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Author Topic: Your Favorite Color Paper ?  (Read 5992 times)

nilo

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Your Favorite Color Paper ?
« on: August 09, 2010, 08:47:38 am »

What is your favorite paper for Color work? And if possible, I would like to know, why?
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nilo

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Your Favorite Color Paper ?
« Reply #1 on: August 09, 2010, 09:56:33 am »

Quote from: ninoloss
What is your favorite paper for Color work? And if possible, I would like to know, why?

Harman Gloss FB Al Warmetone is what I happily used till now. But now with Harman by Hahnemuhle, I have to redo my profiles. While I'm there, I was thinking of trying some other paper. Please help me choose some good one for COLOR work. Some time ago I used Exhibition Fiber Paper (Traditional) but sharpness and blacks of the Harman made me switch.

I have to say that my clients normally do not touch the print, as I sell them matted or framed. Therefore the "feel" of the paper is not an issue.

I was thinking of trying
    Canson's (no OBAs)
    - Baryta Photographique (I heard it's very sharp, deep blacks  and good curves especially @1440ppi.)
    - Photogloss Premium RC (I read it has an outstanding Dmax)

    Iford's
    - Galerie Smooth Gloss Paper

I am also thinking about Bob Atkins paper,
    Epson's
    - Premium Semi-gloss Photo Paper
    According to WIR, there are no OBAs in
    - Premium Glossy Photo Paper

EDIT: I forgot to mention that my customers like it glossy
« Last Edit: August 09, 2010, 09:58:18 am by ninoloss »
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neile

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Your Favorite Color Paper ?
« Reply #2 on: August 09, 2010, 10:14:33 am »

Quote from: ninoloss
What is your favorite paper for Color work? And if possible, I would like to know, why?

Try taking a look at my Inkjet Paper List (http://www.danecreekfolios.com/inkjet-paper-list). Filter on "Glossy" or "High Gloss" and then "No" on the OBA column and that'll give you a list to experiment with. Most places will happily send you a sample pack to try them out. Shades of Paper does, for example.

Neil
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peninsula

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Your Favorite Color Paper ?
« Reply #3 on: August 09, 2010, 10:28:57 am »

Quote from: ninoloss
What is your favorite paper for Color work? And if possible, I would like to know, why?

After initially reading on the internet, in books, and at workshops, about paper choices by other photographers, I profiled 7 or 8 different glossy papers. I have compared 1860-patch profile targets of these papers to help me narrow down my preference. Among the glossy papers I have profiled, my favorite picks were Ilford Gold Fibre Silk and H Photo Rag Baryta (315). Over time, using these two papers, I began to appreciate the GFS relative to the PRB was too warm for my taste when comparing printed landscapes, although both papers are terrific for contrast and pop.

That said, I know of a few master landscape photographers who prefer matte papers over glossy for their color compositions. Keeping an open mind on the subject of paper choices, and using the same profile targets, my choice is H Photo Rag Ultra Smooth (305) over the other half dozen matte papers I've profiled. Although I have not used it much, I do like what I see with this particular paper and will continue comparing it to the PRB for color landscape prints.
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nilo

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Your Favorite Color Paper ?
« Reply #4 on: August 09, 2010, 10:39:52 am »

Quote from: neile
Try taking a look at my Inkjet Paper List (http://www.danecreekfolios.com/inkjet-paper-list). Filter on "Glossy" or "High Gloss" and then "No" on the OBA column and that'll give you a list to experiment with. Most places will happily send you a sample pack to try them out. Shades of Paper does, for example.

Neil
Thank you Neil for your work! I do actually have and use your list. I updated it a bit and added information, for example, you specify the Canson OBA content as "unknow", but there is data from WIR on this, specifying that they contain no whiteners.

BTW, how do these figures correlate:
Aaron Dygart's paper test chart states for the Canson Baryta Photographique "B-W 2.54" ( http://www.dygartphotography.com/papertest...ographique.html ) and your "dMax 1.79"
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nilo

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Your Favorite Color Paper ?
« Reply #5 on: August 09, 2010, 10:47:39 am »

Quote from: peninsula
After initially reading on the internet, in books, and at workshops, about paper choices by other photographers, I profiled 7 or 8 different glossy papers. I have compared 1860-patch profile targets of these papers to help me narrow down my preference. Among the glossy papers I have profiled, my favorite picks were Ilford Gold Fibre Silk and H Photo Rag Baryta (315). Over time, using these two papers, I began to appreciate the GFS relative to the PRB was too warm for my taste when comparing printed landscapes, although both papers are terrific for contrast and pop.

That said, I know of a few master landscape photographers who prefer matte papers over glossy for their color compositions. Keeping an open mind on the subject of paper choices, and using the same profile targets, my choice is H Photo Rag Ultra Smooth (305) over the other half dozen matte papers I've profiled. Although I have not used it much, I do like what I see with this particular paper and will continue comparing it to the PRB for color landscape prints.

WOW, that's a lot of work, time and money!

Thank you for suggestions and for reminding me that I forgot to specify my main subject: faces and urban-scapes (though some say that landscapes and faces are the same thing).

Would you mind to tell me why your favorite picks were GFS and PRB.
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peninsula

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Your Favorite Color Paper ?
« Reply #6 on: August 09, 2010, 10:55:26 am »

Quote from: ninoloss
WOW, that's a lot of work, time and money!

Thank you for suggestions and for reminding me that I forgot to specify my main subject: faces and urban-scapes (though some say that landscapes and faces are the same thing).

Would you mind to tell me why your favorite picks were GFS and PRB.

GFS and PRB revealed the most "pop", better contrast... hue gradations when doing profile-target comparisons were clearly, better defined.
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natas

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Your Favorite Color Paper ?
« Reply #7 on: August 09, 2010, 11:09:00 am »

Quote from: ninoloss
What is your favorite paper for Color work? And if possible, I would like to know, why?

For me I use multiple papers depending on the type of image. For landscape work I really have enjoyed using Epson Exhibition Fibre and Hot Press Natural. The Fibre paper is just awesome, good deep colors and a wonderful surface. The Hot press Natural is probably the best non RC paper I have ever used.

For my portrait work it is all over the place and really dependant on the client. I find that most clients prefer Epson Luster or Ilford Gold Baryata. I bought a roll of redriver metallic pearl and many people have been choosing this because it makes skin tones pop.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2010, 11:11:10 am by natas »
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nilo

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Your Favorite Color Paper ?
« Reply #8 on: August 09, 2010, 11:16:42 am »

Quote from: peninsula
GFS and PRB revealed the most "pop", better contrast... hue gradations when doing profile-target comparisons were clearly, better defined.

Seams like I have to put them on my list! BTW, what did you think of Harman's Gloss FB AL Warmtone?
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nilo

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Your Favorite Color Paper ?
« Reply #9 on: August 09, 2010, 11:27:33 am »

Quote from: natas
For me I use multiple papers depending on the type of image. For landscape work I really have enjoyed using Epson Exhibition Fibre and Hot Press Natural. The Fibre paper is just awesome, good deep colors and a wonderful surface. The Hot press Natural is probably the best non RC paper I have ever used.

For my portrait work it is all over the place and really dependant on the client. I find that most clients prefer Epson Luster or Ilford Gold Baryata. I bought a roll of redriver metallic pearl and many people have been choosing this because it makes skin tones pop.
Thank you for sharing "natas".

Seams like GFS has a lead if it would be a vote. The Epson Premium Photo Papers are cheaper though. Bob Atkinson prints on Semi-gloss Photo Paper. There is also the above mentioned Glossy version. Did you compare them for your portrait work?
« Last Edit: August 09, 2010, 11:28:10 am by ninoloss »
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neile

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Your Favorite Color Paper ?
« Reply #10 on: August 09, 2010, 10:15:11 pm »

Quote from: ninoloss
Thank you Neil for your work! I do actually have and use your list. I updated it a bit and added information, for example, you specify the Canson OBA content as "unknow", but there is data from WIR on this, specifying that they contain no whiteners.

BTW, how do these figures correlate:
Aaron Dygart's paper test chart states for the Canson Baryta Photographique "B-W 2.54" ( http://www.dygartphotography.com/papertest...ographique.html ) and your "dMax 1.79"

Thanks for the note regarding the Canson OBA content. I've pulled my list from the official manufacturer publications, and sometimes they just don't provide the info. I keep meaning to go through the WIR info to update appropriately (including links to the WIR results).

My dMax number is just a very rough reading by using my spectro on the darkest black patch in my standard test print. It's a good relative comparison between papers in my list, but that's about all. Aaron's are a far more precise reading of the paper's tonality curve (much more like doing zone readings in the good old darkroom days).

Neil
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nilo

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Your Favorite Color Paper ?
« Reply #11 on: August 10, 2010, 02:42:31 am »

Quote from: neile
[...]
My dMax number is just a very rough reading by using my spectro on the darkest black patch in my standard test print. It's a good relative comparison between papers in my list, but that's about all. Aaron's are a far more precise reading of the paper's tonality curve (much more like doing zone readings in the good old darkroom days).
[...]

That gives you very interesting dMax:

Canson Premium RC @ 2.46
Ilford Galerie Smooth Gloss @ 2.43
Harman Gloss Fb AL Warmtone @ 2.33
Hahnemuehle Fine Art Photo Rag Baryta @ 2.3
Ilford Pictorio Pro Hi-Gloss White Film @ 2.21
Ilford Gallerie Gold Fiber Silk @ 2.19
Epson Exhibition Fiber @ 2.15
Canson Infinity Photographique @ 1.79
...

 These results are confusing to me.

Also it it would be nice to find one day somebody doing a comparison in sharpness. My on tests show Harman FB AL Warmtone and Gloss Baryta Warmtone together with Canson's Baryta Photographique way ahead of all other papers.

Again, thank you for your work.
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peninsula

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Your Favorite Color Paper ?
« Reply #12 on: August 10, 2010, 09:07:36 am »

Quote from: ninoloss
That gives you very interesting dMax:

Canson Premium RC @ 2.46
Ilford Galerie Smooth Gloss @ 2.43
Harman Gloss Fb AL Warmtone @ 2.33
Hahnemuehle Fine Art Photo Rag Baryta @ 2.3
Ilford Pictorio Pro Hi-Gloss White Film @ 2.21
Ilford Gallerie Gold Fiber Silk @ 2.19
Epson Exhibition Fiber @ 2.15
Canson Infinity Photographique @ 1.79
...

Again, thank you for your work.

Hey ninoloss,

Looks like you've had your hands on plenty of these papers, what is your favorite for color prints and why?

Thanks for starting this post, it is always fun to get opinions on paper choices.

Greg
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neile

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Your Favorite Color Paper ?
« Reply #13 on: August 10, 2010, 10:16:13 am »

Quote from: ninoloss
That gives you very interesting dMax:

...

These results are confusing to me.

How come? In reality those are all likely indistinguishable to the naked eye. If you put them side-by-side with images printed using correct profiles I doubt you'd be able to tell a difference in how dark the darkest blacks are.

Neil
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neile

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Your Favorite Color Paper ?
« Reply #14 on: August 10, 2010, 10:19:37 am »

Quote from: peninsula
Looks like you've had your hands on plenty of these papers, what is your favorite for color prints and why?

Greg,

I've printed samples on over 100 sheets of paper. My favourites are:

Ilford Galerie Gold Fibre Silk (glossy)
Hahnemuhle FineArt Baryta (glossy)
Epson Exhibition Fiber (glossy)
Moab Somerset Musem Rag (matte)

Between the glossy papers I print on Ilford GFS 99% of the time. The decision between them comes down to the colour of the paper base. Is it a warm tone or cool tone paper? GFS is warm, HFA is cool, and EEF is somewhere in the middle.

The Musem Rag paper is my choice for matte paper. I wrote a review of it at http://www.danecreekfolios.com/blog/2010/7...per-review.html.

You can also search this forum for thoughts on the various papers. The question of "which paper should I use" comes up about once a week

Neil
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peninsula

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Your Favorite Color Paper ?
« Reply #15 on: August 10, 2010, 10:34:40 am »

Quote from: neile
Greg,

I've printed samples on over 100 sheets of paper. My favourites are:

Ilford Galerie Gold Fibre Silk (glossy)
Hahnemuhle FineArt Baryta (glossy)
Epson Exhibition Fiber (glossy)
Moab Somerset Musem Rag (matte)

Between the glossy papers I print on Ilford GFS 99% of the time. The decision between them comes down to the colour of the paper base. Is it a warm tone or cool tone paper? GFS is warm, HFA is cool, and EEF is somewhere in the middle.

The Musem Rag paper is my choice for matte paper. I wrote a review of it at http://www.danecreekfolios.com/blog/2010/7...per-review.html.

You can also search this forum for thoughts on the various papers. The question of "which paper should I use" comes up about once a week

Neil

Thanks, Neil!

Between the GFS and the HFA, I concur 100% on your take with the exception that I tend to favor the cooler paper base of HFA. Many of my landscapes are so warm already, the GFS "over cooks" the warmness to my eye. I don't do people/portraits, but my understanding is most  of those who do prefer the GFS over the HFA as well. With you preference for a warmer base the majority of the time, I'm curious about whether or not you have people in most of your compositions? I'll check out the Museum Rag, never have looked at it. Have you tried H. Photo Rag Ultra Smooth? Of the H. matte papers I've sampled, it is my favorite.

Cheers,

Greg
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neile

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Your Favorite Color Paper ?
« Reply #16 on: August 10, 2010, 10:51:02 am »

I shoot landscapes almost exclusively (you can see at http://www.danecreekphotography.com/). HFA and people don't get along. It makes white skin look oddly blue or purple. When I do custom print jobs that have people in them I always use Ilford GFS (although now that EEF is in rolls that will be an option too).

Haven't used that smooth paper you mention although I'm sure I have a print sample of it kicking around in my pile at home.

Neil

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JeffKohn

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Re: Your Favorite Color Paper ?
« Reply #17 on: August 10, 2010, 08:07:49 pm »

My favorite gloss/semi-gloss paper is Hahnemuhle Photo Rag Baryta. It has a nice surface, excellent gamut and DMax, no OBA's, and the paper white is just slightly warm (but not yellow). It also has the feel of a thicker, fine-art rag paper, as opposed to some of the fiber-gloss papers that are more like thin, stiff cardboard.
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nilo

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Re: Your Favorite Color Paper ?
« Reply #18 on: August 12, 2010, 07:19:32 am »

My favorite gloss/semi-gloss paper is Hahnemuhle Photo Rag Baryta. It has a nice surface, excellent gamut and DMax, no OBA's, and the paper white is just slightly warm (but not yellow). It also has the feel of a thicker, fine-art rag paper, as opposed to some of the fiber-gloss papers that are more like thin, stiff cardboard.

Thank you Jeff for sharing!

I also printed on the Photo Rag Baryta, which is one of the most expensive papers here, and I did not see any noticeable difference in gamut to the Harman Gloss FB AL Warmtone, when printed on a 3880 with K3 + vivid magenta inks. If the difference would be meaningful outside of profiling, Neil's figures would speak for the Harman. To me Photo Rag Baryta looks more like a semi-matte paper with a semi-gloss surface.

The thing I dislike about all matt, semi-matte and some Barytas like the Photo Rag, is that the picture seams to be painted on top of the paper. I like very much when the picture seams to float beneath the surface of the paper, like this is the case with Gloss (semi and high included). Its maybe a matter of taste, but also its a decision wheather or not and how to insist on the artifact ...

Now, a few days later in the testings for my new paper line-up, and I am still want to keep the Harman Gloss Fb AL Warmtone. The new "cool" addition might be the a lot cheaper and quite more archival Epson Semi-Gloss. BTW I consider changing to Inova's Ultra Gloss for the canvas.

I would greatly appreciate this forums reactions, suggestions, comments and personal accounts!

cheers
nino
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