tripod for MF digital

[lowep]

Is camera shake more of an issue with MF digital sensors than with film, and if so (why?) can it be partly reduced by using a bigger tripod?

I am working with an eMotion75 on a Contax 645. Every time I fire the shutter the mirror goes KABOOM   - not as explosively as a Hassy but more than enough to scare away the crows. So mostly I shoot with a cable release and the camera locked down firmly on a medium-sized Manfrotto tripod. Despite this I come across traces of what I believe to be  camera shake in quite a few images. Sure it does not help that I often use rather slow shutter speeds - but I would have thought that if the camera is securely locked down on the tripod there should be no camera shake whatsoever no matter how slow the shutter speed, right?  

Heck even when the mirror is locked up I still get slightly shaky images sometimes.  

So am starting to suspect the problem may be that my tripod is not heavy enough to hold the camera firmly in place.

Hence my question: what size tripod do you use with your MFDB system?

What if any issues have you encountered with camera shake when shooting MF digital compared with shooting with either a smaller sensor DSLR or (JFK forbid!) film?

(of course I could have asked instead can I just blame the problem on gear and solve it by spending more money (on a bigger tripod) - but in the end opted to phrase the whole thing differently

[feppe]

I'd also like to know what recommendations people have for heavy duty tripods.

Ball head is just as important for steady shots. I just ordered an Acratech Ultimate ballhead for my MF and LF (film) cameras.

[ondebanks]

Is camera shake more of an issue with MF digital sensors than with film, and if so (why?) can it be partly reduced by using a bigger tripod?

I am working with an eMotion75 on a Contax 645. Every time I fire the shutter the mirror goes KABOOM   - not as explosively as a Hassy but more than enough to scare away the crows. So mostly I shoot with a cable release and the camera locked down firmly on a medium-sized Manfrotto tripod. Despite this I come across traces of what I believe to be  camera shake in quite a few images. Sure it does not help that I often use rather slow shutter speeds - but I would have thought that if the camera is securely locked down on the tripod there should be no camera shake whatsoever no matter how slow the shutter speed, right?  

Heck even when the mirror is locked up I still get slightly shaky images sometimes.  

So am starting to suspect the problem may be that my tripod is not heavy enough to hold the camera firmly in place.

Hence my question: what size tripod do you use with your MFDB system?

What if any issues have you encountered with camera shake when shooting MF digital compared with shooting with either a smaller sensor DSLR or (JFK forbid!) film?

(of course I could have asked instead can I just blame the problem on gear and solve it by spending more money (on a bigger tripod) - but in the end opted to phrase the whole thing differently

I currently use a Manfrotto 028 (aka Triman) tripod and a Benro KS2 ball head (Arca-type fitting). No issues with camera shake up to 200mm, with a Mamiya 645AFD and 9-micron pixel back, on a Really Right Stuff plate for Mamiya. I normally use mirror lockup + self timer when taking long exposures.

You don't say exactly what your "medium-sized Manfrotto tripod" is, but the Triman is on the large side of medium while still being eminently portable. It's extremely rigid thanks to the triangular geometry made by each of its twin-shank legs and broad-shouldered top.

I also use a 30 kg Skywatcher equatorial mount, which is rock solid under a 2800mm focal length, but that's a tad niche-y  

[Dick Roadnight]

Is camera shake more of an issue with MF digital sensors than with film, and if so (why?) can it be partly reduced by using a bigger tripod?

I use a 10kg Manfrotto with a 400 geared head for my P3, and a carbon Gitzo...
I also have a 10m Manfrotto Agnoscope, which I intend to use with the Sinar P3 and a Clauss remote pano head.

[vandevanterSH]

Hence my question: what size tripod do you use with your MFDB system?
*********
RRS TVC-33 and RRS BH-55 ballhead;  Gitzo 5541 Monopod with RRS MH-01 monopod head

Steve

[Jack Flesher]

I have a 2 series, 3 series and 5 series Gitzo CF pods.  I use the 2 with a Gitzo 1278 head on it for MF only when traveling, and then try and keep it relatively low (not fully extended).  My main tripod is the 3541 XLS and it has a CUBE on it, and I happily use this pod even fully extended for MF, though rarely do I need all three legs fully extended (and I'm 200CM tall).  I also have the 5560 Giant with a Gitzo 3780 head on it when I need to go really tall and shoot from a ladder.

So bottom line is you can make almost anything of decent rigidity work if you use it intelligently, but the more rigid pods will consistently generate better results regardless of how you use them.  (Note that when we speak of rigidity, we're really speaking to both overall rigidity AND vibration damping characteristics; both are important.)

[tho_mas]

what size tripod do you use with your MFDB system?

I think the size doesn't matter... the rigidity of the entire system is more important.
So...
1. a stable tripod - preferably without center column if you don't need one
2. appropriate camera plate (Kirk, RRS, Novoflex and the like)
3. appropriate tripod head
As to the tripod: less segments/extensions are basically better.

I am a big fan of wood tripods as they absorb even heavy vibration extremely fast (even when they are fully extended).
I have 2 wood tripods (a large one with single extension, i.e. 2 segments, and a medium sized with double extension, i.e. 3 segments).
I also have a large Induro Carbon tripod (new series) which is very good but I definitely prefer my wood tripods.
Wood tripods are far less heavy and large as you might think first... so maybe give it a try. They are also far less expensive.

Tripod head: I use a Gitzo GH3780QR for my Contax (mostly)... I also use leveling bases with a pano base attached on them (occasionally).

[JonathanBenoit]

I use a Gitzo GT3541LS Systematic with Manfrotto 410 geared head. Tripod is rated at 40lbs.

[hubell]

Is camera shake more of an issue with MF digital sensors than with film, and if so (why?) can it be partly reduced by using a bigger tripod?

I am working with an eMotion75 on a Contax 645. Every time I fire the shutter the mirror goes KABOOM   - not as explosively as a Hassy but more than enough to scare away the crows. So mostly I shoot with a cable release and the camera locked down firmly on a medium-sized Manfrotto tripod. Despite this I come across traces of what I believe to be  camera shake in quite a few images. Sure it does not help that I often use rather slow shutter speeds - but I would have thought that if the camera is securely locked down on the tripod there should be no camera shake whatsoever no matter how slow the shutter speed, right?  

Heck even when the mirror is locked up I still get slightly shaky images sometimes.

Not as explosively as the Hassy? Really? If you lock up the mirror first on both the Mamiya with a focal plane shutter and a Hassy with a leaf shutter lens and compare them, I think you will find that the Hassy has virtually no vibration and with the Mamiya the vibration is still quite apparent. In fact, from the images I have seen taken with longer lenses on  the Mamiya/Phase camera using longer lenses and slow shutter speeds, there appears to be significant blurring in files with the higher mp backs like the P65.  However, don't take my word for it, or anyone else's. Run the tests yourself with 150mm, 200 and 300mm lenses on both systems at 1/4 to 1/60 of a second.

[JoeKitchen]

For this problem I drilled a hole in the center column of my tripod, attached a climbing carabiner using a butterfly screw and nut, and then will hang a sand bag (or my camera bag) from it.  Really helps holding the tripod steady.

[Dustbak]

I use a Gitzo 3540XLS with an excellent head without any problems. I am putting together a Sachtler system that should be able to handle even more.


I totally disagree on the Hasselblads 'shutter explosivity'. Introduce a bit of delay between rising the mirror and the shutter actuation and you are good to go. Flip your mirror up and every hint of vibration is gone. Have you actually used a H or are you simply repeating a message that is circulating online for ages?

[Dick Roadnight]

Not as explosively as the Hassy? Really? If you lock up the mirror first on both the Mamiya with a focal plane shutter and a Hassy with a leaf shutter lens and compare them, I think you will find that the Hassy has virtually no vibration and with the Mamiya the vibration is still quite apparent. In fact, from the images I have seen taken with longer lenses on  the Mamiya/Phase camera using longer lenses and slow shutter speeds, there appears to be significant blurring in files with the higher mp backs like the P65.  However, don't take my word for it, or anyone else's. Run the tests yourself with 150mm, 200 and 300mm lenses on both systems at 1/4 to 1/60 of a second.

I checked out a 300mm the other day...

I was too lazy and ill to get out the pro gear, but

Using a
Gitzo 1325 Mk2
MLU
Wire release
1/200 to 1/350
H3D11-50

Brickwork res at 500m was limited by the pixel size ...the mortar was only about 2 pixels wire and there was no sign of camera shake

I did not try slower shutter speeds.

[marcmccalmont]

I did a lot of testing when I first got my Gitzo 2531LVL, RRS B55, Mamiya 645 AFDII/P45+
Hanging your equipment bag from the center hook and mirror lockup both made the biggest difference (both equally significant)
remote shutter release and your other hand on the top of the camera (mirror box) also helped
I was surprised that hanging your equipment bag was such a large improvement
Marc

[ced]

I think slower shutter speeds will aggravate the vibration so MLU is needed and delay if possible with cable or remote release, sometimes it will benefit weighting down the pod with a bag.
Check all the rubber and corking on the gear as I find a lot of pros don't give a damn about these little things and you have metal to metal fittings (horror) to contribute to the problem.
Try to use the thickest legs before going down to the thinner ones for extensions.

[Dick Roadnight]

I've been using the same inexpensive and unsophisticated MK1 Benbo tripod for the last 25+ years. It faithfully follows me everywhere...

Heavy kit that follows me everywhere without me having to carry it really appeals to me... does this work "straight out of the box"... or do you have to train it to walk to heel?

[BernardLanguillier]

Hence my question: what size tripod do you use with your MFDB system?

Not using MF anymore, but the camera I use has the same pixel pitch and similar weight compared to MF.

The 2 tripods I have been using to get optimal sharpness are:

- Gitzo 5531s
- RRS TVC-33

I like the RRS because of its lighter weight, but I believe that I get a bit better sharpness still when using the Gitzo. I have not done any rigorous comparison though. On the other hand it might have to do with the fact that the locking mechanism of the RRS is a bit different. I am still experimenting a bit.

Cheers,
Bernard

[BernardLanguillier]

I was surprised that hanging your equipment bag was such a large improvement

Hi Marc,

Very good point indeed.

Cheers,
Bernard

[lowep]

thanks for pointing out that MANY factors apart from tripod size and weight effect camera shake, and also the good suggestions for various options to investigate including sandbag, gearbag, amount of extension, use of center column etc to explore before investing in a new tripod.

[yaya]

I've been using a basic Manfrotto 055 tripod with a basic 229 head for 7 years...dragging it around in planes, cars etc. mostly with 645 and "compact" view cameras without any major issues.

As ced above has suggested: MLU and self timer if possible, a cable release and carefully mounting and fitting the tripod.

It does help if the bridge you're standing on doesn't wobble:-)

Yair

[lowep]

usually its me wobbling that's the problem