Mamiya 500mm f/4.5 APO

[Pesto]

Has anyone here had any direct experience with this lens on a digital camera? I had one several years ago and it was absolutely superb on a film camera but wonder about using it with a digital back; sometimes film seemed more "forgiving"than digital. I thought it wise to inquire before I pull the trigger.
Thank you for your thoughts.

[J-KNIGHT]

Has anyone here had any direct experience with this lens on a digital camera? I had one several years ago and it was absolutely superb on a film camera but wonder about using it with a digital back; sometimes film seemed more "forgiving"than digital. I thought it wise to inquire before I pull the trigger.
Thank you for your thoughts.

Absolutely fabulous.

[Pesto]

Absolutely fabulous.

Thank you. That was my experience using film but given that I shoot critters who rarely stand still long enough to use the mirror up function, I worry that the more "discriminating" nature of a 40 MP sensor might be more revealing of vibration problems.

[Doug Peterson]

Thank you. That was my experience using film but given that I shoot critters who rarely stand still long enough to use the mirror up function, I worry that the more "discriminating" nature of a 40 MP sensor might be more revealing of vibration problems.

I disagree with "absolutely fabulous" - I would say instead "quite good", but this could easily represent copy variation or differences in expectations.

40mp will be more discriminating than film, but not insurmountable. You'll need another 1.5-2 stops of shutter speed.

If you're using a P40+ digital back then you can use the Sensor+ mode (10mp starting at ISO200 going up to ISO3200) in more challenging situations. You'll gain two stops in ISO and gain 1.5 stops or so worth of inherent vibration-forgiveness for a net gain of around 3.5 stops making the system MUCH more usable. When you have the time/equipment/patience to slow down and shoot with ideal technique you'll be able to use the 40mp full-resolution mode.

You'll want to stop down to f/8 for sharpness (in my experience) and you'll want to familiarize yourself with the chromatic aberration tool in Capture One 5 under the lens panel.

Also make sure to keep the front and rear elements of the lens very clean!

Doug Peterson
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[Pesto]

Doug,
Thank you for your thoughts. I must say that within the constraints of film media, my 500 APO was indeed extraordinary, clearly superior to my former Canon 500 f/4.0. Given that I do have a 300f/2.8 and 2x, I wondered if the 500 might not be redundant... I must truly be getting old, these thoughts never deterred me before!!! The images that I have produced with the 300/ 2X combination have consistently been disappointing. The question of image degradation from the 2X vs. vibration is remains to be resolved but my testing ( mirror up, cable release, and a stationary target) suggests that the problem is largely related to the 2X converter. It would be interesting to test the lenses side by side.
Thanks again,

DAB.

[ondebanks]

You'll want to stop down to f/8 for sharpness (in my experience) and you'll want to familiarize yourself with the chromatic aberration tool in Capture One 5 under the lens panel.

Doug, are you really talking about the right lens here - the 500/4.5 APO, not the old 500/5.6?

I ask because I am really surprised by your remarks. I have the 200/2.8 APO and it's truly sharp wide open, and diffraction limited after f4. I call it my Charlton Heston lens because "you'll have to pry it from my cold, dead hands"  [Yes, that wacky NRA footage even made the news over here in Ireland]

I know people with the 300/2.8 APO who say similar things to me, and I have seen one rating it above the Canon 300/2.8 - both mounted on the same Canon body.

So your experience with the 500/4.5 APO is what you might call a ten-sigma outlier. Could the 3rd member of the manual focus APO triumvirate be that different to the others? Must have been a bloody awful sample.  

[digitalcameraman]

Douglas:

Have you tried a newspaper test where you focus on the small type and take each exposure with and without the 2x. If the camera is causing vibration, should see some double edged type and you should also be able to determine of the 2x is introducing the softer image. But the question would be does the 500mm lens allow you to get sharper images than the combination of the 2x and the 300mm. I have seen some stellar images shot with that exact 300 2.8 you have in your hands on DB.

I got one other guy I am going to contact for you to see if he has any experience with that particular 500 mm you are looking for.



Sincerely,

Chris Snipes
Sales Manager, Florida
Capture Integration
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Doug,
Thank you for your thoughts. I must say that within the constraints of film media, my 500 APO was indeed extraordinary, clearly superior to my former Canon 500 f/4.0. Given that I do have a 300f/2.8 and 2x, I wondered if the 500 might not be redundant... I must truly be getting old, these thoughts never deterred me before!!! The images that I have produced with the 300/ 2X combination have consistently been disappointing. The question of image degradation from the 2X vs. vibration is remains to be resolved but my testing ( mirror up, cable release, and a stationary target) suggests that the problem is largely related to the 2X converter. It would be interesting to test the lenses side by side.
Thanks again,

DAB.

[Pesto]

Chris,
Yes, this is exactly the testing that I have done and found the images shot with the 300 plus the 2X disappointing, and yes you have correctly identified the question that has led me here in to begin with:

"question would be does the 500mm lens allow you to get sharper images than the combination of the 2x and the 300mm"

 The 300 APO is indeed an excellent lens and I am quite pleased with it. I was merely hoping to hear from those who have had experience with the 500 with a digital back. Perhaps the more forgiving quality of film vs. digital might become more apparent with longer lenses and the excellence that I saw with the 500 might fade away in this medium.

I have taken the mirror out of the equation given that when I previously shot with the 500, I never used mirror pre release; this technique simply is not compatible with my shooting style. Given that I was able to produce a satisfactory proportion of "keepers" with the old M645 body, mirror not withstanding, and that I can not imagine that they have gone backward with mirror dampening I thought that I should consider other factors; ie, film vs. digital and image degradation caused by the 2X converter.

Upon further thought however, the the mirror may indeed be the culprit and it simply escaped my recognition given the resolution of 4X loupe and a light table vs 100% view on my desktop.

DAB.