Textured matte papers

[Vuurtoren]

Ok. I thought that I would ask the community.  I would very much like to hear from people who use textured matte papers for colour work.

I have tested, over the last couple of weeks:  hahnemuhler's complete range of textured matte.  Also Permajet's complete range of matte.  But perhaps just to gain some extra insight into other peoples' choices would actually be, well psychologically it does something, right?.  Simply put,  Let me know what you use for colour work and why. That would be nice.  thanks.

[Alan Goldhammer]

I use Museo Textured Rag for a number of different prints.  For example the Monet Reflection shot on my home page looks especially nice on textured paper.  At this point, I think I print on matte paper about 30% of the time depending on the image.

Alan

[Vuurtoren]

Thanks, also interesting website about rock creek.

[neile]

Depending on how heavy you go here are some other options I found in my Inkjet Paper List:

Canson Arches Aquarelle
Canson Mi-Teintes
Canson Montval Aquarelle
Epson Cold Press Bright/Natural
Moab Somerset Enhanced Textured
Museuo Max

I've printed on the Museum Max for some images, and it works well... depending on the image It's a pretty heavy texture.

Neil

[Vuurtoren]

Depending on how heavy you go here are some other options I found in my Inkjet Paper List:

Canson Arches Aquarelle
Canson Mi-Teintes
Canson Montval Aquarelle
Epson Cold Press Bright/Natural
Moab Somerset Enhanced Textured
Museuo Max

I've printed on the Museum Max for some images, and it works well... depending on the image It's a pretty heavy texture.

Neil

Hi Neil,  Before I go to the trouble of getting hold of yet more test papers I wonder, could you tell me/point me somewhere.  I am looking for a textured matte where the texture is medium rough, not gentle/soft/subtle, and the texture needs to have a random appearance, not evenly distributed/patterned so to speak.  I have found only two papers so far, Hahnemuhle Torchon and Permajet Parchment, unfortunately both white points are too white for me.  the other candidate is hahnemuhle Museum, a very nice aesthetic  white point but very very expensive and its crispness and clarity somewhat noticeably less than the other two.

I have great papers for non-matte and am happy, but I am on a desperate search for that matte paper.

[Alan Goldhammer]

Museuo Max

I've printed on the Museum Max for some images, and it works well... depending on the image It's a pretty heavy texture.

Neil

Neil, I am somewhat confused by this statement (and I also double checked your database).  Are you referring to Museo MAX here?  If so, I don't think it is fair to call the surface texture "heavy."  I have a box of it and while it is not as smooth as Museo Portfolio Rag, I don't consider it to have as significant surface texture as their Textured Rag or Hahnemuhle William Turner.  Can you clarify what you mean by texture?

Alan

[neile]

Vuurtoren, I left my pack of all my test papers downtown today, I'll grab 'em on Monday and report back for you on some options.

Neil

[neile]

Are you referring to Museo MAX here?

You're right, Alan. I got two papers mixed up. I meant Museo Textured Rag, which has a very heavy texture. MAX definitely has texture to it but is not nearly as intense. I should have it listed as "Medium" in the database, which I'll correct in the next update.

Neil

[Ernst Dinkla]

The SpectrumViz list has the Matt Photo-Fine Art papers split in categories of what I considered smooth up to rough textures + Pattern Textures. If you hold the cursor on the paper name the paper white in Lab + the paper weight is shown.


met vriendelijke groeten, Ernst Dinkla

spectral plots of +100 inkjet papers:
http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm

[Vuurtoren]

Neil, great I look forward to your comments.  Thankyou.

Hi Ernst, ik ga het kijken, bedankt voor het aanwijzen.  

Chris.

[Vuurtoren]

The SpectrumViz list has the Matt Photo-Fine Art papers split in categories of what I considered smooth up to rough textures + Pattern Textures. If you hold the cursor on the paper name the paper white in Lab + the paper weight is shown.


met vriendelijke groeten, Ernst Dinkla

spectral plots of +100 inkjet papers:
http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm

Dag Ernst, well you have put a lot of work in here, and I am sure there will be people who appreciate this.  Unfortunately, while I understand the concepts, interpreting the graphs goes above my head.  I really am lost, but thanks for taking the time to point me to your site in this regards.  I will stick to visuals. 

[Ernst Dinkla]

I will stick to visuals. 

Not easy to create that in a forum discussion :-)

There used to be an application on the RIT site with pictures of paper samples illuminated from different angles so one gets an impression of the texture. Couldn't find the URL anymore though and the collection was limited.

Whether you can interprete the plots doesn't matter for your question. The maps created are (to my eyes) quite accurate on surface texture classes and the Lab number says something about the paper white.  HM Torchon is in the Heavy Textured map, all the varieties in that map including the Canson's are of a warmer paper white than the HM Torchon. The reason for that can be observed in the plots though, the HM Torchon is the only one with an Fluorescent Brightening Agent, causing the drop below 420 Nm and the peak near 440 Nm


met vriendelijke groeten, Ernst Dinkla

Try: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/

[Vuurtoren]

Hi Ernst thanks.  actually I downloaded a pdf that explained the difference between brightness and whiteness and explained the meaning of nanometers.  It is clearer now and so your graphs have more meaning as an initial way to make decisions about at least what paper to try out.  It's a great springboard and saves a little money.  But please could you tell me, you have print side +w and print side + b.  Does the B and W stand for Black and white point?  I could not find the definition in your description section.  Also I am still confused as to what nanometers mean on the scale, the theory was understood, ie Blue wavelength?  I think, but what does the scale actually mean from 400 to 700, is this the wavelenth of the RGB spectrum or just the wavelength of the Shorter Blue spectrum?

These will be the final questions, after understanding this I will be ok.  Thankyou for your time.

Tot Ziens, Chris

[Vuurtoren]

Ernst, should have beem more meticulous in my search.  Ok I understand the nanometers now and the colours of the spectrum.  Ok it has all fallen nicely in place.  But just tell me about the - print side +w and print side + b and then the case is closed.  thankyou.

[Ernst Dinkla]

Ernst, should have beem more meticulous in my search.  Ok I understand the nanometers now and the colours of the spectrum.  Ok it has all fallen nicely in place.  But just tell me about the - print side +w and print side + b and then the case is closed.  thankyou.

Three measurements of the paper white spectral reflectance(s) are done. One (print side+w)on the printside of the paper with a white museumboard underneath the inkjet paper (say the later display condition), the second (print side+b) on the printside of the inkjetpaper again but with a black plastic sheet with a very low reflectance underneath and the third with the same black sheet underneath but the backside of the inkjetpaper measured.

The last two give some information where the FBAs are used. The difference between the first two says something about the opacity of the paper. The greater the difference in spectral reflection the more translucent the paper is. Opacity of paper is more significant at the red side of visible light than near UV, so look at the right side of the plots for that. For example in the Heavy Textured map the 240 gsm Canson Arches Aquarelle shows more translucency than the 310 gsm version of that paper as can be expected with different weights for the same paper type. But it isn't always that simple, some papers show more opacity despite a lower weight.


met vriendelijke groeten, Ernst Dinkla

Dinkla Gallery Canvas Wrap Actions for Photoshop
http://www.pigment-print.com/dinklacanvaswraps/index.html

[Vuurtoren]

Thankyou Ernst, you've been a great help.  I notice though that you have placed Hahnemuhle Museum Etching in the Heavy textured category and German etching in Medium.  I have both papers and have printed on them.  From a visual standpoint I would have said that Museum etching is a medium.  Torchon is obviously heavy.  Any comments?

[Ernst Dinkla]

Thankyou Ernst, you've been a great help.  I notice though that you have placed Hahnemuhle Museum Etching in the Heavy textured category and German etching in Medium.  I have both papers and have printed on them.  From a visual standpoint I would have said that Museum etching is a medium.  Torchon is obviously heavy.  Any comments?

I added "to my eyes" as it remains a subjective issue. Of the samples I have GE is slightly smoother (higher frequency texture) than the Museum Etching, the last is a bit heavier in weight too. If you are familiar with HM papers you will notice differences between manufacturing batches. And the felt in the Foudrinier gets filthy at the end of a production run which gives more texture and also more of the dreaded flaking of German Etching. Recently this has been a major problem for the largest customer of GE in The Netherlands (not me) who rejected two deliveries. It seems new production is scheduled at the end of the year. So it is very possible to find samples that are in reversed order of surface texture. Even the smooth Photorag varies in surface texture between batches. I consider to bring Museum Etching to the Medium Textured map. As written, it is subjective :-)

met vriendelijke groeten, Ernst Dinkla

Try: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/

[Vuurtoren]

Mmm, never occured to me about the actual differences in batch productions, I have had four sample packs from them all matte and never noticed anything but of course what you say is right - I shall bear that in mind. Thanks Ernst. Especially about the flaking issue.

[Alan Goldhammer]

Mmm, never occured to me about the actual differences in batch productions, I have had four sample packs from them all matte and never noticed anything but of course what you say is right - I shall bear that in mind. Thanks Ernst. Especially about the flaking issue.

The one thing I've noticed about Hahnemuhle matte papers in general is that they are very dusty compared to the Museo counterparts.  You do need to brush all matte papers (if you use single sheets in a printer like the Epson 3880) otherwise the rollers will get coated with dust and require frequent cleaning.  I have printed on HM William Turner and it is particularly bad in this respect.  I've not noticed any flaking probably because the two boxes I've worked through were in the "good" batch category but I've now switched to Museo Textured Rag.

[Vuurtoren]

Alan I have never been able to see Museo line of matte.  Do you know how your textured rag compares with Hahnemuhle's German and/or Museum etching please?