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Author Topic: My marketing woes with regards to pro photographers and their printing needs?  (Read 4975 times)

dgberg

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Doing a little marketing research here in the dog days of summer. Early this summer I sent a small packet promoting our printmaking services to about 150 professional photographers all from southeastern Pa.
Included in the mailer was an offer for a free canvas print 17" x 22".  The only requirement to receive the canvas print was for the business owner or represenative to tour our printmaking studio. We were hoping to get several dozen of these principals in our facility to show them our capabilities. Did not go so well. Had 1 response out of 150. I'm sure many are printing themselves or are happy with their present printers.
I'm thinking I went too cheap on the print offer. That canvas print retails for about $25 but costs me less then that.  So now I am getting ready for round 2. If you did not know our business model is canvas printing. Our plan is to get as many of these pro photographers to offer our large canvas gallery wraps to their clients. This time around I am thinking of a free canvas gallery wrap for them to hang in their studio ,plus some sort of larger discount on the first canvas print order.  I do not mind in the least giving away a $75 or $100 gallery wrap plus maybe a 50% first order discount but I must be prepared to pony up if I get 50 calls. Almost all of my present printing is for the photo enthusiest group. Local photo club, etc. They love to come in look through all the paper choices. Sit down and help in post processing their images and stay to see the final prints.  (Cannot do that at Mpix.)
If you think the gallery wrap is still a bad angle,what are your thoughts? What would get you to drive 50 miles and take several hours out of your busy schedule?
« Last Edit: August 22, 2010, 09:37:14 am by Dan Berg »
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Bullfrog

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What would get you to drive 50 miles and take several hours out of your busy schedule?

Why do I need to?  

Now, let me say I'm in Canada - I'm just a small photographer, and my 2c is well....recently harmonized and has more tax than substance.  So, here's a story.

Years ago I owned a retail store (it was pet food) - anyway, I dealt with many suppliers to purchase stock.  Since it was repeat order type business, they all wanted me to order from them.   To get me to pick them over their competitor (who offered the exact same stock), for some reason they all wanted me to drive out to their warehouse to look at skids.

Something about my looking at their SKU's on skids on cement floors was supposed to ignite my passion.   Here I am flogging kibble every day in my store, working hard to develop my own customer base, and these guys think its a day at the spa to tromp around and look at SKU's.
 ::)
There was one guy who opened his warehouse about 1 month before me.  He wanted me to go - several times he invited me.  When I didn't go - he provided picutres.  He had uber shiny computers, fancy paint, and skids...with pet food on them (surprise).  

Yup, He was fancy, he was pretty..he went broke in 6 months.
 :P

So, here's my view on your offer.  I make more per hour each day than it costs me to produce a canvas print (talking the manufacturing side of things - not the actual time to photograph the image).  So, for me, its not an incentive.  And by definition, I would think pro photographers already know how to produce one - some might feel better than you can?  
 :-\

For me to drive 50 miles and spend several hours away - I would have to believe I'm going to leave with something more than a print.  What's more valuable?  KNOWLEDGE.  SKILL.  INNOVATION.

If you have found the cure for cancer - yeah, I think I might find time.  Or, maybe you don't have a cure, but you have some brilliant physicist who knows everything about the molecular form of cancer, and can provide a really good theory on how I might cure it.

Otherwise, I will troll the internet, hang out on forums like this where the good people offer free advice just for the asking, and take my chances.  
 :)

Edited to add:  Good luck ;D

« Last Edit: August 20, 2010, 01:54:48 pm by Bullfrog »
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Gemmtech

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Moderator's Note: This comment was not consistent with our guidelines and has been removed.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2010, 02:12:31 pm by Chris Sanderson »
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Bullfrog

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I think you missed Dan's point ENTIRELY, SNIP!!

Are you always this rude?
 
I think what you are doing can work, but I think you have to hit the payment and go door to door, or sponsor a lunch / dinner.  Getting a large group of people to attend an event takes some planning and it needs to be VERY INTERESTING.  FREE FOOD/DRINK DOESN'T HURT  ;)

So, your theory is to hell with offering a chance to gain knowledge, experience innovation and maybe learn a new skill (which if you read my post WAS the point), just stuff cheetos down their throat.

 ::)
« Last Edit: August 20, 2010, 02:21:40 pm by Chris Sanderson »
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Haraldo

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Hi Dan,

Here's my view... I think you've got it backwards. And I'm with Bullfrog on his example. No one wants to spend "several hours" losing money from their business to tour your plant to see what every pro photographer basically already knows: that you've got workstations, scanners, tables, viewing stations, and several large-format printers that print on canvas. Is that worth a photographer's lost day to see? I submit: No. And that's probably why you got 1/150 response rate.

I suggest you flip it around and do what service providers have done for ages: You go to see them. Take your 150-name database and starting calling -- or emailing -- them. Set up appointments to show them the best canvas printing they have ever seen (IMPORTANT NOTE: not all photographers like canvas. In fact, some hate it. Be prepared for that and use that question as a qualifier. And/or you might want to consider doing a line extension and also offer printing on other media like fine-art paper.)

But still make your offer to provide a free print. But only if they let you make your presentation *at their place, not yours.* You spend your time traveling instead of expecting them to spend theirs.

That's my suggestion. Good luck with it!

H
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Haraldo
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dgberg

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Thank you for your input Heraldo.
I have had 3 businesses over the past 30 years and this is the first one that has made me really dig deep into the marketing well.
As a pre retirement project at least I have a little extra time to get things up to speed.
Going out to meet these clients at their place of business makes pretty good sense.
What got me on the track of having business owners come to me was how things started with the photographers I now print for on a regular basis. I had great difficulty in getting customers to come our direction when I opened last year. (We are in the country and up to an hours drive for many.) As soon as clients started to trickle in they were hooked and kept coming back. These photographers I print for almost to a tee are very advanced enthusiest. I expect full time professional photographers will not have the same excitement level as the photography enthusiest. (Thus the enthusiest name!)
I have had a decent response with my workshops and will continue to pursue the photographers that have a keen interest in learning canvas printing and pano mounting.  All a work in progress

Haraldo

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... I have had a decent response with my workshops and will continue to pursue the photographers that have a keen interest in learning canvas printing and pano mounting. ...

Aha! Here's another idea. I see you're NW of Philly. How about a half- to full-day workshop in the Philly area. That's your biggest concentration of photogs. Partner up with a photo retailer and make it more than just about printing. Include someone to talk about Marketing (for photographers). And camera stuff. And image-editing. And finally: printing (by you!). Cater it. See if you can find a photographer's studio for a venue, or rent a hotel meeting room, or if the retailer has a meeting space (many do), ask them to host it; that will bring them customers, too. Big companies do this all the time (called a "road show"). Maybe you could do it in your own way.

H

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Haraldo
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Dward

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I have a printing business similar to Dan's---mostly gallery wrap canvas but also framed paper prints.   And I'm also in  Pennsylvania, just south of Philadelphia, so our areas of potential customers overlap.  I've always assumed that most professionals were simply too busy to visit unless they had urgent need of my services, though I'm delighted to show anyone the facilities.  I've gotten most of my business either by word of mouth or by going to customers myself rather than having them use their time to come here.   A strategy that has worked well for me is to offer to post-process and print a sample file that they've had done elsewhere, and compare the quality.   Almost all professionals either already have  print maker, or they do it themselves.   So the only reasons they'd switch to using me are: better quality, lower cost, and/or greater convenience.   In my experience, better quality than the competition is the key, as well as reliable service.   Pros need the prints when they need them, often on very short notice, and being able to deliver what they need at high quality when they need it seems to have been more important than price (though my prices are lower than most).  I also think it's important to tailor one's services to the circumstances of the customer--for example, for some customers, having the finished product delivered is important, while others prefer to pick up their work and save a few bucks.   

Also, it seems to be important to many customers to sit and watch the Photoshop work I do on their images, and any other post processing.   There are a lot of great professional photographers who aren't particularly skilled at Photoshop work, or at preparing files for printing generally.   They can sit and watch and make suggestions and react to variations I show them on screen until we get a good soft proof, and then I'll make a small proof print (or slice of a full size version).   That way, they are involved at every step, and have a feeling of control over the final product.  Sitting with customers and trying various Photoshop interpretations of their images is obviously time-consuming, but it's a service that many(most?) other print services can't provide.   For most of my customers, it seems to make all the difference.

Finally, there's the issue of what competition is in your area.   I'm only 25 miles from an astonishingly good printing service in Wilmington, De. called Colourworks.  The guys who run it are fine art photographers themselves and do the highest quality work.   No way I could print better than they do, and they have equipment like a Chromira that I will never have, in addition to the inkjets that we both use.   So I need something that distinguishes what I do from what they do---and in this case, it's allowing customers to sit and participate in the post-processing.

A suggestion that might pay off:   Contact the same 150 pros and offer to make a free sample print from an image they've had done elsewhere--they can ftp the file so there's little time-cost on their end.  I bet you'll pick up enough new customers to justify the expense.

David V. Ward
David V. Ward Fine Art Photography
www.dvward.com

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dgberg

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Thank you for the response Dr. Ward.
Excellent ideas. I have found that processing and printing when the customer is onsite works for me as well.
My invitation stands for you to stop up some day,lunch is on me.

shewhorn

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Response to a targeting bulk mailing like you did is typically about 1%. With the requirement to actually tour the facility, a 17"x22" is not nearly enough incentive to pull me away from the work that I have to get done. It's also somewhat of an odd size. 16x20, 16x24, 20x30, or 24"x36" is the native aspect ratio of digital SLRs. It would probably take at least a 20"x30" gallery wrap or just great prices to get me to pay attention.

Cheers, Joe
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dgberg

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Joe,
We did not give that much thought to the final size.  Printing off a 17" canvas roll usually comes close to 17 x 22. If someone had wanted a 16 x 24 it would not have made a difference we would have printed it. We are custom printers.  :) I do agree that it just was just too small. Am now working on another angle and will see how this goes?
« Last Edit: August 25, 2010, 04:31:24 pm by Dan Berg »
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Jeff Magidson

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Dan;

One thing that surprised me about your posting is your pricing. You are charging $25 for a 17x22 print on Canvas? Most of the custom shops in my area ( shops where the people REALLY know what they are doing as opposed to a Kinkos type operation) are charging about 2.5x that. I don't understand how you can make a living wage at your pricing unless you are doing massive volume.. and even then, or if it is a lost leader and you are making it up on other more profitable services ( stretching, framing, etc. )

just my 2 cents..

-Jeff

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dgberg

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Jeff,
That comes to about .07 a square inch and is only a canvas roll print. No varnish,no frame and no gallery wrap,just a print.
Thats $10.00 a square foot.  
Heck I'll print all the work you can send me and throw in a 20% resellers discount to boot!
I really doubt anyone is charging $25.00 a square foot for a canvas print.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2010, 02:51:24 pm by Dan Berg »
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framah

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I charge $18. sq ft for Epson Enhanced matte and $22 -$25  sq ft for heavy rag or canvas.

No problem getting it.

I don't care that you think you are doing great at that price. If the usual pricing is way more than that, you are leaving money on the table. You can still underprice your competition and make alot more than you are currently making.

Don't forget that your price also has to cover the cost of the machine and inks and electric and any other overhead costs in your business. It's not just how much the canvas costs.
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feppe

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Don't forget that your price also has to cover the cost of the machine and inks and electric and any other overhead costs in your business. It's not just how much the canvas costs.

And most importantly it has to pay for salary.

Sven W

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As a Pro Printing Studio, the cost for ink and media is about 15% of what we charge per print.
(It's no idea to give you the figures in my currency, because of circumstances that take to much more room to explain, than this tiny square.)

/Sven
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dgberg

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This is really a moot point as I rarely sell just plain rolled canvas prints.
Gallery wraps are our main product and go as high as $50.00 a square foot for the smaller ones.
Marketing and business is also not new to me.  I know a little more then the average bear about profit and loss statements. From 1977 to today I started 4 businesses. Logging and lumber company 10 years,Custom Furniture and Cabinetry 25 years,restaurant 10,Printmaking studio 2.
Sorry for the digression. We live in very different economies all across this country and around the world and I would expect to see quite a fluctuation in pricing. Goes with the territory if you know what I mean.

Ps. Swen you are right on as mine are 15.6%
« Last Edit: August 27, 2010, 09:46:06 pm by Dan Berg »
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Neuffy

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Re: My marketing woes with regards to pro photographers and their printing needs?
« Reply #17 on: September 23, 2010, 04:16:39 am »

Hopefully not excessively resurrecting. Under a month, shouldn't be too bad.

I find it interesting that you're mainly printing for enthusiasts, as that's who I mainly print for here in the Barren Wasteland of the North. That said, I'm downtown in a medium-large city.

It's great to see a couple markup ratios. I'm running without a storefront, and I'm in the 0.29-0.45 range cost:price (~2-4X media/ink cost).

framah:
$18/ft^2 EEM vs my $6CAD/ft^2
$22-25/ft^2 vs my $10-13CAD/ft^2
That said, my pricing is similar to other boutique printers in town. I think my cost:price ratio issue is due to me, for lack of another term, being foolish and using higher quality media in many cases without corresponding higher prices.

I'm curious as to whether people with a ~0.15 cost:price ratio are including a reprint/inefficiency buffer or not?

I think it's likely time to have a look at my pricing (non-revised in quite some time). Thanks, all.
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