pentax 645D all over again?
« Reply #85 on: September 18, 2010, 07:52:46 am »

Dave I believe posted this link: http://photo1.ganref.jp/impression/0/369/645d_lens2_06_l.jpg
Interested to see what you guys think of the details in this image with tiny black specs in the centre of each sparkle...
I can't imagine having to live with them in an image.
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NigelC

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Re: Excited about the Pentax 645D all over again?
« Reply #86 on: September 18, 2010, 02:30:22 pm »

I checked on ebay and a Taiwanese seller has body only for UK£7000 and body plus 55mm for about UK£8300. However while this seems really attractive, I assume you would be very lucky indeed not to have to pay some import duty and 17.5% UK VAT, although still about UK£4000 cheaper than HD4-40 with 80mm lens. The real issue is that it comes with a warranty valid in Japan, i.e. anything goes wrong, you have to send it to Japan. Even for someone not relying on for main income stream, this adds a further risk. OTOH how often does a camera body go wrong and can we assume there will be technical support in Europe within the next 12 months? 
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BJL

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Re: Excited about the Pentax 645D all over again?
« Reply #87 on: September 18, 2010, 04:25:35 pm »

I think the 645D has already changed the game.  B&H has a Hasselblad HDII-31 for under $10,000 the last time I checked.  I suspect this is in response to the 645D ...
That is "near end-of-life" discounting of a previous generation body (H3DII) paired with a previous generation sensor and back (31MP) both superseded by the H4D-40, which is still $18,000 at B&H, and which uses the same sensor as the Pentax 645.

If and when the H4D-40 starts being heavily discounted, the Pentax 645D might be able to take some credit.
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ondebanks

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Re: Excited about the Pentax 645D all over again?
« Reply #88 on: September 20, 2010, 06:48:46 pm »

Dave I believe posted this link: http://photo1.ganref.jp/impression/0/369/645d_lens2_06_l.jpg
Interested to see what you guys think of the details in this image with tiny black specs in the centre of each sparkle...
I can't imagine having to live with them in an image.

Let me assure you that if you realised what you are seeing, you would have a complete change of heart! Those "tiny black specks" are what you get when the lens is an odd number of half-wavelengths out of focus. Note how both the foreground and background point sources gradually show an increasing pattern of light and dark rings - and more critically, how these ring patterns exhibit identical shapes and intensities at a given degree of defocus in front of and behind the plane of sharp focus? That beautiful symmetry, between inside and outside focus, is a sign of near-perfect optics!

Diffraction spikes from the aperture blades are causing a certain jaggedness of the diffraction rings, but that's to be expected with a non-circular aperture. The image is also over-sharpened, for my taste, which increases the contrast between the bright and dark regions of the diffraction pattern at small degrees of defocus.

I don't know what lens this is, but at this f-stop and object distance, its spherical correction looks good to at least 1/6 wavelength  :o. The Rayleigh criterion only calls for 1/4 wave accuracy for an optic to earn the label "diffraction limited". There is also little sign of coma or astigmatism in the corners.

Would you be able to live with that?  ;)
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tsjanik

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Re: Excited about the Pentax 645D all over again?
« Reply #89 on: September 20, 2010, 09:28:43 pm »

Kudos Ondebanks, very nice analysis.  It never occured to me that those spots were a diffraction pattern.  Perhaps a the photographer will use a larger aperture next time.

NigelC:  I worry about sending the camera for repair to Japan as well; however, in the past I sent  cameras to Colorado without a thought and frankly sending them to Japan or Colorado isn't all that different in today's world.
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NigelC

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Re: Excited about the Pentax 645D all over again?
« Reply #90 on: September 21, 2010, 03:00:39 am »

Official announcement from Pentax UK - 645D will launch in UK in December (2010). UK£8999 for body only, UK£9999 for body and 55mm lens - don't know about rest of Europe.
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NigelC

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Re: Excited about the Pentax 645D all over again?
« Reply #91 on: September 21, 2010, 05:22:43 am »

Official announcement from Pentax UK - 645D will launch in UK in December (2010). UK£8999 for body only, UK£9999 for body and 55mm lens - don't know about rest of Europe.

Not sure whether this price is as competitive as was first indicated when announced in Japan - expect it will be same price in dollars if/when gets to N.America. However that does include 17.5% VAT (going up to 20% in January) - US prices tend to be without point of sale taxes. By comparison, can now get H4DII-40 with 35-90 for UK£13950, VAT included

Bit concerned about lens availability - not sure anyone has been selling new 645AF lenses in UK for a few years.

 
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ondebanks

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Re: Excited about the Pentax 645D all over again?
« Reply #92 on: September 21, 2010, 09:48:30 am »

No.

The shot is ruined, whatever the cause.

Dear oh dear. Some people are never satisfied, even when you offer them perfection.  ;)

You could add a light blur/diffusion filter, either pre or (more likely) post capture, to smooth out the rings in a shot like this, if the perfect diffraction rings bother you (as I said, oversharpening made them more noticeable). You can always, easily, degrade good imaging to bad; you can never do it the other way around. I would always want a highly corrected lens over a lesser one, if given the choice. But bokeh junkies do get their fixes from undercorrected spherical, 'tis true.

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larryg

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Re: Excited about the Pentax 645D all over again?
« Reply #93 on: September 21, 2010, 10:34:27 am »

However good the camera might be, there is a definite stumbling block at that price (10,000 whatsits).

Frankly, for the money, I would rather have an M9 and that's still out of reach. Now don't misunderstand: as with Mercedes, BMW, small boats et al I can go write a good cheque. But that does not mean that I can really afford it! There is a wealth of difference (NPI) between the two propositions - the doing and the should I. In short, if it's pro, then of course you should do it; if for fun, then perhaps a dose of reality is what the doc should order.

No desire to spoil anyone's breakfast with this, but I do think that many just throw money away - even I have done so, but that's an age thing: the first one, concerning my 'blads, being a male menopause one; the later ones just desperation, buying solutions that really have to come from the mind instead. I was watching Bloomberg the other day, and somebody came up with a novel soundbite (novel to me) when he said that spending money should be as easy as running barbed wire through your fingers. I thought about that, and wish he'd said it a few years ago.

You really can learn from tv after all.

Rob C


Great post  but also looks like one I could write myself.   
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feppe

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Re: Excited about the Pentax 645D all over again?
« Reply #94 on: September 21, 2010, 01:36:36 pm »

NigelC:  I worry about sending the camera for repair to Japan as well; however, in the past I sent  cameras to Colorado without a thought and frankly sending them to Japan or Colorado isn't all that different in today's world.

Big difference: you're sending it abroad, not to another state (assuming you live in the US). At least in Europe you're liable for customs and duties (and even VAT depending on your tax status) when you get the camera back unless you can prove it was sent for repairs and that you've paid your customs and duties. I've never done that so not sure how convoluted the bureaucracy is. This adds extra time and hassle, probably at both ends (sending and receiving) - dealing with bureaucrats is a sloooooow and painful process. You could have a shipper like DHL do the logistics for you, but that adds cost.

If you brought the camera in your carry-on luggage, didn't declare it, and managed to avoid customs, then send it back for repairs and get caught, you're in a world of hurt (fines or court for tax avoidance, smuggling, eating babies, etc.). Oh, and the same applies for getting caught bringing it in without declaring it.

TMARK

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Re: Excited about the Pentax 645D all over again?
« Reply #95 on: September 21, 2010, 02:13:37 pm »

I don't think there is duty on importation of camera bodies and lenses from Japan or Europe.  Accessories, yes.  This is seperate and apart from local/regional taxes, such as VAT or sales tax in the US.
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feppe

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Re: Excited about the Pentax 645D all over again?
« Reply #96 on: September 21, 2010, 04:18:46 pm »

I don't think there is duty on importation of camera bodies and lenses from Japan or Europe.  Accessories, yes.  This is seperate and apart from local/regional taxes, such as VAT or sales tax in the US.

Could be the case. When I bring a camera for personal use I'd get slapped with VAT and perhaps additional general duties for importing more than 500 EUR worth of goods (or whatever the limit is). For businesses it's obviously different.

JV

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Re: Excited about the Pentax 645D all over again?
« Reply #97 on: September 21, 2010, 09:41:44 pm »

We will have to wait and see what the prices are going to be in the US but if they are in line with the European prices I don't see Pentax making inroads into the MFD market.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2010, 09:44:05 pm by JV »
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JdeV

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Re: Excited about the Pentax 645D all over again?
« Reply #98 on: September 22, 2010, 04:09:44 am »

Forgive me if this has been covered before but does anyone know what the mirror slap and shutter lag are like on this Pentax?

The H series are nice cameras but for terrible mirror slap (and unreliability). If the Pentax is significantly better in this respect that makes it even more attractive.
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NigelC

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Re: Excited about the Pentax 645D all over again?
« Reply #99 on: September 22, 2010, 04:24:49 am »

Welcome to rip-off Britain

Rip-off Europe in fact - I expect euro price to be over 10,000. Remember US prices usually quoted net of point of sale taxes.

Unless they can get into the rental market, I don't think they will sell many in UK. Personally can't see rental houses wanting to carry third line of MF on top of Hassey and Phase/Leaf. The problem is that the body only is double the price of the 1DsIII/D3X and not dramatically less than H4D-40 with some of the deals around. But H series has relatively recent dedicated lens line and Tilt/Shift adapter. Pentax 645/67 lens supply has withered on the vine since Pentax withdrew their MF film line. Only obvious market is people who didn't sell their P645 kit. I can only think pricing in Japan is more competitive or the structure of the market is significantly different.

I just can't see people paying UK£9000 for a body and having to scratch around for s/h glass.
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