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Steve Weldon

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Motivation
« Reply #40 on: August 05, 2010, 05:15:14 AM »

Quote from: feppe
I believe I qualified my "vital" assessment with YMMV. If Thailand's economy is in such a great state that they can withstand a 5% hit on their GDP, great for them. In current economy a 5% hit on GDP would be devastating to many countries.

I don't understand how you can call the auto industry a straw man argument, as I was merely using it to illustrate how significant the tourism industry is to an economy. To clarify: the US economy is hurting in large part due to Detroit hurting.

I have no idea where your tirade about colonialism or comparing EU came from. I'm talking about the GDP of a country, not dissing your mother...

I'm done with this.
A YMMV statement doesn't change the definition of a word.. 5% is 5% is 5% to any country.. and many countries have taken much larger hits and not been "devastated."  You're dramatizing for effect and it's not working here.

A manufacturing sector comparation to a tourism sector is very different, straw man at best.. especially when both subjects being compared have the exact same sectors to compare and one is choosing not to use them.  And no.. I don't think the US is "hurting to a large part" due to the auto industry.. the current economic issues of the US and globally in fact.. are far more complex.   To be more precise, the auto industry is 'down' because of the economy.. the economy goes down, people buy less 'things'.  Things like automobiles.   One is a cause, the other an effect.  The auto industry didn't "cause" anything.  (at least not this time)

The bottom line is I don't think 5% of any countries economy is 'vital' for anyone but those involved in that 5%.. the country will survive and depending on the country, it's economic policies, and its resources.. recover faster or slower.
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stamper

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« Reply #41 on: August 05, 2010, 11:25:50 AM »



A manufacturing sector comparation to a tourism sector is very different, straw man at best.. especially when both subjects being compared have the exact same sectors to compare and one is choosing not to use them.  And no.. I don't think the US is "hurting to a large part" due to the auto industry.. the current economic issues of the US and globally in fact.. are far more complex.   To be more precise, the auto industry is 'down' because of the economy.. the economy goes down, people buy less 'things'.  Things like automobiles.   One is a cause, the other an effect.  The auto industry didn't "cause" anything.  (at least not this time)

The bottom line is I don't think 5% of any countries economy is 'vital' for anyone but those involved in that 5%.. the country will survive and depending on the country, it's economic policies, and its resources.. recover faster or slower.
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ZZZZZZZZZZ

blansky

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Motivation
« Reply #42 on: August 05, 2010, 03:02:59 PM »

Who can say why most people do anything. The snappers that take "holiday pictures" do so for a variety of reasons. Ego--- I was there an you weren't, while showing them to friends. Sheep--- because everyone else is doing it so I'd better. etc

But in my opinion the reason a lot of people take photographs is for the emotional hit they get when they are able to relive them back home, months and years later. Maybe it's sort of primal, to prove to themselves that they exist and were there and did something. Maybe it's to record a once in a lifetime experience that they know deep down they will never repeat. Maybe for them and a lot of us it's the reason that attracted them to photography in the first place. The ability to stop time.

Nothing else can really do that. With these magic little boxes we have the ability to stop time, as it is whirling towards an unknown future. We can stop the age of our ever changing children, stop their smiles and glee in mid stream, we can capture the love we feel and maybe once felt for a loved one who may or may not be here any more.

That to me is the essence of photography as I practice it. Not provocative throwaway advertising pieces, not sterile scenics, not masterfully executed technical masterpieces, but instead recordings of human beings caught in a split second in time that provide an emotional twinge to the person that looks at it.  And it may even be a poorly exposed, poorly composed snapshot of someone standing grinning in front of some landmark in a far away place.

As a portrait photographer that's what photography is all about. The quality of what various people produce will vary but the emotions are still there. It is much like in the evening when all the noise of the day is gone and you are sitting with your loved ones, it's the feeling of completeness that you have as you look and hold them. When you are old and alone those are the moments you will long for and on your death bed that is what you will remember.

So in my opinion, let them snap away. And I ALWAYS ask anyone with a camera that is obviously a tourist if they would like me to photograph them in front of something. Especially the couples. They need to be together in the photograph.


Michael
« Last Edit: August 05, 2010, 03:08:02 PM by blansky »
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Ray

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« Reply #43 on: August 06, 2010, 06:58:37 AM »

Quote from: Rob C
My thought/question, basically, boils down to this: why do people take cameras with them on holidays and shoot local buildings, museums, town halls, lakes, tourist 'attractions' or, even that LuLa favourite, icebergs? I can understand the professional travel photographer having to do this - well, there used to be a branch as such in the profession - where some commercial gain might be had, but for the amateur, however good, where lies the motivation?

Rob C

Rob,
Having had a look at your website, I think I'm getting an insight into why you are not motivated to take photos when on holiday, or when travelling to a new, exotic or just different location.

Having (apparently) spent half your life as a photographer shooting the female breast, most other subjects must now seem rather flat and uninteresting.

Perhaps you should ask yourself, why would anyone pay significant sums of money to go on holiday or take excursions to see sights that are not worth photographing?

I can understand someone who suffers from technophobia, who has an aversion towards digital products, not wanting to even own a camera. I can understand someone who just wants to relax by the hotel swimming pool and read a few novels, not being interested in taking photos. I can understand someone who is busy and pressed for time, who doesn't want to bother taking photos, and I guess I can understand why someone who lives in an over-familiar, mundane environment, has no motivation to take photos of subjects that cannot compare with the beauty of the female breast, or the allure of a Pirelli Calender model.

Is that last example you?

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Rob C

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« Reply #44 on: August 06, 2010, 03:32:28 PM »

Quote from: Ray
Rob,
Having had a look at your website, I think I'm getting an insight into why you are not motivated to take photos when on holiday, or when travelling to a new, exotic or just different location.

Having (apparently) spent half your life as a photographer shooting the female breast, most other subjects must now seem rather flat and uninteresting.

Perhaps you should ask yourself, why would anyone pay significant sums of money to go on holiday or take excursions to see sights that are not worth photographing?

I can understand someone who suffers from technophobia, who has an aversion towards digital products, not wanting to even own a camera. I can understand someone who just wants to relax by the hotel swimming pool and read a few novels, not being interested in taking photos. I can understand someone who is busy and pressed for time, who doesn't want to bother taking photos, and I guess I can understand why someone who lives in an over-familiar, mundane environment, has no motivation to take photos of subjects that cannot compare with the beauty of the female breast, or the allure of a Pirelli Calender model.

Is that last example you?


Absolutely.

And therein the problem: what do you do about it when the client factor disappears?

I see lots and lots of shots around the place of lesser models and it makes me wonder about the motivation/eye of the snapper. I can't remember in which thread this came up recently, but the model is as important in a creative sense - if not more so - than the photographer; you don't see the snapper, but you do see the girl. The problem is, if the girl looks like the 'girl next door' (a lie if ever the magazines promoted one - it's the last thing they or guys seek) then you have pretty well wasted your time. You can stick a zillion lights on her, be as clever as you want, but a pig is still a pig, even with lip gloss. Not everybody, some pros included, seem aware of this. Damn, there's a trail of refining, more refining and many more tears from rejection before the top of the heap even gets to the right castings! Nobody just walks right in and scoops the cream. Yep, famous overnight, after several years of nothing much. Please, nobody say Kate Moss and airport in the same breath.

Still in the personal mode, I've looked at as many different genres as I can think of as being remotely interesting or practical for me to consider, and after a couple of shoots, they simply bore me silly.

Perhaps as Klaban indicated, one might be destined to ruminate forever - a sort of photographic Flying Dutchman. Wish I'd realised that before buying more and more tin, plastic and glass. (I'm thinking cameras, but might just as well be dreaming cars.)

I think I should save your quotation above for posterity and post a copy in front of the monitor. By the way, glad you had a look at the site - thanks for that.

Ciao

Rob C
« Last Edit: August 06, 2010, 03:35:34 PM by Rob C »
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Rob C

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Motivation
« Reply #45 on: August 07, 2010, 04:58:04 AM »

Quote from: KLaban
Rob

I must have written a dozen or more posts to this Motivation thread and ended up trashing the lot. Itís a difficult situation.

I understand the passion you had for your work and for the life that went with it. I understand the dilemma you face now that this life and work is no more. What I find difficult to understand is the enthusiasm you show here for photography and yet your lack of enthusiasm for making images.

OK, tough ain't going to work, but hell, I'd tried everything else. What saddens me is the waste of talent.

Best

Keith



Keith

Coming from you, the very last sentence cheers me up no end. Thanks for that.

However, there isn't a lack of enthusiasm for making images - there is a lack of opportunity for making the ones that appeal to me. As the Meerkat hints, those are two different things; tweetch! All genres are not the same, as you well know, and the act of pointing a camera at something you have little interest in is worse than not pointing at all. On the other hand, were I talking photographic business right now, you would be right; I have had to kick my own ankles at times to prevent myself picking up the 'phone and ordering a Nikkor 24mm Tilt/Shifter in pursuit of yet another blind alley. Damn it, my wallet is shrinking fast from such misadventures!

It isn't hardware, software or underwear (well, maybe the latter) that causes the angst that cripples the mind - it's the vicious circle. I would be only too happy were I to wake up with a new enthusiasm for shooting Mediterranean atmospherics, for example, but I don't any more, not since Tony Stone asked me not too because all the agencies were groaning under the weight of such stuff!

Maybe it's akin to finding one's self in a harem but deeply in love with someone else. How would you resolve that? Eff them all whilst saying a mental sorry all the while...? I have a suspžcion I'm not doing that either, just saying the mental sorry, over and over again like a friggin' mantra! I'm gonna buy one of those self-help manuals; might even become a great mechanic! Could do worse: the last oil change the Ford had (last week) cost me Ä110 and would have been much higher had I not warned the garage that I didn't want plugs or anything else as Rusty's life hangs on a thread that I might cut at any moment.

My youngest granddaughter got home to find that the postman had called: she got all her five As! One more year doing more and then, with luck, joins her sis at uni. Some things are really good. Eff that manual!

;-)

Rob C

Rob C

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Motivation
« Reply #47 on: August 07, 2010, 12:12:14 PM »

Quote from: stamper
Have you been on the Sangria Rob? Some very good insights there which must strike a cord with many posters.



I wish! Just coldish coffee...

Rob C

Ray

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« Reply #48 on: August 08, 2010, 11:27:23 AM »

Rob,
The following shot which I took in the  Russian Museum in St Petersburg might be just up your alley. I was surprised I was allowed to take photos (albeit without flash or tripod). However, for such occasions I wish I was carrying a D3s.

The nature of the subject matter caught my eye, obviously because I have an artistic temperament.

But I was not familiar with the painter, Henryk Siemiradzki, and my ancient Greek history was not up to scratch. But the internet has revealed all.

The main subject is a high class err!.. escort. It seems that in ancient Greek society, wives had a very 'background' role of chores and raising children. However, the Greeks did have a goddess of love ,beauty and sexuality, called Aphrodite, and certain Greek women, possessed of natural beauty, tried to emulate the characteristics of Aphrodite.

One such woman was Phryne, depicted in the painting. The most famous statue ever sculpted of the Goddess Aphrodite, totally lurid and scandalous, was based on Phryne, sculpted by her then current lover, Praxiteles.

To cut a long story short, Phryne became very wealthy as a result of her natural attractions; ruffled a few feathers because of her numerous love affairs, and ended up in court, charged with the very serious offense of profaning religious occasions. (We all know what happened to Socrates).

Her defending lawyer was an ex-lover, Hyperides. Unfortunately, the case against Phryne was so strong, it seemed a forgone conclusion that she would be found guilty.

In a last-ditch attempt to save the day, Hyperides ripped off Phryne's clothing to reveal her breasts in their full glory. He argued, 'How could such God-given attributes possibly profane any religious festival?'

This was a knock-out blow. The case was dismissed.

[attachment=23574:033_Phry...miradzki.jpg]

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Eric Myrvaagnes

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« Reply #49 on: August 08, 2010, 10:10:52 PM »

Quote from: Ray
Rob,
The following shot which I took in the  Russian Museum in St Petersburg might be just up your alley. I was surprised I was allowed to take photos (albeit without flash or tripod). However, for such occasions I wish I In a last-ditch attempt to save the day, Hyperides ripped off Phryne's clothing to reveal her breasts in their full glory. He argued, 'How could such God-given attributes possibly profane any religious festival?'

This was a knock-out blow. The case was dismissed.

[attachment=23574:033_Phry...miradzki.jpg]

And all along I assumed that it was Rob who ripped off her clothing!


Eric

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Rob C

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« Reply #50 on: August 09, 2010, 05:16:58 AM »

Me? Bodice ripper? I am the genuine mild-mannered Clark Kent with unexpectedly tonsured hair and no telephone booth.

And there you see my problem with landscape. Like for the painter in question, the prettiest scenery in the world but serves as backdrop to a yet finer figure. And I just can't get over that basic problem of perception. I sometimed think of Keith's Greek pics and how much more they would mean to me were they but gracing another, contemporary Greek goddess... One day, one day he'll surprise me with such a thing.

But seriously, the location in that painting is superb, but it wasn't left empty!

Rob C

Eric Myrvaagnes

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« Reply #51 on: August 09, 2010, 11:02:11 AM »

Quote from: Rob C
Me? Bodice ripper? I am the genuine mild-mannered Clark Kent with unexpectedly tonsured hair and no telephone booth.

And there you see my problem with landscape. Like for the painter in question, the prettiest scenery in the world but serves as backdrop to a yet finer figure. And I just can't get over that basic problem of perception. I sometimed think of Keith's Greek pics and how much more they would mean to me were they but gracing another, contemporary Greek goddess... One day, one day he'll surprise me with such a thing.

But seriously, the location in that painting is superb, but it wasn't left empty!

Rob C
But Rob: Empty is beautiful!

I guess it does boil down to needing more equipment: We need to get you a good telephone booth.





Eric

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Rob C

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« Reply #52 on: August 09, 2010, 02:49:15 PM »

Quote from: Eric Myrvaagnes
But Rob: Empty is beautiful!

I guess it does boil down to needing more equipment: We need to get you a good telephone booth.


Eric


But I shall still refuse to wear my undies on the outside!

Rob C

Eric Myrvaagnes

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« Reply #53 on: August 09, 2010, 03:35:11 PM »

Quote from: Rob C
But I shall still refuse to wear my undies on the outside!

Rob C

Sir, you have no respect for Tradition!


Eric

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Steve Kennedy-Williams

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Re: Motivation
« Reply #54 on: August 11, 2010, 03:41:07 PM »

I've recently upgraded to a DSLR, and have thought about why I bought it and why I shoot.

1. To capture memories. Snapshots of family and friends. Most have a shelf life of a week or two but do give pleasure.

2. To force myself to see what is around me. Taking photographs as i go about my life pulls me out of my assumptions of what is around me. At times, this forced reevaluation has led to some beautiful photos.

Of these, the second is my primary motivating force. Whether the results of this process are good is subjective, but the process of creating art (intent) makes me a better person.
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RSL

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Re: Motivation
« Reply #55 on: August 14, 2010, 06:04:08 PM »

The trouble with saying this is that it can be construed as an attack on wedding shooters. Rob C

Rob, I should have caught this one earlier. I must tell you that I have a high regard for wedding shooters, just as I have a high regard for plumbers, carpenters, electricians, etc. They're the folks who keep things running. Without them we'd be in deep do-do. Two of my best friends are, or were, wedding photographers. I shot weddings myself for a while back in the sixties, though as in your case, it just wasn't my thing. But, like plumbing, somebody has to do this kind of work.

michswiss

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Re: Motivation
« Reply #56 on: August 17, 2010, 10:21:30 AM »

Steve, I became serious about my photography again around four years ago.  I didn't know if the desire would really sustain itself so I didn't invest must in kit at the time.   Much of the initial motivation was similar to your second as well.  It was certainly motivation enough to convince me to move into dSLR and reinvest in good glass.  But what I found out was that I needed more that just learning to see what other's might overlook.  I needed to tell stories; single images, short essays, longer projects.


I've recently upgraded to a DSLR, and have thought about why I bought it and why I shoot.

1. To capture memories. Snapshots of family and friends. Most have a shelf life of a week or two but do give pleasure.

2. To force myself to see what is around me. Taking photographs as i go about my life pulls me out of my assumptions of what is around me. At times, this forced reevaluation has led to some beautiful photos.

Of these, the second is my primary motivating force. Whether the results of this process are good is subjective, but the process of creating art (intent) makes me a better person.

JohnKoerner

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Re: Motivation
« Reply #57 on: August 28, 2010, 08:52:05 AM »

I am a little late to joining this discussion, which seems like little more than a missing passion in Rob C. If I may make a few comments of my own:


I need to make one point about street photography before I leave the discussion. Eric hit the nail on the head when he said, "It generally leaves me unmoved unless it displays some significant relationship..." That's exactly what good street photography does, and when it does, it's what I call "art." Good street photography conveys information about the human condition that you can't put into words -- unless, possibly, you're a very, very good novelist or poet. I think it's difficult almost to the point of impossibility to do that in any other photographic genre.

Russ, this statement is true of all good photography; essentially it is a default back to the adage: "A picture's worth a thousand words." Perhaps an addendum could be made, "A great picture cannot be quantified into words." This is as true of a beautifully-captured sunset as it is of a serendipitous capture of a unique human expression or moment: there is a capture of something emotional or moving that cannot be described in any other way, but just to behold it and enjoy it.




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One thing is for sure, banging on here about travelling, making images and the art of photography results in absolutely nothing. At least those tourists are showing an interest and getting out there and actually doing it.
Rant over.
For now...

Keith, I agree with you. I notice there is an infectious pathology here where too many worry about "what others do" (or don't do), and why, instead of just concentrating on doing their own thing for their own reasons.




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I stand by my observations: tourism is a poison that kills without you noticing.
Rob C

Actually, Rob, the real truth is cities full of people in general are a poison to this world ... and are spreading and killing our world with their over-abundance, their waste, and their wanton disregard for trampling what's left of the unspoiled natural beauty of this world. But that's a whole other subject.

Regarding the subject of motivation, at least the photographer tries to appreciate what is beautiful this world by capturing it with his camera.

To me, the whole point of photography is never-ending effort to appreciate and capture the beauty of our world, be that beauty found in the lands, the skies, the seas, the creatures, or the people of this world. The photographer is forever trying to capture something beautiful, or something emotionally/spiritually-moving to him, and therefore this passion to be moved is what forever drives him.




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Interesting question.  I, for one, take pictures avidly when traveling or on vacation.  However, I do the same in my own city, NYC, as well as the surrounding urban and more rural areas.  My actions come from a pair of parallel fascinations.  First is with experience: experience of my surroundings, the people in them, the man-made elements in them and nature's final say on both of those.  Second is with the experience of photography, which for better or worse has been a drive in my life since age 4 or 5.
I enjoy the process of seeing.  This includes things new to me as well as things very familiar to me.  I enjoy the process of reaching for my camera when I see something that says something to me, and that "something" is not always expressable in words although sometimes it is, too.  I enjoy the challenge of making my camera (not 6, but 8 megapixels) through composing and then postprocessing and printing, capture the essence of what moved me when I saw the scene.  I am particularly moved by contrasts in time, contradictions, our impact on nature, and the reverse: nature's impact on us.
I enjoy seeing something in the familiar that many others overlook.  I enjoy finding the beauty in a scene that many would consider ugly, and vice-versa.  When I shoot a record shot I try to capture the angle and perspective that will later remind me
and perhaps show others, how I saw what I saw.  I also enjoy, sometimes many years later, the memories of the experience evoked when I occasionally review my old pictures.
I have stood on the observation deck of the Empire State Building and enjoyed the company of tourists from all over the world, sometimes helping them spot sights that they are looking for to shoot, and the exchanges have always been gratifying. When I travel, I have found as a tourist that local people are eager to show me what they consider impaortant to see in their area.
When I see all those people, arms extended and eyes squinting at almost-dimmed out LCD's, I realize that there is a love of photography that makes it so popular, and it can be considered a democratization of art.
I also admire the amateur painter whom I pass at the ramp from Riverside Drive to the GW Bridge, who paints the same buildings every time I observe him.  I also see, while I am photographing the power of the sea and rocks off Ocean Point, Maine, the same straw-hatted lady, year after year, who paints the "same" ocean scene, just for the sheer enjoyment of translating what her inner eye senses about that scene into physical movement and feel of brush and paint on textured canvas.
Yes, I don't mind selling my prints, either.  But the urge to shoot is very longstanding, and I would not be surprised to find that many of those tourists with point-and-shoots experience some of the same joys, with some of the same motivations, that I experience.

This was a great post. I think a true photographer is somebody who "has" to capture photos because something inside him compels him to do so.

I walk around my property every day (50 acres of Florida wilderness) taking hundreds of photos (most of which I just throw away), just because I love taking photos. I am getting much better at my skills, and yet I still realize I have a long way to go. But none of this matters when I am out there, because I simply enjoy doing it more than anything else. Case in point: I was on the way out the door yesterday, dressed nicely for an appointment, and I happened to see a Great Purple Hairstreak butterfly as I was walking toward my car. I hadn't seen this species in over 2 years, despite uncountable forays into nature, both on my propert and through many Florida State Parks. So I immediately dropped everything in my hands, quickly got my camera, and I proceded to take over 60 pictures of this tiny, beautiful creature ... until it flew away for good. Throughout the process, I had to get on my knees and elbows in the dirt for some shots, and I had to chase it far off into the woods for others, until it simply took off for good. By the time I was done, I had to change my clothes and was unpardonably late to my appointment, but the ability to capture that animal to camera was the only thing I thought about all day long after the fact.

Another person might not have cared, might not have even noticed, but I did notice and I did care very much. Everything was forgotten except the beauty of that animal and my chance to capture it here and now. To me, that is the essence of photography, with different people having different subjects that inspire and drive them to shoot.


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Rob, at the risk of getting personal, you seem to be a perpetual cynic, questioning everything, even your own motivation. You seem to worry too much about what "other people think/do," and/or how something may "look." There is only one thing over which you have complete control and that is you. Questioning your motives can be good, but wallowing in self-questioning is a sign of impotence, a lack of passion. What are you passionate about? If you are passionate about nothing, the real question should be WHY have you lost your passion, and what elements to your life might inspire passion in you?

Once you have a true passion for something, the rest of these silly little questions and self-doubts will instantly become irrelevant.

Jack



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« Last Edit: August 28, 2010, 08:57:08 AM by John Koerner »
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Rob C

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Re: Motivation
« Reply #58 on: August 28, 2010, 03:58:49 PM »



Rob, at the risk of getting personal, you seem to be a perpetual cynic, questioning everything, even your own motivation. You seem to worry too much about what "other people think/do," and/or how something may "look." There is only one thing over which you have complete control and that is you. Questioning your motives can be good, but wallowing in self-questioning is a sign of impotence, a lack of passion. What are you passionate about? If you are passionate about nothing, the real question should be WHY have you lost your passion, and what elements to your life might inspire passion in you?

Once you have a true passion for something, the rest of these silly little questions and self-doubts will instantly become irrelevant.

Jack

...

Interesting how differently two people can read a single mind.

I see no problem with a thread such as this one Ė after all, if it were not so, then no answers to it would have been forthcoming. Even you felt obliged to contribute.

Now, motivation for shooting butterflies may be all very well, but they are either available or they are not, and you seldom have to pay them. My personal interest, on the other hand, is the same one that drew me into the job in the first instance: working with beautiful women, professional models. And thereís the rub: you gotta pay them, if you can find them. And none of those good ones are into prints for time deals and I have no need for the other kind of girl. Neither are they generally willing to do stock, so that route is also out as well as being a ruined business model anyway.

Long retired, there is no natural way that the experience is going to return, indeed, it becomes more unlikely every day.

So, accepting the status quo for what it is, I have to look for something else to spark my mind into action, or, at least, to awaken some other desire that might be dormant somewhere deep within. If it exists, I canít find the damn thing, and it isnít landscape, cityscape, the sea, the trees, the rocks, the plants nor four-legged friends. Even horses with flowing white manes donít cut it. You see the problem.

But, as far as ďwhat others think or doĒ it does interest me very much; I am interested in some people, particularly other photographers, and really do find their work, sites and published works of great interest. I am absolutely interested in hearing/reading what others who have travelled the same paths as I have to say. Why on Earth would I not find other fashion or calendar shooters interesting? I never join clubs, but that one, by default, is one that I would!

You have not had the life experience that I have had. You will probably never realise the buzz from working in those two genres when they are exactly what you have wanted to do all your adult (and teen) life. Fred Gasc, who I believe is currently on holiday, saw that at once, but then he has had experience of that sort of photography; it is so much more than just clicking a shutter, making a pretty composition; it's the creation of a fleeting fantasy for two, itís something you can never willingly let go. People have died because that work has left their lives. There is a tragic list of such people and I can tell you seriously that it isnít difficult to understand why they did what they did; the more success the more is lost when your star wanes, as it usually will.

But hell, you have to be there to read it.

Ciao -

Rob C





« Last Edit: August 28, 2010, 04:04:37 PM by Rob C »
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JohnKoerner

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Re: Motivation
« Reply #59 on: August 28, 2010, 10:59:38 PM »

Interesting how differently two people can read a single mind.

Everything looks different from different angles ...



I see no problem with a thread such as this one Ė after all, if it were not so, then no answers to it would have been forthcoming. Even you felt obliged to contribute.

Touchť

My point was to suggest it is better to discover & pursue a passion rather than to lament a lack of it.




Now, motivation for shooting butterflies may be all very well, but they are either available or they are not, and you seldom have to pay them. My personal interest, on the other hand, is the same one that drew me into the job in the first instance: working with beautiful women, professional models. And thereís the rub: you gotta pay them, if you can find them. And none of those good ones are into prints for time deals and I have no need for the other kind of girl. Neither are they generally willing to do stock, so that route is also out as well as being a ruined business model anyway.

Actually, there are plenty of women who will model for free. I can't remember the online resource, but it was one where amateur models would willingly pose for free, for amateur photographers, so long as the amateur photographer agreed to give the model photos of herself. In other words, while the amateur photographer gets to develop his own "model" portfolio for free ... the amateur model gets to build her own portfolio with free pictures of herself.

Surely there is beauty to be enjoyed in this world other than from beautiful models. If I didn't have butterflies, it would be flowers, or clouds, or the sea. I remember when one boardmember posted beautiful macro shots of snow and ice that he took, when he was stuck in the snow during the winter months. There is always something to enjoy, if one is seeking joy. Same as there is always something to lament, if one is seeking sorrow.

I believe it was Churchill who said, "An optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty; the pessimest sees the difficulty in every opportunity."

Bring your mind around to the positive side ...




Long retired, there is no natural way that the experience is going to return, indeed, it becomes more unlikely every day.

Reminds me once of what an old man told me a few years back; he said: "Jack, when a man gets to be my age, he don't need no Viagra ... what he needs is young &@$$*"




So, accepting the status quo for what it is, I have to look for something else to spark my mind into action, or, at least, to awaken some other desire that might be dormant somewhere deep within. If it exists, I canít find the damn thing, and it isnít landscape, cityscape, the sea, the trees, the rocks, the plants nor four-legged friends. Even horses with flowing white manes donít cut it. You see the problem.

I do see the problem, Rob, it's Churchill's definition of pessimism. It's also reactivism.

Rather than looking at all the opportunities, you're looking at all the difficulties. Rather than sparking yourself into action, you're waiting for something out there to "spark you" into action.




But, as far as ďwhat others think or doĒ it does interest me very much; I am interested in some people, particularly other photographers, and really do find their work, sites and published works of great interest. I am absolutely interested in hearing/reading what others who have travelled the same paths as I have to say. Why on Earth would I not find other fashion or calendar shooters interesting? I never join clubs, but that one, by default, is one that I would!

I agree with you on considering what your peers might have to say or do on similar subjects as you. What I disagree on is "worrying" about what others think or do, most especially about the volume of "other photographers" or "tourists" might out there and what they might be doing. I think it is very productive to gain creative perspective/ideas from peers; but I think it is unproductive to curse the volume of "other photographers" and such that there are in this world.




You have not had the life experience that I have had. You will probably never realise the buzz from working in those two genres when they are exactly what you have wanted to do all your adult (and teen) life. Fred Gasc, who I believe is currently on holiday, saw that at once, but then he has had experience of that sort of photography; it is so much more than just clicking a shutter, making a pretty composition; it's the creation of a fleeting fantasy for two, itís something you can never willingly let go. People have died because that work has left their lives. There is a tragic list of such people and I can tell you seriously that it isnít difficult to understand why they did what they did; the more success the more is lost when your star wanes, as it usually will.

Well, as someone who grew up in Los Angeles and was in or around Hollywood/Beverly Hills most of my life, I understand the "addiction" that such a lifestyle can bring. Me personally, I think "addiction" is a good word to describe it, for the effects are like a drug: feels good, but it's unhealthy. I have always been more of a health nut than a lover of that lifestyle, and I personally far prefer peace and serenity. Can't really stand to be in the city for too long, quite frankly, and I feel unsettled being around any kind of a "fast paced" lifestyle. But that is just me.

By the tone of the above, it sounds like I hit the nail on the head with the lack of passion left and a resulting general pessimism in your outlook. I sure don't wish you any ill will Rob ... and (speaking of age, life experience, and stars) I sure hope you realize some day that all that glitters isn't necessarily gold. Sometimes it's fool's gold. Honestly, I never knew of a "buzz" that didn't come with a price. IMO, there are plenty of healthier things to devote one's time to, and there are an infinite number of other things to get passionate about in this life.




But hell, you have to be there to read it.
Ciao -
Rob C

Well, Rob, you sound kind of deflated. You really shouldn't be. You obviously have talent, you have experience, and you have the ability to write exceptionally well. There are a thousand different things you could devote your talents and energies to that would be worthwhile, perhaps more worthwhile ultimately than anything you have ever devoted yourself to so far. You just have to focus on all the possibilities, not on all of the difficulties.

Best of luck to you,

Jack




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