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Author Topic: Technically Re-Phrased on subject of Paper thickness  (Read 3007 times)

Vuurtoren

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Technically Re-Phrased on subject of Paper thickness
« on: August 24, 2010, 04:50:54 am »

Ok, why the paper thickness question from previous post:

Having been doing many tests with the complete range of matte textured papers from Permajet and Hahnemuhle and Tecco.  There seems to be an inconsistency in a couple of manufacturers recommended settings with respect to paper thichness.  For example Tecco Baryt Ivory is a 6 when in actual measurement it is a 4 (360 um or 0.34mm) This is not a 6 in epson paper thickness setting.  Also I put Permajet Parchment under their recommended settings of "Watercolour Radiant White" Platen Gap "Auto" Paper thickness "3".  Then in goes the champion (or so I thought - save the best till last) His majesty the Torchon from Hahnemuhle.  Recommended settings of "Velvet Fine Art" Platen Gap of "auto" and paper thickness at "5".

Hahnemuhle's Torchon has a thickness of 0.5mm and the Permajet Parchment 0.48mm.  These are both strictly speaking a 5 in epson settings while permajet went through under a setting of 3 delivering spectacularly more crisper edges and midtone renditions than the Torchon.  These two papers have exactly the same sound same texture and same weight and have an almost identical white point. I then put the Hahnemuhle Torchon through under a 3 and got exactly the same results as I did with the Parchment from Permajet.

The platen gap increases the distance between ink nozzle and paper, this can be used to advantage in getting a softer print but it is, as far as I am aware, raised to allow for thicker papers, in case of head strikes and scuffing sounds.  So what is the relationship between the platen gap and Paper thickness setting - what does the latter do inside the printer itself.  Then maybe I can understand why physical paper thickness and thickness setting are often inconsistent variables set by some manufacturers of some of their papers.

thankyou

Chris.
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gromit

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Re: Technically Re-Phrased on subject of Paper thickness
« Reply #1 on: August 24, 2010, 06:49:56 pm »

So what is the relationship between the platen gap and Paper thickness setting - what does the latter do inside the printer itself.

My understanding is that the thickness setting is ignored unless the platen gap is set to Auto, in which case it will compute the gap from the thickness. Note that the printer will also set the gap wider if it physically detects overly thick paper (or leading paper curl). It does this to protect the heads.
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Vuurtoren

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Re: Technically Re-Phrased on subject of Paper thickness
« Reply #2 on: August 24, 2010, 06:58:22 pm »

Hi there, thanks for your reply.  Unfortunately, on both settings the platen gap was at zero and the thickness settings did indeed affect the print quality.  I don't think that the thickness setting is ignored, I have been using the epson 3800 for two years with many papers and the thickness setting is something apart from the platen gap.  If you choose one of epson matte papers I think the archival you will see that the platen gap is always at zero but the thickness setting changes automatically.
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gromit

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Re: Technically Re-Phrased on subject of Paper thickness
« Reply #3 on: August 24, 2010, 07:11:42 pm »

If you choose one of epson matte papers I think the archival you will see that the platen gap is always at zero but the thickness setting changes automatically.

Zero?
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Vuurtoren

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Re: Technically Re-Phrased on subject of Paper thickness
« Reply #4 on: August 25, 2010, 04:50:24 am »

Ok it's pretty obvious I made a typing/brain mistake enhanced matt is auto then 2 and archival matt is auto then 2 - The point is paper thickness needs changing - but this is a digression and I just want to know the answer to my question for very practical reasons as mentioned above.

thankyou
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gromit

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Re: Technically Re-Phrased on subject of Paper thickness
« Reply #5 on: August 25, 2010, 06:24:36 am »

Ok it's pretty obvious I made a typing/brain mistake enhanced matt is auto then 2 and archival matt is auto then 2 - The point is paper thickness needs changing - but this is a digression and I just want to know the answer to my question for very practical reasons as mentioned above.

My understanding is that it works like this. Every paper type has its own thickness, set in the driver dialog when you select it. Each Platen Gap setting supports a range of paper thicknesses, for example Narrow up to 0.2mm, Standard for 0.3mm to 0.7mm, Wide for 0.8mm and up etc (these exact numbers may or may not apply to a specific model). You can either let the printer/driver derive the Platen Gap by specifying Auto (for example if the paper is 0.5mm it will select Standard) or specify any Platen Gap you want, in which case the paper thickness will be ignored. Clear now?
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Vuurtoren

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Re: Technically Re-Phrased on subject of Paper thickness
« Reply #6 on: August 25, 2010, 06:39:30 am »

Eventually got in touch with Epson, and got the answer.  Thought I might share it with you since you were kind enough to respond in the first place.  The Thickness setting adjusts the rollers inside the printer and tells how much pressure the rollers should exert downwards onto the paper.  A greater thickness settings allows more movement between the paper and the rollers.  A setting of 1 will squash the paper very tightly against the roller.  How this translates into the difference between a sharp image and a soft image still baffles me, the test I did with hahnemuhle Torchon demonstrates this difference clearly.  But I still can not see how a smaller setting than what is recommended would translate into a sharper image?  This baffles me.
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Vuurtoren

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Re: Technically Re-Phrased on subject of Paper thickness
« Reply #7 on: August 25, 2010, 06:46:20 am »

""""You can either let the printer/driver derive the Platen Gap by specifying Auto (for example if the paper is 0.5mm it will select Standard) or specify any Platen Gap you want, in which case the paper thickness will be ignored."""

The platen gap always goes on auto for ALL of epson paper media types.  If you use, for example, Ilford galerie or permajet museum or hahnmuhle baryta and selct the recommended paper meadia setting as specified by the company the platen gap goes always to auto.  This is not good most of the time because you often have to set the platen gap to wide.  So paper thickness and platen gap do not synchronise very well.  The paper thickness setting is just that, Papre thickness, and does not relate to platen gap setting in the way that you described.
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gromit

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Re: Technically Re-Phrased on subject of Paper thickness
« Reply #8 on: August 25, 2010, 06:55:16 am »

The paper thickness setting is just that, Papre thickness, and does not relate to platen gap setting in the way that you described.

I give up!
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Vuurtoren

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Re: Technically Re-Phrased on subject of Paper thickness
« Reply #9 on: August 25, 2010, 07:16:07 am »

Ok, what printer do you have then?
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Dano Steinhardt

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Re: Technically Re-Phrased on subject of Paper thickness
« Reply #10 on: August 25, 2010, 11:46:24 am »

Saw this, talked with colleagues and the following might help explain a few things about the platen gap.

Per some earlier posts, wanted all to know that I am the Marketing Manager for Professional Imaging at Epson America

With the latest generation Stylus Pro printers (it might be different for older printers) the platen gap has various automatic settings depending on the originating thickness of the paper.

There is a sensor that detects this thickness and breaks it into 3 steps as:

0.4mm or thinner
0.5mm - 08.mm
0.9mm - 2-0mm

Then within each of the 3 steps is the ability to set:

Narrow
Standard
Wide
Wider
Widest.

Standard is the "default"

Platen gaps will range from 0.8mm to 2.6mm

What is being controlled is the distance from the printhead to the surface of the platen, taking the media thickness into account.

The smaller the platen pap the better the print quality. However there is a risk of head strike and paper scuffing if the paper has too much curl.   The usually happens on the leading edge of the paper entering the printer.

The improvement in quality by going to a lower platen gap setting is due the decrease in droplet "flight time" from the print head to the paper and accuracy of resulting dot placement.  This might help explain the original question.  But AVOID the temptation to use a lower platen gap setting than recommended (in pursuit of higher quality) which may lead to head strikes, scuffing and more issues.


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Vuurtoren

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Re: Technically Re-Phrased on subject of Paper thickness
« Reply #11 on: August 25, 2010, 12:44:55 pm »

Hallo Dano, nice to meet you.

So was the tech guy at epson support (who I know is not technical at all) was he misleading in his information?

Secondly thanks for this but what then happens when you set two different settings: One with a platen gap of wide and a paper thickness of 3 and the other with a platen gap of wide and a paper thickness of 5 or 6.  Simply put, paper manufacturers often give these two settings so the paper thickness setting must be independent from the platen gap? This is the source of my confusion and this question only arose because of my trials with hahnemuhle and parmajet matte papers when the paper thickness setting altered the quality of the image even though the platen gap stayed the same on my tests?

thanks
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Dano Steinhardt

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Re: Technically Re-Phrased on subject of Paper thickness
« Reply #12 on: August 25, 2010, 02:41:24 pm »

If I understand your question correctly, there is a relationship between the paper thickness setting and the platen gap.  But when using non-Epson papers in an Epson Stylus Pro printer, its best to use that particular paper manufacturer's recommended settings.
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Vuurtoren

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Re: Technically Re-Phrased on subject of Paper thickness
« Reply #13 on: August 25, 2010, 04:54:39 pm »

Hi Dano, yes of course and I agree wholeheartedly.  And thankyou for taking the time to respond to the above.
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