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Author Topic: Output a vector drawing image, best printer type?  (Read 5596 times)

rodcones

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Output a vector drawing image, best printer type?
« on: September 06, 2010, 07:16:01 am »

I'd like to know what experience anyone might have with printing out a vector drawing image type file, maybe from CorelDraw or the like.

I'm thinking along the lines of a huge sheet comprising sets of lines at various angles and some circles and polygons all with various line widths. There may be some colour patches.  OK a custom test target !

The size would have the short side perhaps 44in or even 60in and so would need to be output on one of the monsters!

What I'm unsure about is, there may be a suitable print driver within the software but does something like this need a "plotter" type of monster rather than a photo inkjet monster?  And this is something needing to be given to a "bureau" or specialist print shop and if there may be colour involved I don't know about vector format files needing any handling with CMYK or such and also if they need to have the same drawing software installed?
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Dick Roadnight

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Re: Output a vector drawing image, best printer type?
« Reply #1 on: September 06, 2010, 09:08:27 am »

I'd like to know what experience anyone might have with printing out a vector drawing image type file, maybe from CorelDraw or the like.
I have Adobe illustrator, which should work well with Photoshop.
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I'm thinking along the lines of a huge sheet comprising sets of lines at various angles and some circles and polygons all with various line widths. There may be some colour patches.  OK a custom test target !

The size would have the short side perhaps 44in or even 60in and so would need to be output on one of the monsters!
You could print it in sections using a smaller printer, and attach to a standard sheet of e.g. plywood.
Quote
What I'm unsure about is, there may be a suitable print driver within the software but does something like this need a "plotter" type of monster rather than a photo inkjet monster?  And this is something needing to be given to a "bureau" or specialist print shop and if there may be colour involved I don't know about vector format files needing any handling with CMYK or such and also if they need to have the same drawing software installed?
You could print directly from the drawing program to an inkjet, or save a file in any format that e.g. Photoshop could read, which I think would include some vector formats... Photoshop uses vector graphics for some layers, which are rasterised (converted from vector to raster, or dot-map) when you flatten the image.
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Dano Steinhardt

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Re: Output a vector drawing image, best printer type?
« Reply #2 on: September 06, 2010, 10:50:02 am »

Dano from Epson America here:

If outputting a file with vector-based data on an Epson Stylus Pro printer, be sure to check "Finest Detail" in the driver.  (I do not know about other manufacturers printers)

While not the most intuitive name, the Finest Detail setting will produce sharper edges on vector data such as line art and text.

But resist the temptation to keep this setting checked for non vector-based photographs.  It will not produce finer details in photographs.

Attached is a screenshot of the 9900 driver showing where the Finest Detail setting is located.



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Dano Steinhardt

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Re: Output a vector drawing image, best printer type?
« Reply #3 on: September 06, 2010, 11:00:09 am »

Here is a larger screenshot in case the previous attachment was too small.
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Ernst Dinkla

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Re: Output a vector drawing image, best printer type?
« Reply #4 on: September 06, 2010, 11:42:30 am »

The normal printer drivers including Epson's drivers will not digest vector files. There are ways to overcome that.
If you use the normal printer drivers with RGB-device color management, it is a good idea to have the design made up in RGB color mode and not in CMYK mode.

An important step in the workflow is where the translation of vector information to bitmap information happens.

It can be done in the application the vector design was made with and the design there exported as an RGB Tiff or Jpeg at the required print size and preferably in the native resolution of the printer to use: 360 - 720 PPI for Epson, 300-600-1200 PPI for HP and Canon. Set anti-aliasing ON in the export menu. That way no quality degrading extrapolation step happens after that on the already rasterised image. Big files then but a lot of white in the image will help to keep a Jpeg file small, if a high quality Jpeg setting is used there will be no harm to the design itself.

A reliable step with a good translation is possible by exporting a PDF from the application the design was made in and importing that PDF in Photoshop to create the RGB Tiff with the same settings mentioned above.

Check the RGB color in Photoshop, printing directly from Illustrator and other vector based programs tend to deliver less reliable color, the more when the design was made in CMYK mode.

The steps above allow the use of a normal wide format printer driver, no RIP is needed. You may face memory and print length issues though. Qimage to print from can solve those issues most of the time.

The pro approach is to use a Postscript interpreting RIP to drive the printer. It will read the PDF and do the rasterisation step on the fly when it produces the printer data. Usually an expensive solution. Not all RIPs are as good as Photoshop (or Xara Extreme) on the rasterisation step. Most PS interpreting RIPs can handle both CMK and RGB color descriptions.

For small PDF files, Adobe Reader + the normal driver will do a similar job but I wouldn't use it for large images.


met vriendelijke groeten, Ernst Dinkla

Try: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/




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rodcones

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Re: Output a vector drawing image, best printer type?
« Reply #5 on: September 07, 2010, 07:52:54 pm »

Getting back a bit late, sorry.

To D.R.

yes, I could probably do it myself  with a 'sections' printout,  related to the other post we talked in.

To others:

thanks also for the hints. I'd need to have a look at the older Corel I still have and see what it says about printing. And I'm sure a 9900 would do the job, but I'd still be interested in knowing if a more 'CAD' oriented monster that a print shop might have is better suited.
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JohnHeerema

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Re: Output a vector drawing image, best printer type?
« Reply #6 on: September 08, 2010, 10:38:18 pm »

Well, traditionally, large-format vector drawings are output with a pen plotter.
But also traditionally, big vector drawings are produced using a CAD package like AutoCad or Microstation, each of which comes with good plotter drivers. CorelDraw is not so much known for being good with a plotter, although I've had good luck in the past with general purpose plotter drivers from drawing programs.

As I recall, a service bureau will charge you a lot less for plotter output than they will for output from a photo printer. Also, I suspect that you can pick up used plotters relatively easily, and for less than a photo printer.

The downsides are that lines can only be drawn with the pen sizes and hues you have loaded in the plotter, and area fills are out, unless you like cross-hatching.

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Ernst Dinkla

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Re: Output a vector drawing image, best printer type?
« Reply #7 on: September 09, 2010, 04:00:30 am »

Getting back a bit late, sorry.

To D.R.

yes, I could probably do it myself  with a 'sections' printout,  related to the other post we talked in.

To others:

thanks also for the hints. I'd need to have a look at the older Corel I still have and see what it says about printing. And I'm sure a 9900 would do the job, but I'd still be interested in knowing if a more 'CAD' oriented monster that a print shop might have is better suited.

A CAD design falls within the Vector category but there are much more Vector formats. Plotters used to be the name for the machines that produced line drawings with pens. Or cut material with a knife or laser installed. HPGL, DMPL, etc are formats to drive them. Inkjet printer that have an HPGL driver installed can produce CAD drawings and in that industry they are still called plotters but they are much more versatile if other drivers are used. For example the PS versions of the HP Z6100, Z2100, Z3200, have the normal driver for photo, bitmap work (Photoshop output), a Postscript RIP for EPS, PDF designs (Illustrator, Corel Draw) and the HPGL-2 driver for CAD output (Autocad). The HPGL-2 driver will do more than line drawings these days. Inkjet printers rely on rasterisation of the original design whether vector, cad and even bitmaps are used, that is the way they are made. The original plotter was an XY controlled, numerical device with few features for area color or images.

Today's use of the term plotter can lead to misunderstandings.


met vriendelijke groeten, Ernst Dinkla

spectral plots of +100 inkjet papers:
http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm






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Dick Roadnight

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Re: Output a vector drawing image, best printer type?
« Reply #8 on: September 09, 2010, 10:56:20 am »

A CAD design falls within the Vector category but there are much more Vector formats. Plotters used to be the name for the machines that produced line drawings with pens.
A pen plotter will produce "staircase free" diagonal lines, but you can get these with an inkjet printer by printing square, and mounting diagonal... "we have the technology!"
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rodcones

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Re: Output a vector drawing image, best printer type?
« Reply #9 on: September 10, 2010, 04:48:33 am »

A CAD design falls within the Vector category but there are much more Vector formats. Plotters used to be the name for the machines that produced line drawings with pens. Or cut material with a knife or laser installed. HPGL, DMPL, etc are formats to drive them. Inkjet printer that have an HPGL driver installed can produce CAD drawings and in that industry they are still called plotters but they are much more versatile if other drivers are used. For example the PS versions of the HP Z6100, Z2100, Z3200, have the normal driver for photo, bitmap work (Photoshop output), a Postscript RIP for EPS, PDF designs (Illustrator, Corel Draw) and the HPGL-2 driver for CAD output (Autocad). The HPGL-2 driver will do more than line drawings these days. Inkjet printers rely on rasterisation of the original design whether vector, cad and even bitmaps are used, that is the way they are made. The original plotter was an XY controlled, numerical device with few features for area color or images.

Today's use of the term plotter can lead to misunderstandings.


Thanks for the detail - and to John.

That was what was in my mind at the outset, with an image of an exposed "printhead" on top running on a pair of rails.


and D.R.
Quote
A pen plotter will produce "staircase free" diagonal lines, but you can get these with an inkjet printer by printing square, and mounting diagonal... "we have the technology!"

 ???  Should I envisage a sheet being fed in pointy end first but in a way that the diagonal lines are in line with the head movement? 
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Ernst Dinkla

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Re: Output a vector drawing image, best printer type?
« Reply #10 on: September 10, 2010, 08:56:05 am »


 ???  Should I envisage a sheet being fed in pointy end first but in a way that the diagonal lines are in line with the head movement? 

A modern inkjet printer and the right driver + 300-1200 PPI rasterisation and anti-aliasing will outperform any pen plotter these days. On any angled or curved line. With a wider choice of colors and line widths. Without pen drawing artefacts.


met vriendelijke groeten, Ernst Dinkla

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http://www.pigment-print.com/dinklacanvaswraps/index.html





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