Pain in the Blad

[robert zimmerman]

 
had a technologigal breakdown last week with my new macbook pro and phocus.
first off it took me 4 firewire cables, two different versions of phocus and two laptops to figure out that my new macbook pro won't connect to the camera with a cable longer tan 5 meters. that's not very long in my book. and noone had a hub or power thing for a fw 800 port.
after that phocus crashed thre times during shooting. have no idea why. latest firmware, newest software, etc., etc.
 
took the new mb pro back to the store, picked it up today – no hardware problems...which means I can clean install the system for the tenth time and hope that everything mysteriously works next time...

on the second day of the shoot i brought my old mb pro and ran an older version of phocus without any major crashes...does one count?
but man was it slow. had to change folders after every 100 shots to keep things at an exceptable pace.
the fw cable only came loose three times, despite all the gaffer tape holding it in place.

not saying this to p*ss anybody off but my canon was the only thing to work flawlessly during the whole week. video and stills. no problems, period.

just a heads up to anyone buying a new book and using hasselblad/phocus - be prepaired...

anyone have any suggestions on what might be causing the problems?

[Nick-T]

anyone have any suggestions on what might be causing the problems?

Yes... "Apple" and I say that as a long time Apple fan-boy. They keep diddling around with the firewire spec to the point where it looks like they have lost interest in it. The culprit is most likely flaky output voltage from your laptop, I have seen examples of variation in power output between to mac laptops of the exact same model. The other issue is the FW connection, who on earth designed such a poor fitting cable I will never know. I'd look at using an un-powered firewire repeater which means you can use a short lightweight cable from the mac to the repeater then a longer cable from there. FWIW I shoot to a unibody 15in with a 10M FW cable with no stability issues what so ever.
Finally I'll plug my blog where I wrote a piece on tethering:

http://www.nick-t.com/blog/2010/03/best-practice-or-how-to-tether-in-style/

Nick-T

[amsp]

I'd look at using an un-powered firewire repeater which means you can use a short lightweight cable from the mac to the repeater then a longer cable from there. FWIW I shoot to a unibody 15in with a 10M FW cable with no stability issues what so ever.
Finally I'll plug my blog where I wrote a piece on tethering:

http://www.nick-t.com/blog/2010/03/best-practice-or-how-to-tether-in-style/

Nick-T

Which firewire repeater are you using?

cheers

[Esben]

Are you using an MBP 17” ?
Most often the MBP 15” has a higher firewire voltage. Some people might blame Apple, and I totally agree that its pretty annoying that the specs differentiate as they do, but if I was a DB manufacturer and wanted to make things rock-solid. I would then look at how Phase solved the problem by using an optional battery for powering the DB.
Hasselblad would most likely be able to do the same by using the same power-source as when you shoot un-tethered and it might be as simple as a firmware upgrade.

[Nick-T]

I'm using a repeater from Granite digital.

This problem does seem to be specific to the 17 in Laptops. Hasselblad to have power management where the grip compensates for varying FW power but maybe the 17 is outside that spec. I have heard of other brands having issues with tethering on the 17s too..

[Dustbak]

There currently is an issue with the new MBP's. Not just the 17" but also the 15". Voltage can fluctuate as much as 1V causing backs to go offline. This is very annoying but apparently it can be resolved by using a simple firewire repeater. Even a passive one will do the trick. I have tried sofar with a FW400-FW400 repeater which works very well. I am still waiting for my FW800-FW800 repeater.

The Lindy cables have repeaters attached but I find them too thick.

I have the same issue with one of my backs. The other has no issues whatsoever.

I use a MBP15, I always did since these tended not to suffer from power issues. BTW with the firewire repeater I can drain my MBP to 5% without so much of a hickup.

[David Grover / Capture One]

Are you using an MBP 17” ?
Most often the MBP 15” has a higher firewire voltage. Some people might blame Apple, and I totally agree that its pretty annoying that the specs differentiate as they do, but if I was a DB manufacturer and wanted to make things rock-solid. I would then look at how Phase solved the problem by using an optional battery for powering the DB.
Hasselblad would most likely be able to do the same by using the same power-source as when you shoot un-tethered and it might be as simple as a firmware upgrade.

Hi Esben,

We have already enabled such a feature.

If the power output is not sufficient on the firewire supply then the camera will automatically switch to battery power.

However, what we have seen from preliminary testing is that the Firewire output will momentarily drop causing a camera disconnect.

So it is not a power issue of sorts, more of a stability issue. 

Using even a passive repeater appears to stabilise the connection.  We have hag good results with this product...

http://www.lindy.co.uk/5m-firewire-800-active-extension-cable/32918.html

Works well as you can have a lighter weight cable from the Lindy to the camera.  Otherwise as Nick states, Granite do a decent FW800 repeater as well.

David

[Dick Roadnight]

Hi Esben,

We have already enabled such a feature.

If the power output is not sufficient on the firewire supply then the camera will automatically switch to battery power.

However, what we have seen from preliminary testing is that the Firewire output will momentarily drop causing a camera disconnect.

So it is not a power issue of sorts, more of a stability issue. 

Using even a passive repeater appears to stabilise the connection.  We have hag good results with this product...

http://www.lindy.co.uk/5m-firewire-800-active-extension-cable/32918.html

Works well as you can have a lighter weight cable from the Lindy to the camera.  Otherwise as Nick states, Granite do a decent FW800 repeater as well.

David

Thanks, David

And what do you do when you are using a Hasselblad (60) back on a view camera on a 10m or 25m tripod?

Yes, I do have a 10m tripod, and I have been thinking of mounting it on a 14m cherry picker.

[Dustbak]

In that case you are probably already using the back tethered with a cablelength that has at least one repeater already in between. Should be no problem other than the length of the firewire cable and the issues that can come into play with that.

I just received my FW800-FW800 repeater. It is a Gefen that can be used as a passive but you could also inject power into it. A nice squarish fairly small box. Problem seems to be gone!! My multishot back which I could only use when I would restart Phocus after each shot or each multishot (sometimes even in between shots of a multishot) is continuously working for at least an hour without problems. It no longer goes offline.

[robert zimmerman]

yes, i have the 17 inch mb pro. my dealer and my rental place both told me i need a powered hub to run the long cable.
are you suggesting otherwise? i'd much rather not have to deal with one more outlet/plug/power source.

i did finally find the source of some of my problems.

never migrate from one mac to the next. i seemed to have migrated some software that was causing conflicts with snow leapard.

never make folders for software, esspecially adobe software. i carried this over as a habit from older osx versions and apparently organiing software in folders in applications will cause crashes. maybe this was also what happened with phocus, i don't know.

it also seems that a whole boatload of modems out there have firmware issues with intel macs or snow lepard.
my telephone company won't admit to it, but after talking to a tech guy at the computer store he told me to check for a firmware update for my modem.
it worked, no more connection problems. at least not at home.
i may now very well have to personally update the firmware of every modem in every office, studio, agency or location i need to work at...or go without internet or email.

thanks for the tips and info!

best, kipling

[Dustbak]

I have never used a powered firewire hub or repeater. I hate the hassle of another power source as well. On my MBP15 and various other machines I own I have more than once ran 10mtr firewire cables with nothing more than a passive repeater in between. Without problems. Advantage of this repeater (and some others) is that it has a power injector optionally. If you really have to you can plug in any charger that delivers between 12V-30V with a max of 1.35A (doesn't say at which voltage though).

The only reason I did not buy a 17" the last couple of years is because there was a time that Leaf backs had issues with it. When the power in the battery of the 17" would drop below 50% there wasn't enough juice in the laptop anymore to start the Leaf back. No issues when attached to the grid AFAIK. With the HBlad's I have ran the MBP15" almost dry (sweating bullets and swearing in myself and praying the charger would come in time  ) to under 5%. This was with my CF39.

The CF39MS had these problems with a topped up battery and hooked up to the grid. As I said problem is gone with the repeater in between.

[UlfKrentz]

Hi Dick,

we were recently playing around with a Gefen FW Extender plus and Leaf Backs. The Gefen Extender plus converts the FW800 signal to fiber optics and reconverting to FW800. The unit at the camera needs power supply, but that could be done with batteries. "Cable" length is no topic with this solution. Might be worth a look though it is not a cheap solution.

Cheers, Ulf

[BrendanStewart]

I too have been using a 17" MBP with lindy repeater with great success. No issues whatsoever. Battery drowns beneath 50% too.

[Dick Roadnight]

Hi Dick,

we were recently playing around with a Gefen FW Extender plus and Leaf Backs. The Gefen Extender plus converts the FW800 signal to fiber optics and reconverting to FW800. The unit at the camera needs power supply, but that could be done with batteries. "Cable" length is no topic with this solution. Might be worth a look though it is not a cheap solution.

Cheers, Ulf

Hi, Ulf.

Thanks... I had heard of fiber optic solutions, and it will probably be the best answer, for a small proportion of the cost of the whole setup.