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Author Topic: iPad  (Read 4258 times)

wolfnowl

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iPad
« on: August 05, 2010, 10:55:13 PM »

Hi Folks:  This is from Ctein over at TOP:

"A Fly in the iPad Ointment: About 10 days ago, Apple released an update for the OS that crashed my iPad, forcing a "reset and restore." Imagine my not-at-at-all-delighted surprise at discovering that the restore did not  restore all the content I had on the iPad. Most of the music and documents that I had laboriously transferred from multiple data sources around my house were wiped. iTunes on the Mac, which handles "backup" for the iPad basically only backs up files and content you sync via iTunes or purchase from an Apple online store.

If you're treating your iPad as nothing more than an overfed iPod, no problem. If you're using it as a more general-purpose computer, big problem.

I couldn't seem to find a backup program in the App Store, so I posted an innocent query asking if anyone knew of a real backup program for the iPad to the Apple Discussions group. Two surprises. First, there is no backup program for the iPad. Oh, my..."

More here: http://theonlinephotographer.typepad.com/t...ostscripts.html

Mike.
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francois

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« Reply #1 on: August 06, 2010, 01:55:55 AM »

Quote from: wolfnowl
Hi Folks:  This is from Ctein over at TOP:

"A Fly in the iPad Ointment: About 10 days ago, Apple released an update for the OS that crashed my iPad, forcing a "reset and restore." Imagine my not-at-at-all-delighted surprise at discovering that the restore did not  restore all the content I had on the iPad. Most of the music and documents that I had laboriously transferred from multiple data sources around my house were wiped. iTunes on the Mac, which handles "backup" for the iPad basically only backs up files and content you sync via iTunes or purchase from an Apple online store.

If you're treating your iPad as nothing more than an overfed iPod, no problem. If you're using it as a more general-purpose computer, big problem.

I couldn't seem to find a backup program in the App Store, so I posted an innocent query asking if anyone knew of a real backup program for the iPad to the Apple Discussions group. Two surprises. First, there is no backup program for the iPad. Oh, my..."

More here: http://theonlinephotographer.typepad.com/t...ostscripts.html

Mike.
Mike,
The iPad and iPhone/iPod Touch OS (aka iOS) doesn't lend itself to traditional backup. One can backup the entire device with iTunes.
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Francois

BobFisher

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iPad
« Reply #2 on: August 06, 2010, 10:14:56 AM »

Quote from: francois
Mike,
The iPad and iPhone/iPod Touch OS (aka iOS) doesn't lend itself to traditional backup. One can backup the entire device with iTunes.

Francois, your comments seem to be counter to what Ctein is saying.  If you know something he doesn't, I'm sure he'd be happy to hear about it.
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francois

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iPad
« Reply #3 on: August 06, 2010, 10:31:16 AM »

Quote from: BobFisher
Francois, your comments seem to be counter to what Ctein is saying.  If you know something he doesn't, I'm sure he'd be happy to hear about it.
Apple has a tech note about it: http://support.apple.com/kb/ht1414

I've used this method quite a few times without any problems. But... the content of iTunes is not backed up (since it's supposed to be in your iTunes Library). I've also read that photos are not backed but I have yet to try.

Edit: I'd add that backups are not stored in an easily readable format.

On a Mac they are stored here: ~/Library/Application Support/mobilesync
On a XP PC they are here: C:\Documents and Settings\USERNAME\Application Data\Apple Computer\MobileSync\Backup
« Last Edit: August 06, 2010, 10:42:36 AM by francois »
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Francois

BradSmith

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iPad
« Reply #4 on: August 06, 2010, 12:07:51 PM »

I went to the apple support link.   Here is what it says regarding this issue:

Backing up your iPhone, iPad, or iPod touch
Your device is backed up by iTunes each time you:

Sync with iTunes (automatically on the first sync, every time you connect it to the computer)
Update in iTunes (occurs automatically without prompting)
Restore in iTunes (prompts you to create a backup before the restore process begins)

Although iTunes backs up most of your device's settings, downloaded applications, your audio, video, and photo content are not included in the backup.

If restoring from an iTunes backup, your device settings, downloaded applications, audio, video, and photo contents will re-sync to the device because the "Sync" option under the respective tabs will be checked in iTunes when restoring from a backup. If you choose to restore your device as a new user, downloaded applications, audio, video, and photo content will not be synced until you select the "Sync" option in iTunes under each tab.


I don't understand what it is saying.  Don't the two highlighted statements contradict each other?

Brad



Quote from: francois
Apple has a tech note about it: http://support.apple.com/kb/ht1414

I've used this method quite a few times without any problems. But... the content of iTunes is not backed up (since it's supposed to be in your iTunes Library). I've also read that photos are not backed but I have yet to try.

Edit: I'd add that backups are not stored in an easily readable format.

On a Mac they are stored here: ~/Library/Application Support/mobilesync
On a XP PC they are here: C:\Documents and Settings\USERNAME\Application Data\Apple Computer\MobileSync\Backup
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Roy

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iPad
« Reply #5 on: August 06, 2010, 06:43:40 PM »

Quote from: skeedracer
I don't understand what it is saying.  Don't the two highlighted statements contradict each other?

Brad

They do not.

Backup does not backup the data from the device, just settings and apps.

Restore reloads the settings and apps that were saved by backup, and synchronizes the data in the iTunes library that you told it in your settings to sync with the device (for example, music, photos, contacts, calendar, movies). If data in the iTunes library has been deleted, iTunes deletes the corresponding data off the device. The library and the device are then in sync, but that may not be what you wish. If iTunes for some reason loses all of your music library, doing a sync will erase all the music on the device. Now you have no music in iTunes or on your device.

Of course, you still have the backup of your hard drive you made the previous evening ;-) ...
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Roy

BobFisher

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iPad
« Reply #6 on: August 06, 2010, 06:56:34 PM »

And it will only resync data (songs, photos, etc.) that was originally loaded via your iTunes library.  If you load data via other methods (as Ctein appears to have done), you're buggered.  

Just another in a growing list of ways that Steve Jobs screws his customers.  There's a reason i-device users refer to opening the device as a 'jailbreak'.  I continue to wonder why anyone is foolish enough to plunk down good money for that kind of crap.  Editorial comment concluded.  Thank you.        
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Roy

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« Reply #7 on: August 06, 2010, 09:05:09 PM »

It is useful to keep in mind that an ipod, an iphone or an ipad is not a general-purpose computing platform. People plunk down money for them because they do the intended job simply and elegantly. For the vast majority of users that is all they ask and they are happy. The sales figures attest to that.

Yes, Jobs is incredibly arrogant and if he would lighten up, Apple would be a better company and Apple's products would be better. But he doesn't "screw" his customers - he sells, they buy, and in spite of the limitations, the products are usually unique and clever.

Let's go shoot some photos.
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Roy

mdijb

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iPad
« Reply #8 on: August 06, 2010, 11:48:04 PM »

The Ipad seems to have a lot of potential as a device  I would use to download and store photos, on  trip for example, but until there is software that helps me do so, I will keep taking my laptop with me.

I suspect and hope that Adobe  will provide a scaled down version of CS5 or LR for use on this device that would make it more useful to a working photographer.

MDIJB
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francois

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iPad
« Reply #9 on: August 07, 2010, 04:49:09 AM »

Quote from: BobFisher
And it will only resync data (songs, photos, etc.) that was originally loaded via your iTunes library.  If you load data via other methods (as Ctein appears to have done), you're buggered.  
Bob,
FWIW, I just tried to backup my iPad, then erase it, then restore it from the backup and everything is there even data loaded into applications like GoodReader, Pages, Air Sharing HD, SketchPad and other apps.

So, for me, backup via iTunes just works as I expect. It's not flexible, it's not configurable but it does the basics. I admit that some users want or need more options and for them jailbreaking is the only way to achieve that.

One thing I haven't tested is photos imported via the camera kit but screenshots are backed up up.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2010, 04:52:44 AM by francois »
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Francois

BobFisher

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iPad
« Reply #10 on: August 07, 2010, 08:39:21 AM »

Quote from: francois
Bob,
FWIW, I just tried to backup my iPad, then erase it, then restore it from the backup and everything is there even data loaded into applications like GoodReader, Pages, Air Sharing HD, SketchPad and other apps.

So, for me, backup via iTunes just works as I expect. It's not flexible, it's not configurable but it does the basics. I admit that some users want or need more options and for them jailbreaking is the only way to achieve that.

One thing I haven't tested is photos imported via the camera kit but screenshots are backed up up.

Right, but you backed everything up via iTunes, didn't you?  If iTunes will let you back up data that was originally loaded from elsehwere, that's cool.
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francois

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iPad
« Reply #11 on: August 07, 2010, 11:50:36 AM »

Quote from: BobFisher
Right, but you backed everything up via iTunes, didn't you?  If iTunes will let you back up data that was originally loaded from elsehwere, that's cool.
Bob,
I did it via iTunes. And yes, iTunes backs up data that was entered from other sources. Actually, on iOS devices, applications are sandboxed. Prefrerences, data files, temporary files, etc live in that sandbox and when iTunes backs up the device it backs up everything. That's how I read the iOS developer documentation. Without jailbreaking, applications do not have a way to reach other applications files/data. That's why a backup application, in the current state of the iOS and without jailbreaking, is probably impossible.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2010, 11:53:54 AM by francois »
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Francois

BradSmith

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iPad
« Reply #12 on: August 07, 2010, 01:53:04 PM »

Bob, Roy:
Thanks for the clarification regarding the Apple Tech Note.  So it appears from these various posts that Ctein's original point, that you CAN'T take photo files that were brought into the iPad through the Apple Camera Kit for review and/or "backup" of the memory cards, and subsequently transfer them to some other storage device (computer hard drive) is correct.

That's a shame, because I had been planning on getting an iPad just for this purpose.
Brad




Quote from: BobFisher
And it will only resync data (songs, photos, etc.) that was originally loaded via your iTunes library.  If you load data via other methods (as Ctein appears to have done), you're buggered.  

Just another in a growing list of ways that Steve Jobs screws his customers.  There's a reason i-device users refer to opening the device as a 'jailbreak'.  I continue to wonder why anyone is foolish enough to plunk down good money for that kind of crap.  Editorial comment concluded.  Thank you.        
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francois

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« Reply #13 on: August 07, 2010, 03:06:53 PM »

Quote from: skeedracer
…So it appears from these various posts that Ctein's original point, that you CAN'T take photo files that were brought into the iPad through the Apple Camera Kit for review and/or "backup" of the memory cards, and subsequently transfer them to some other storage device (computer hard drive) is correct. …
Brad,
I don't have the camera kit but Wayne Fox wrote in another discussion thread that it's possible via Lightroom or iPhoto.

Here's the link: http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index....st&p=362996

<<Perhaps some additional feedback on this topic. I've been playing with the camera connection kit, and have found it is pretty easy to import files onto the iPad including most raw files. To get them off the iPad, Lightroom 3 beta 2 sees the iPad as an external device much like a card and you can copy the files onto a location of your choice on your hard drive when you import them.>>
« Last Edit: August 07, 2010, 03:07:09 PM by francois »
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Francois

free1000

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Re: iPad
« Reply #14 on: August 12, 2010, 05:39:07 PM »

App developers can integrate with eg: the Dropbox API to allow web based backup from an app. There are other ways too, for example an App can expose its documents directory in iTunes to allow files to be copied in and out of the app.  So its an idea to check that an app supports some method of document access other than the more hidden version that iTunes does which is really meant for general 'non-expert' use. So ask your developer to provide a suitable backup method for your favorite app.

Keep in mind that apart from one or two exceptions (eg: Rupert Murdoch who had pre-release iPads), the iPad software development kit has only been available to developers for a few months. Its very early days for the iPad. As time goes by, I think you will find that professional apps for media creation and management will offer more options like these. I'm certainly looking at both of these for the future of my own iPad portfolio app but I'll probably offer the iTunes document access initially as everyone has iTunes.


By the way, the reason apps documents are 'sandboxed' is for security, not for any evil desire by apple to 'lock your data up'. Steve just wants to make the world a cooler place to live in, he has all the money he needs already. :-)
 


« Last Edit: August 12, 2010, 05:43:13 PM by free1000 »
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