shifting to MF

[alifatemi]

I am thinking of shifting to MF around 40 Mb and spend around 20-25k $ for camera and back. I do mostly landscape and sometimes fashion. my choices are Hasselblad H4D40 or Phase one 45+. Assuming both have rather the same quality or very near, as Micheal mentioned in his review of phase one 45+, my concern is that I can easily upgrade phase one back in future without buynig new body but not the same with Hasselblad. what is your recommendations or any hint and suggestions please? I have not tryed any MF before just downloaded some files that were amazing and also reading some articles that says working with MF is not that easy.Thanks.

[JonathanBenoit]

These two backs are very different. The Hasselblad is a 1.3 crop while the Phase is closer to full frame at 1.1 crop. The Hasselblad also has microlenses while the Phase does not. Since you shoot mostly landscapes, I think it's an easy choice for the P45+.

[Professional]

I traded my H3DII-39 for H4D-60 and paying the difference, doens't matter for me if i just replace the back only or the body completely, it will be almost same with Phase One as you replace the back only, but the advantage of Phase One from what i can see and i am not expert is that Phase One back you can use it on different bodies and Hasselblad H3D/H4D you can't, but at the end body is nothing much that i care much about as H4D body is enhanced a bit over H3D body, so i will replace even the body if i want new digital Hasselblad, but about the price it will be the same if you get another digital back regardless of the price because the most price either Hasselblad or Phase One is on the digital back not on the body i think, so i will pay the same if i have Phase One 45+ and to replace it for P65+ or if H3D39 to H4D60, i am sure Hasselblad/Phase One dealers or salesmen here will answer you better.

[Professional]

H3DII-39 is equivalent to P45+, so H4D40 is equivalent to P40+ not P45+, keep that in mind.

[Doug Peterson]

Working with MF can indeed be challenging. That said with the right partners (friends or colleagues you might have, forum participation, or a dealer that does more than just sell you a box) it's really not that challenge. If you're new to MF I would encourage you to find a dealer that can provide you the information, troubleshooting, teaching, and equipment you need to make this a fun, fluid, and technically beneficial transition rather than a frustrating, annoying, mistake-filled blunder.

All that said you should consider the long term investment you're about to make quite carefully. Digital back owners almost always keep their backs for longer than a dSLR owner keeps their dSLR and although nothing prevents you from switching platforms or brands it can be expensive (both in time and money) to switch brands once you've chosen (not much different than from switching from Canon to Nikon except often significantly more expensive).

With that in mind evaluate your long term technical needs.

Is a technical camera like a Cambo Wide RS or Alpa (etc etc) possibly in your future? Many serious landscape photographers on and off of this board use a technical camera as their main camera, switching to SLR bodies only for specific needs. If so all Phase One backs have their own battery which powers the back when on a non SLR body. Phase One's LCC system also allows the correction of both color and lens-vignetting when used with a tech camera with excellent quality results.

Phase One's processing software Capture One is world-class and is the choice of many SLR users. There is a free download available for the software, but like any high-end software there is a learning curve and the true power of the software, tools like the Color Editor, only become apparent once you've been instructed and spend time with them. LL has a set of instructional videos, phaseone.com has free online videos, and we (Capture Integration) run online and in-person workshops.
http://www.captureintegration.com/2010/08/20/online-training-5-1-2/.
http://www.captureintegration.com/our-company/upcoming-events/
http://www.llvj.com/videos/download-videos.shtml
http://www.phaseone.com/en/Software/Capture-One-5-Pro/Pro-Tutorials.aspx

Also consider long exposure for which the P45+ is the undisputed king with high-quality exposures possible up to an hour (or even longer if it's cold outside). Medium format requires a higher f-stop to achieve the same DOF as 35mm so you'll often find yourself at f/11-16 and if you throw in a polarizing or other filter and then shoot before dawn or after dusk you'll find yourself in several minute exposures more often than dSLRs.

All that said, know that I work for a company that sells Phase One and not Hasselblad and would be the first one to say that all of the high-end solutions are good, and that the differences are in the details. You'll be hard pressed to find a solution you don't like, so get your hands on the ones that seem most likely to make you happy and start shooting.

Nothing can replace your own hands on testing.

Doug Peterson (e-mail Me)
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[Will Ophuis]

Ive had my H4D-40 for a week and a half now and I bought it Mainly for landscapes (upgraded from 5d mkII and bunch of L glass) and Im very happy with the results i'm getting and the way the camera controls are layed out etc, I think you should try out both cameras first and see which one you favour, also with the long exposures the H4D-40 can do 4 min 16 second max exposure which I find is long enough for pretty much anything I want to do.

[David Watson]

Hi

I shifted totally to MF for my architectural and landscape work a few yeras ago and chose to use Hassleblad for no other reason than that I had previously used Hasselblad film cameras and like the system.

I now have two HD3-39 Mk 2 camera bodies and most of the Hasselbald lens range.  I also use a Rollie Xact2 technical camera with the Hasselblad back and Schneider lenses.  The Hasselblad lenses are very good indeed but the Schneider lenses are slightly better.  Schneider lenses are available for the Phase One camera so that would be a big plus for me but there are only a few focal lengths available.  Hasselblad has the brilliant HCD28mm, 210mm and 300mm which are all extremely good and very sharp lenses.  I also like the fact that the Hasselblad system is totally integrated and works off one battery in the grip which is not necessarily true of Phase One when used with different camera bodies.  There are also issues with camera shake with certain bodies due to the different shutters used and it is worth reading the thread on that subject in this forum.

Finally the HD3-39 has a 1:1 factor (unlike the HD4-40).  Hasselblad owned Pro Centre in London always has slightly used HD3-39's available at a very good price or you can contact your local Hasselblad rep who will supply direct.  Anything coming from Hasselblad as ex demo will have a full twelve month warranty and you can buy into the Hasselblad Care system which gives you a 24 hour replacement in most countries and FOC repair.

Starting again I would be very tempted by the Phase One P65 and the Schneider lenses but from a cost and practicality point of view would probably end up with what I have got.

Hope this in some way helps you.

Best wishes

David

[gazwas]

I read this topic with interest as I too am pondering MFD after 2 years with the Canon 1DsIII.

My background is with Phase One backs and have used previous to the last 2 years Phase P20, P30 and P25 all of which seemed pretty straight forward to understand range wise. Now however, apart from the obvious top of the tree P65 I don't quite understand the range hierarchy.

I too have been looking at the P45 for its long exposure potential, no micro lenses so can be used with view cameras, large 1:1 sensor and large pix size but increasingly read the newer P40 is actually a better back than the P45. How does a back that offers less of the above be better? Same Goes with the HD3-39 and HD4-40......

Confused..... 

[BernardLanguillier]

I too have been looking at the P45 for its long exposure potential, no micro lenses so can be used with view cameras, large 1:1 sensor and large pix size but increasingly read the newer P40 is actually a better back than the P45. How does a back that offers less of the above be better? Same Goes with the HD3-39 and HD4-40......

Confused..... 

There is no simple answer. The P45+ features a larger but older chip with better long exposures image quality. The P40+ is probably better along most other metrics due to its chip being a few years younger but it is smaller.

Cheers,
Bernard

[alifatemi]

but what about architectural photography; whitch one is better Hassy or phase one? which one has better tilt and shift accessories?

[PatrikR]

If you're buying a P45 you might want to check the used market. There is a lot of available P45+ cameras. For instance a friend is selling his mint P45+ with the Mamiya AFD2 and 80mm lens for 6500 euros. Not bad!

P45+ is still excellent. Mine is over 3 years old and 0 problems and absolutely no need to upgrade.

And since you're into landscapes the original P45 can do infrared with opaque filter while the P45+ can't. Mamiya 645AFD has a nice 28mm lens which is pretty commonly used wide angle lens for architecture. If you need wide angle with movements you need another type of camera like the Sinar Artec or Horseman SWD or Cambo...

[tho_mas]

but what about architectural photography; whitch one is better Hassy or phase one? which one has better tilt and shift accessories?

Hasselblad has the HTS tilt/shift adapter (maginification factor 1.5 ... so wide angle is limited). So with a SLR type body this might be very interessting.
However for architecture, i.e. wide angle photography with movements (shift/tilt), a tech camera with digital large format lenses makes more sense.
On tech cameras I'd say Phase, Leaf and Sinar backs are easier to use as they don't need external power supply (the Hassy-backs need one).

As to H40 vs. P45(+) - referring to the 645 image format the H40 has a crop factor of 1.3, the P45 a crop factor of 1.1.
So if you need wide angle, the larger sensor is more usefull.
The H40's sensor is microlensed. This is why its use on a tech camera is very limited with regard to lens- resp. back-movements.
However this is not an issue with Hasselblads HTS adapter. But if you consider the H40 & HTS the crop factor is 1.3 for the sensor and 1.5 for the HTS so the widest lens, i.e. the 28mm, translates to a 55mm lens...

[Dick Roadnight]

... if you need wide angle, the larger sensor is more usefull.
The H40's sensor is microlensed. This is why its use on a tech camera is very limited with regard to lens- resp. back-movements.
However this is not an issue with Hasselblads HTS adapter. But if you consider the H40 & HTS the crop factor is 1.3 for the sensor and 1.5 for the HTS so the widest lens, i.e. the 28mm, translates to a 55mm lens...

The Hasselblad 39, 50 and 60Mpx backs are, I believe mirco-lens free, and suitable for use with large movements.

[ondebanks]

And since you're into landscapes the original P45 can do infrared with opaque filter while the P45+ can't.

Really? That certainly got my attention!

But how is this possible? I thought that there were no filtration differences between P and P+ backs. I'd love to know more about this.

[Doug Peterson]

P+ has a stronger filter against IR than P.

IR photography is possible, but not ideal. Better to buy an Achromatic+ from us which has a fully monochromatic sensor with a sensitivity range from far-IR all the way to medium UV and thereby can do any level/range/type of IR photography.

We also do take backs like P45 in on trade frequently and sell those with warranties and dealer support :-).

 

[font="Arial"]Doug Peterson (e-mail Me)
__________________
Head of Technical Services, Capture Integration
Phase One, Leaf, Cambo, Canon, Apple, Profoto, Eizo & More
National: 877.217.9870  |  Cell: 740.707.2183
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[/font]

[tho_mas]

IR photography is possible

I thought the bulit in IR filter has to be removed first...?
How can I shoot IR with the P45 with the regular IR filter?

[Doug Peterson]

Like I said - "not ideal".

The filter in the P45 is strong, it's just not as strong as in the P45+.

So if you filter visible light more than the IR filter filters the IR light then you can take IR images.

I did the same thing with an Olympus E-10 (unmodified) many years ago. Exposure times ended up being in the 20-30 second range for f/11 ISO80.

Think of it this way: if the IR filter removes 8 stops of IR light then to shoot IR images you'd need 10+ stops of filtration on the visible light (without any significant filtration of visible light) to insure that most of the light hitting the sensor is IR light.

I've not done this myself, but I've also had the luxury of using the AChromatic+, P45+ IR-modified, and P21 IR-modified digital backs so I've had my "fix" and don't need any more IR-drugs.
http://www.captureintegration.com/2009/02/12/moab-black-and-white/
http://www.captureintegration.com/2010/02/09/oregon-panoramics/
http://www.captureintegration.com/2008/06/09/p45-ir/

[tho_mas]

many thanks!

[alifatemi]

there is a friend here in DPR that believes MF is nonsense somehow. any reply?! check it for yourself:
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1000&message=36134748

[JonathanBenoit]

There is a lot of inaccurate information on all photography forums, but dpreview is by far the worst forum for photographers. Mostly because so many uneducated picture-takers post on it.