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Author Topic: Gear for trekking  (Read 4548 times)

Sigi

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Gear for trekking
« on: July 13, 2010, 01:25:09 am »

Hello Bernhard,

very nice article - thank you.

I will do a winter trek in a few months for about 3 weeks in Zanskar. You have to expect night time temperatures of up to -30 C. You have not mentioned anything about camera performance in these temperatures. I am especially interested in battery life and how you handle that.

Thank you for any advice

Siegfried

BernardLanguillier

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Gear for trekking
« Reply #1 on: July 13, 2010, 02:35:39 am »

Quote from: Sigi
Hello Bernhard,

very nice article - thank you.

I will do a winter trek in a few months for about 3 weeks in Zanskar. You have to expect night time temperatures of up to -30 C. You have not mentioned anything about camera performance in these temperatures. I am especially interested in battery life and how you handle that.

Hi Siegfried,

Thanks. Well, since the article was not about photographic equipment I have indeed not discussed any of those aspects.

I have never experienced -30C so I am not sure how things go that cold, but down to -20C I typically do nothing special with my D3x. I just keep it inside the backpack, in its soft pouch. I have never noticed any significant decrease in battery capacity even after cold nights (note that it is of course much warmer in the tent than -20C).

There are no condensation issues since everything is always below zero. The only possible issue is when cooking inside the tent (something that is of course not recommended). The vapour that is created can be annoying if it deposits on the camera (especially the lens front element) so I would definitely keep the camera away during cooking and for the following 20 mins or so.

Other cameras do differ in cold weather resistance though. My old Mamiya ZD offered less than 10 (ten) images per battery charge at -15C, even just after having been fully charged and taken out of a warm inside pocket...  

You should also pay attention to your own breath at all times, it is all to easy to breath on the LCD screen, eyepiece of lens itself. That will typically freeze in a few seconds... annoying.

Cheers,
Bernard

Sigi

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Gear for trekking
« Reply #2 on: July 13, 2010, 07:38:42 am »

Hello Bernhard,

thank you - I have never thought about the "breathing aspect". Do you actually charge your batteries while on the trek or you just take enough?
In case you charge it I would be interested in what you use. I have not found anything yet that looks convincing for a trek

Warm regards

Siegfried

wolfnowl

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Gear for trekking
« Reply #3 on: July 13, 2010, 01:57:57 pm »

Quote from: Sigi
In case you charge it I would be interested in what you use. I have not found anything yet that looks convincing for a trek
Siegfried

I've been more limited in my trekking the past few years so I haven't tried these yet, but they look interesting:

Brunton SolarRolls

There's also an article: Charging in the Wild

Mike.
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Rowat

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Gear for trekking
« Reply #4 on: July 14, 2010, 12:38:22 am »

Siegfried -

I was in Mongolia in Feb of this year and our coldest night hit about -50C. We were trekking for about a week, and sleeping outside without tents the whole time. Most nights weren't that cold, but probably in the -30 to -35C range.

In terms of batteries - I was shooting film (the Mamiya RZ as well as a Mamiya 7). I brought a staggering number of batteries with (think dozens) but in the end didn't go through many of them. All the batteries (lithium) were always against my body whether waking or sleeping. I also had the 'external' battery packs for both sets of cameras - essentially a battery canister and an attaching wire so you can keep it under your parka.

I travelled with a friend who was shooting Canon digital equipment and he had no problems with his batteries - he brought a few with him, kept the camera close, etc., etc but his equipment performed much better than mine. I had rolls of film snap because of the cold; rolls not wind tightly because of the stiffness, etc. etc.

One thing that I did do was always make sure that my cameras were 'out' when we stopped for the night. I would remove the batteries but let the cameras cool down outside (versus putting them in my sleeping bag). This was to avoid any sort of condensation issues. And the big issue with condensation at those temperatures is that it freezes almost immediately. If your breath gets on your lens you are kind of screwed - you now have a nice icy film across the optics. I would often hold my breath when shooting. I also had about 4 bodies with me (sorry Bernard I wasn't going ultra-light because the reindeer were carrying the gear) so had backups when this invariably happened.

The warmer you can keep your batteries the better. And the more stable you can keep your lens/body temperature the better as well. I had brought some chemical warmers with me as well to warm the batteries in case they started to die, but at those temperatures the warmers were basically useless - if I had them in my pocket they worked, but that was about it.

I hope this helps,


Andrew.
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Rowat

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« Reply #5 on: July 14, 2010, 12:50:37 am »

Bernard -

Just a quick note to you about the Exped mats. I had the DownMat 9 Pump DLX with me on the Mongolia trip and I would give it a very middle of the road rating. Don't get me wrong, it is probably the best mat out there given extreme winter conditions, but it feels very much like a beta-level product to me.

Pumping it up takes forever (up to 10mins sometimes). I had experience with Therm-a-Rest mats prior to this and they are very quick to inflate. The difference with the down mat is that you can't use your own hot air to blow into the mat to aid inflation because the moisture in your breath will get the down wet. So it takes a long time, which can be frustrating after a long day.

The other complaint I have with the DownMat is the design of the valve cover. They are very very tight, and as such are extremely difficult to operate when you are wearing thick gloves or mitts. In the end I actually ended up snapping the valve cover off because it was so tight and the plastic brittle at low temperatures. Fortunately what broke was just the clasp that kept it attached to the mat itself, so performance was not compromised.

So as it stands now the DownMat is an acceptable product, without a competitor (that I know of). It could be a great product with some changes to the pumping and valve.


Andrew.
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BernardLanguillier

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Gear for trekking
« Reply #6 on: July 14, 2010, 06:30:03 pm »

Quote from: Rowat
Just a quick note to you about the Exped mats. I had the DownMat 9 Pump DLX with me on the Mongolia trip and I would give it a very middle of the road rating. Don't get me wrong, it is probably the best mat out there given extreme winter conditions, but it feels very much like a beta-level product to me.

Pumping it up takes forever (up to 10mins sometimes). I had experience with Therm-a-Rest mats prior to this and they are very quick to inflate. The difference with the down mat is that you can't use your own hot air to blow into the mat to aid inflation because the moisture in your breath will get the down wet. So it takes a long time, which can be frustrating after a long day.

The other complaint I have with the DownMat is the design of the valve cover. They are very very tight, and as such are extremely difficult to operate when you are wearing thick gloves or mitts. In the end I actually ended up snapping the valve cover off because it was so tight and the plastic brittle at low temperatures. Fortunately what broke was just the clasp that kept it attached to the mat itself, so performance was not compromised.

So as it stands now the DownMat is an acceptable product, without a competitor (that I know of). It could be a great product with some changes to the pumping and valve.

Hi Andrew,

Thanks for the feedback.

Per my own testing it took more like 2-3 mins to fully inflate the regular 9 (not the X version), but still that is indeed much longer than a Therm-a-Rest obviously and could indeed be a problem in the field in extreme conditions like those you encountered in Mongolia.

By the way, what part of Mongolia were you visiting if i may ask?

Cheers,
Bernard

dchew

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Gear for trekking
« Reply #7 on: July 17, 2010, 08:28:48 pm »

Bernard,

Thanks for the article.  In reference to soft shells, I couldn't agree more.  I've recently been using a Patagonia Ascensionist jacket which is very similar to the MH you are using.  These jackets remind me of the old "Mountain Parkas" (pre-gortex).  They were not waterproof, but certainly bombproof, windproof and breathable.  Soft shells are everything they were plus more water resistant.  I think the perfect mix is owning two shells:  A softshell for winter / mountains and a light membrane / gore based jacket for summer/fall situations where rain is the primary concern, not warmth.  Simply leave the one home that doesn't fit the conditions.

Dave
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jfmaion

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Gear for trekking
« Reply #8 on: July 29, 2010, 01:30:26 am »

WRT shooting in the cold: I used to go regularly trekking and shooting above the Arctic Circle and the temperature is a battery-killer, especially if they're more than a year old.

I am not a believer in solar panels, especially in winter. I ended up building an extension cord between the camera and a battery holder (hacked from a charger) so that I could keep the battery against my body at all times. The issue with that the cord becomes rigid when it's really cold, so it's not very convenient and it is prone to breaking. But it did work nicely. Turn that LCD display off, too

Rowat

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Re: Gear for trekking
« Reply #9 on: August 12, 2010, 05:57:34 am »

Bernard -

Sorry for the delayed response (I had notifications off). The part of Mongolia that I was in was near Tsagaannuur in Khövsgöl Province (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tsagaannuur,_Kh%C3%B6vsg%C3%B6l), quite close to the Russian border.


Andrew.
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Gear for trekking
« Reply #10 on: August 13, 2010, 12:03:08 am »

Bernard -

Sorry for the delayed response (I had notifications off). The part of Mongolia that I was in was near Tsagaannuur in Khövsgöl Province (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tsagaannuur,_Kh%C3%B6vsg%C3%B6l), quite close to the Russian border.

Thanks Andrew!

It sounds like a fascinating place.

Cheers,
Bernard

BernardLanguillier

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Re: Gear for trekking
« Reply #11 on: August 13, 2010, 12:05:23 am »

Thanks for the article.  In reference to soft shells, I couldn't agree more.  I've recently been using a Patagonia Ascensionist jacket which is very similar to the MH you are using.  These jackets remind me of the old "Mountain Parkas" (pre-gortex).  They were not waterproof, but certainly bombproof, windproof and breathable.  Soft shells are everything they were plus more water resistant.  I think the perfect mix is owning two shells:  A softshell for winter / mountains and a light membrane / gore based jacket for summer/fall situations where rain is the primary concern, not warmth.  Simply leave the one home that doesn't fit the conditions.

Hi Dave,

Yep, I know that jacket and it sure seems very nice.

I totally agree with your advice on owning a soft + a very light waterpoof jacket.

Cheers,
Bernard

Rowat

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Re: Gear for trekking
« Reply #12 on: March 31, 2012, 02:40:09 pm »

Bernard -

Was looking for a different message of mine in the buy/sell and came across this old thread: there are some of the images from Mongolia at an illegal gold mining camp (ninja mining): http://images.businessweek.com/photos/2012-02-28/ninja-mining
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Gear for trekking
« Reply #13 on: March 31, 2012, 07:21:02 pm »

Wonderful images! Thanks for sharing.

Cheers,
Bernard

MikeMac

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Re: Gear for trekking
« Reply #14 on: April 02, 2012, 06:47:54 am »

Hi Siegfried
Good advice above so I won't repeat any. I'd leave my bag outside too.
A lot of people seem to worry about using cameras in extreme conditions, but in my experience cameras (like people) are more robust than we think. I generally get about a weeks use from a Nikon DSLR battery (D700/D2x) in cold weather, maybe a 2000 shots, although that is a rough guess as I've never accurately recorded it.
It is worth having a spare camera/body along in case of failure. This doesn't have to be as good as the main camera, but even a simple PnS is better than missing the moment totally.
That said, try to keep gear to the minimum as extra weight can be particularly tiring in extreme cold.
Regarding the sleeping mat I use a couple of tricks to keep warm when sleeping in the cold. An extra layer under the mat helps. A plastic or foil bivi bag is good. Using spare clothes, a rucsac, whatever comes to hand that can add extra insulation helps. I also will boil up water before bed and put this in a Nalgene bottle to use as a hot water bottle. The water is generally still warm next morning so can be drunk to help avoid dehydration, rather than cool/cold water that at least in my case, isn't absorbed by my body as well. This bottle trick has saved my bacon a couple of times in Scotland when late spring subzero weather struck when I was lightweight camping with a thin summer sleeping bag.
Thin gloves worn under main gloves also allow the cameras fiddlier settings to be done without flesh being bared.
A good nights sleep, and warm clothes are critical, as if we are cold then we can't concentrate on the photography no matter how well the camera works.
Sorbo style micro fibre clothes i.e. the micro fibre clothes that look like towelling, generally work better at clearing condensation than the smooth micro fibre clothes that are often sold to photographers. Of course if the condensation freezes ....
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