Custom paper size in the Canon IPF drivers

[shewhorn]

This is something that's bugged me for a while, perhaps I'm doing something wrong. If I want to print a 10"x15" there's no size for that so I create one... easy enough. Unfortunately 10x15 does not seem to be 10"x15". If I'm printing to a 24" roll why would it not allow me to print the whole image. There's like a 0.2" border on every side and if you remove that border and enter 0 it complains that the image is larger than the printable area. Surely it must know the difference between the size of the image I'm printing and the size of the roll I'm printing to. Seems like in order to print a 10x15 I have to create a paper size that 10.5" x 15.5" and that's just silly.

Cheers, Joe

[Bullfrog]

I believe its because water resistant canvas profile is borderless - so regardless of your image size, the profile over-rides it.

I haven't actually tried to do what you are doing - its just my guess based on the fact I print on canvas all the time.

[Scott Martin]

Joe, it sounds like you've got margins built into your custom paper size. Create a 10x15 with no margins and you should be fine. That or place a 10x15 image on a larger page...

[Bullfrog]

OK, my post didn't make sense.  I found this in the Canon support manual  - not sure if it helps - :
********************
Important    
･ Borderless printing is only available with rolls.
･ Paper you can use for borderless printing is restricted to particular types of paper and rolls of particular widths. For information on types of paper compatible with borderless printing, refer to the Paper Reference Guide.  (See "Types of Paper.")

･ You cannot have pages rotated 90 degrees to conserve paper if you have set up borderless printing at actual size or in combination with resizing originals to match the paper size.

**************************

[shewhorn]

Joe, it sounds like you've got margins built into your custom paper size. Create a 10x15 with no margins and you should be fine. That or place a 10x15 image on a larger page...

Where would these mystery margins live... bah... I think I can read the manual for that. :-) When I create custom sizes I've noticed an area for margins, just width and height. Of course since that's all I'm usually interested in... maybe that's all I'm seeing.

[jgbowerman]

Where would these mystery margins live... bah... I think I can read the manual for that. :-) When I create custom sizes I've noticed an area for margins, just width and height. Of course since that's all I'm usually interested in... maybe that's all I'm seeing.

You got me on where they live. I played around with this borderless print issue on the 8300. I had already come to appreciate that with 11.0 x 8.5 cut sheets, my largest document size possible without clipping the image is 9.25" x 6.15" (the plugin preview wants ballpark one inch borders!). If I left the media size at 11.0 x 8.5, but selected Roll paper instead of Cut Sheet, the plugin preview does not start clipping the image until I get something over 10.5 x 7.0. I have only printed cut sheet paper with the cut sheet option selected and have not actually tried printing on cut sheet with roll paper selected, I'm not even sure if it would work. Regardless, it is perplexing behavior.

Joe, are you on the 6300 or 8300? I'm curious if the two printers are different regarding borderless defaults given their differences with cut sheet load-feeding.

[Pete Berry]

Where would these mystery margins live... bah... I think I can read the manual for that. :-) When I create custom sizes I've noticed an area for margins, just width and height. Of course since that's all I'm usually interested in... maybe that's all I'm seeing.

These "mystery margins" are the mimimal printable margins from the image in non-borderless mode. And you probably won't find in the doc. Basically, It won't let you print a full 10x15 on 10x15 cut sheet - it will have the 0.112" (or whatever its min. is) margin at the expense of cropping the image slightly. So for cut sheet, size the paper to the margins you want: eg for 1" margins all 'round, the paper custom size should be 12x17. The margin settings should be used only for positioning the image in a non-centered fashion, but are confusing even then because the number in the box is in addition to the minimal margin above - for a 1" margin, it will read 0.888.

Basically, forget about these and you'll be much happier just controlling image size in relation to paper size, and checking "center" which gives you the exact margins you want without unintended cropping.

Pete

[Bullfrog]

On the IPF 6100 - the margins can be viewed from the plug in (Driver in Adobe for Windows) by clicking File - Page Set Up.  However, When I tried to set the margins on an 18 x 8 inch print (using 24" canon canvas roll which does not permit borderless printing) the margin options were disabled - so for reasons I don't know, you can't use them. (on my canon printer)

I played around (becuase I too need to be able to print exact print sizes using a Canon printer) and was able to do it by creating a canvas size 2" larger than the Image size in Photoshop.

I then chose "centre image" in the layout tab of the page set-up menu and printed my 18x 8 image successfully - the printer still warned me that clipping would occur which suggests to me that it is just a default of the media type.

I did the same thing last night on German Etching watercolour paper - using a 34 x 20 " image set up in CS4 on a canvas of 38"x24" -

If you don't want any borders and the media allows for borderless printing -  I believe (but haven't tried) check borderless print option and/or select "fit to page" in the enlarge scale print option.  Fit to page will scale the print to the size you set.

[Pete Berry]

What you got was clipping, with appropriate warning, of the canvas, invisible because it was white. The printer views the canvas as printable, and if you had chosen a color it would have had the minimum white border around it.

If you want a centered print with margins larger than the minimum 0.112, you only need to make a custom page size appropriate to print size - your 34x20 image and custom paper size of 38x24.

The canvas option is useful if you want to offset the print, or have non-white borders. I also find it useful in borderless printing to avoid the inevitable image clipping when the image is slightly enlarged by the printer to compensate for minor variances in roll papers' heights and tracking. In my 5000, adding about 0.125" of canvas to top and bottom and .3" to each end worked, but this takes a bit of experimentation.

Pete

[Bullfrog]

I agree the clipping was not perceptible - I confess the rest of your post is confusing me (I'm easily confused these days it seems

Anyway, I think I need more practice - and then revisit your suggestions.
Thanks

[Pete Berry]

I agree the clipping was not perceptible - I confess the rest of your post is confusing me (I'm easily confused these days it seems

Anyway, I think I need more practice - and then revisit your suggestions.
Thanks

OK, let me try to cut to the nut:

1) The Margins" dialog is NOT for setting margin size, but only for manipulating your image away from a centered position. That's why it's not accessible when "Center Image" is checked.

2) Margins are set very simply and automatically in the relationship you choose between your image size and paper size, with "Center Image" checked. Let's say you want 1/2" margins, using 17" roll paper, for a standard 3:2 image aspect ratio. Your image HAS to be sized to 16x24 to achieve this, with a custom paper size of 17x25".

3) With cut sheet you have to crop and size your image to achieve the margins you want, since now the sheet size is fixed and the image is adjusted to it, so the aspect ratio of the image will go out the window IF you want even margins, as there are no standard paper sizes in perfect 3:2 ratio with anything but borderless 4x6 I know of.

4) For now, forget about "Margins" and "Canvas" until you get comfortable with sizing, and possibly cropping, your image to fit your paper and desired margins.

And good luck - the light will click on soon!

Pete

[Bullfrog]

Thanks for the detailed reply.  That really helps clarify the margins functionality.  I learn something new every day!

re:  canvas - I print on canvas (Canon's waterresistant 400 gsm) almost 90% of the time - and when I wrap it  the slight border is not an issue - its another story creating a canvas for traditional framing which means I want the image centered with a 2" border.

That said, I agree the custom page size should create the 2" border (ie I have a 38"x24" custom page size for a "34x20" print) - I have it set up in the printer, I will try when I next print.

My biggest issue is still the canvas not tracking properly - ie the length of the print is 38" but they are consistently (I mean over a period of months) printing to 37 3/4" or about 1/4" short.  I posted it on this thread (not to hijack this one)....if you have any ideas I would be grateful.
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?topic=45474.msg381981#new

[Pete Berry]

My biggest issue is still the canvas not tracking properly - ie the length of the print is 38" but they are consistently (I mean over a period of months) printing to 37 3/4" or about 1/4" short.  I posted it on this thread (not to hijack this one)....if you have any ideas I would be grateful.
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?topic=45474.msg381981#new

This 1/4" is suspiciously close to the sum of the minimum printable margins in that dimension. What was your custom paper size vs image size there. And were you using the Margins or Canvas utilities then in some way?

Pete

[Bullfrog]

Hi
My custom image size is 38"x24" - the image prints ~37.75x24 - and the white border prints within the 37.75x24 image size to reduce the print another 20mm (approximately - whatever the standard border is - I think its about 1/4")

To answer your second question - I do not use margins (meaning, I haven't touched the settings there) and I don't centre the image.

I just print it landscape - and choose the custom paper size (38x24) and set it for Canvas which is canon's profile.

In other words - I tried to keep it as simple as possible by using canon media on canon printer and just printing the entire image - I've printed several in the last months and (sadly) just clued in that they are a tad short -

It isn't an issue wrapping the canvas because I allow 2" bleeds all around - it will be an issue if I try to sell the same image with a 2"white border (for framing by the customer) because then I need the actual image to measure exactly 38" - not something close.

[Pete Berry]

Hi
My custom image size is 38"x24" - the image prints ~37.75x24 - and the white border prints within the 37.75x24 image size to reduce the print another 20mm (approximately - whatever the standard border is - I think its about 1/4")

I just print it landscape - and choose the custom paper size (38x24) and set it for Canvas which is canon's profile.



Then that's the problem! Since you can't use borderless mode, you can't print a 38x24 image on the same size paper without the image being cropped a bit on all sides with the obligatory mimimum borders, which total about .25" for each axis. So if you have to have your image exactly 38x24", your custom paper size has to be at least 38.25x24.25" - obviously not do-able on your 6100.

If not, just size the image to 37.25x23.75" for the 38x24" paper - the largest you can print for no printer cropping and preserved proportions.

Also, I'm curious why you don't check "center image". Seems this would leave the printer open to some ambiguity, unless you did want to offset the image. I've found the 5000's centering to be very precise.

Pete

[Bullfrog]

Hi Pete
I will try adding 1/4" to the length in the custom paper size and let you know.  I didn't believe borderless meant the actual image size would be cropped (I presumed it meant the image would be reduced within a finite paper size by a white border) - but I'm clearly learning.  

To clarify - the paper is not 38x24 - the paper is a roll which is 24" wide.  The custom print size I created is 38x24. 
I will however try and let you know - I appreciate any tips and thank you for your suggestions.

[Pete Berry]

"Hi Pete
I will try adding 1/4" to the length in the custom paper size and let you know.  I didn't believe borderless meant the actual image size would be cropped (I presumed it meant the image would be reduced within a finite paper size by a white border) - but I'm clearly learning.  

To clarify - the paper is not 38x24 - the paper is a roll which is 24" wide.  The custom print size I created is 38x24.  
I will however try and let you know - I appreciate any tips and thank you for your suggestions."



(Sorry, I scewed up the quote thing again. My reply follows - Pete)

Yes, I realize you are dealing with a 24" roll. And increasing your custom paper size to 38.25x24", while keeping the 38x24" image size, will give you the full, uncropped length, but the top and bottom of the width will have the obligatory crop of 1/8" each, so you might as well crop the image's width by your choice rather than the printer's, to 23.75".

Now, hopefully not top confuse things further, there is an elegant way to deal with this that lets the printer adjust paper length automatically to your image, with 1/8" borders at each end. Doesn't work with larger borders unless you add the appropriate canvas. This is using the printer driver (and I'm assuming the 6100 has this feature my 5000 does), rather than the plug-in, which may have it, or some variation - I don't know, as I don't use it. The procedure:

1) Establish a custom paper size the width of your roll, and longer than any future projected use - eg. 72x24"

2) Select roll paper source, and enter this oversized custom size in driver's Page Setup "page size".

3) Go to the driver "Layout" page and select "print centered" and "no spaces at top or bottom (conserve paper)". This means the paper's cut ends.

4) Then simply print, and your 38x23 3/4" image, or any other image from a 2x23 3/4" test strip to a 72x23 3/4" panorama will be printed in full, with the mimimal 1/8" margins all 'round.

Almost black magic - with a single custom paper size. These printers can be pretty smart after all!

About borderless mode, which you can't use with canvas. It's exactly as it states - no borders - so it prints full bleed for 24" width, and cuts flush at the ends. But to do this it will expand the image in all dimensions a bit to account for width and feed variations, which generally means that you will lose about 1/4" of image height in over-spray. And since the length is increased proportionally, with a 3:1 pano you may lose 3/4" total on the ends when it cuts to you page size length. So I compensate, if I want my full image, by sizing the image 1/4" short of paper width with an 1/8" canvas added to the top and bottom, and 3/8 to each end, and generally I get very near the full image and hopefully no tiny white borders to trim.  So borderless can be somewhat of a crap shoot, wheras you have precise control of image printed size otherwise.

Pete





 

[Bullfrog]

Hi Pete

Thanks very much - I have learned a great deal here in a very short time -which I can't thank you and others enough for.
I will bookmark this thread - some stuff I need to review a few times and practice before it sinks in.

Now the short answer: (winK)

I saw that "conserve paper" function and didn't know what it did ...yes I know where it is -   I get what you are saying and yes, it would be easy to use that option to run all my gallery wrap canvases.  This is good to know!
 

For the canvases I wish to print with a 2" white margin on all sides, I have already set up the 34x20 image in PS with a canvas size of 38x24 - and I printed it the other day (on watercolour paper) just opting for center image - it came out exactly correct. 

The big concern for me was I thought the printer feeder was "slipping" on the canvas making it print too short - but with this new knowledge, I expect my set up with margins in PS will ensure I get the image exactly correct.

LONG ANSWER:  The 1/4" hasn't been an issue (so far) because I wrapped the canvases - the actual image size is 34x20 - the 38x24 allowed for 2" bleeds.  In other words, I do it all, print it, wrap it, ship it.  The fact the printer was deducting 1/4" total on width and length didn't matter - I had another 1 3/4 inches to spare.

The issue going forward is that I now hope to sell the same 34x20 canvas with 2" white margins - (the image centered) - the purpose would be for people who don't want a gallery wrap and either want to mount it (on whatever) or have it traditionally framed.   In this application - I need the print to be EXACTLY 34" long and 20" wide.

[shewhorn]

Joe, are you on the 6300 or 8300? I'm curious if the two printers are different regarding borderless defaults given their differences with cut sheet load-feeding.

Hi Greg,

I'm on the 8300.

[Pete Berry]

Hi Pete

Thanks very much - I have learned a great deal here in a very short time -which I can't thank you and others enough for.
I will bookmark this thread - some stuff I need to review a few times and practice before it sinks in.

Now the short answer: (winK)

I saw that "conserve paper" function and didn't know what it did ...yes I know where it is -   I get what you are saying and yes, it would be easy to use that option to run all my gallery wrap canvases.  This is good to know!
 

For the canvases I wish to print with a 2" white margin on all sides, I have already set up the 34x20 image in PS with a canvas size of 38x24 - and I printed it the other day (on watercolour paper) just opting for center image - it came out exactly correct. 

The big concern for me was I thought the printer feeder was "slipping" on the canvas making it print too short - but with this new knowledge, I expect my set up with margins in PS will ensure I get the image exactly correct.

LONG ANSWER:  The 1/4" hasn't been an issue (so far) because I wrapped the canvases - the actual image size is 34x20 - the 38x24 allowed for 2" bleeds.  In other words, I do it all, print it, wrap it, ship it.  The fact the printer was deducting 1/4" total on width and length didn't matter - I had another 1 3/4 inches to spare.

The issue going forward is that I now hope to sell the same 34x20 canvas with 2" white margins - (the image centered) - the purpose would be for people who don't want a gallery wrap and either want to mount it (on whatever) or have it traditionally framed.   In this application - I need the print to be EXACTLY 34" long and 20" wide.

You're welcomed, Bullfrog!

For your last issue, just make your custom paper size 38x24", and with "center" checked it should be spot-on.

Pete