Pages: 1 [2]   Go Down

Author Topic: Mamiya 645 AFD ii with leaf shutter lenses?  (Read 24158 times)

paul_jones

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 574
    • http://www.paulrossjones.com
Mamiya 645 AFD ii with leaf shutter lenses?
« Reply #20 on: August 07, 2010, 03:34:30 pm »

Quote from: Steve Hendrix
It's true that Hasselblad has (1) lens that is faster than 2.8 (the HC100/2.2 vs 110/2.8), but many of their lenses are still faster than Hasselblad lenses (35/2.8>HC35/3.5, 45/2.8 & 55/2.8>HC50/3.5, 150/2.8>150/3.2).

Indeed, none of these cameras are perfect, but the new DF camera (Mamiya or Phase One, either way) is not a horrible plasticky crappy feeling camera. It has improved significantly. Generational improvements from AFD>AFDII>AFDIII were very modest IMO, but AFDIII>DF was a significant improvement. While the shutter lag and auto focus improvements have been mentioned the most, I feel the actual fit/finish/form, which affects handling, is just as significant.

http://www.captureintegration.com/2010/06/...-one-df-camera/

http://www.captureintegration.com/2010/02/...s-would-happen/

I find the feel of the DF camera very pleasing now. Considering what Phase One had to work with, I think it was quite an achievement to improve the product so dramatically. I have had Hasselblad H camera users try it out and express a preference for the feel and handling of the DF camera. I find the two cameras (DF and H) very equivalent now, and choice more a matter of feature preferences, rather than handling.  


Steve Hendrix

ok steve, my next free day i get ill get down to the local phase shop and have a play with the phase version. but not having a waist finder is a major handling issue, and makes many shots impossible without it.

one great feature over the h1/2 will be the promised vertical grip though, when ever this gets released.


and another feature that is way ahead of all the the medium format cameras with the h1 is the eye cup- it works really well. the contax and mamiya only has one that opens 3 sides, isnt soft, and really doesn't stop light. it is one frustration of mine when shooting the contax in the sun (same level of eyecup as mamiya). and theres no way to add a better eyecup as an accessory. this is an issue that so well sorted in the cine area, that im surprised the camera companies havent picked up on it.

paul
« Last Edit: August 07, 2010, 04:11:13 pm by paul_jones »
Logged
check my new website
[url=http://www.pau

ondebanks

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 858
Mamiya 645 AFD ii with leaf shutter lenses?
« Reply #21 on: August 07, 2010, 05:51:50 pm »

That BJP review of the DF was hardly very useful - it had a couple of obvious errors, which didn't inspire confidence in the reviewer.

But you know what would be really useful? A page comparing, in tabular form, the differences between the DF and the P1AF/AFDIII, and heck even between the DF and the AFD and AFDII.

Mamiya produced such a page comparing the AF, AFD and AFDII. I found it extremely useful in deciding that of the three, the AFD was the one I wanted. Knowing exactly how they differed was key to making an informed decision. I think that we are still too much in the dark about precisely what the DF is.

Over to you, Phase One. One or two pages will do nicely. Take Mamiya's table as the starting point, and extend it to the newer models.

Logged

Doug Peterson

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4210
    • http://www.doug-peterson.com
Mamiya 645 AFD ii with leaf shutter lenses?
« Reply #22 on: August 07, 2010, 06:25:35 pm »

Quote from: ondebanks
That BJP review of the DF was hardly very useful - it had a couple of obvious errors, which didn't inspire confidence in the reviewer.

But you know what would be really useful? A page comparing, in tabular form, the differences between the DF and the P1AF/AFDIII, and heck even between the DF and the AFD and AFDII.

Mamiya produced such a page comparing the AF, AFD and AFDII. I found it extremely useful in deciding that of the three, the AFD was the one I wanted. Knowing exactly how they differed was key to making an informed decision. I think that we are still too much in the dark about precisely what the DF is.

Over to you, Phase One. One or two pages will do nicely. Take Mamiya's table as the starting point, and extend it to the newer models.

Ondebanks,

I can do this off the top of my head should you wish to call with serious interest.

A blog entry is very possible, but honestly most of our customers with serious interests are willing to put the DF in their hands for testing based on our overall recommendation and therefore such a blog entry is lower on our priority list than other information.

Doug Peterson

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4210
    • http://www.doug-peterson.com
Mamiya 645 AFD ii with leaf shutter lenses?
« Reply #23 on: August 07, 2010, 06:31:38 pm »

Quote from: paul_jones
ok steve, my next free day i get ill get down to the local phase shop and have a play with the phase version. but not having a waist finder is a major handling issue, and makes many shots impossible without it.

one great feature over the h1/2 will be the promised vertical grip though, when ever this gets released.


and another feature that is way ahead of all the the medium format cameras with the h1 is the eye cup- it works really well. the contax and mamiya only has one that opens 3 sides, isnt soft, and really doesn't stop light. it is one frustration of mine when shooting the contax in the sun (same level of eyecup as mamiya). and theres no way to add a better eyecup as an accessory. this is an issue that so well sorted in the cine area, that im surprised the camera companies havent picked up on it.

You can use the 90 degree periscope finder with the DF (or other Mamiya/Phase).

As far as I'm concerned a waist level finder would be welcome but including it in a camera design creates it's own issues of tolerances, dust, longevity etc. I'm not saying I don't think it would be worth it, but bare in mind the number of users of waist level finders is a pretty small part of the already small MF market. If you own a DF and a back then you can use that same DF with an RZ Pro IID with it's gorgeous extra-large waist level finder (or the normal finder).

Doug Peterson
__________________
Head of Technical Services, Capture Integration
Phase One, Leaf, Cambo, Canon, Apple, Profoto, Eizo & More
National: 877.217.9870  |  Cell: 740.707.2183
Newsletter: Read Latest or Sign Up
RSS Feed: Subscribe
Buy Capture One at 10% off
Personal Work

Doug Peterson

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4210
    • http://www.doug-peterson.com
Mamiya 645 AFD ii with leaf shutter lenses?
« Reply #24 on: August 07, 2010, 06:33:56 pm »

Quote from: paul_jones
and another feature that is way ahead of all the the medium format cameras with the h1 is the eye cup- it works really well. the contax and mamiya only has one that opens 3 sides, isnt soft, and really doesn't stop light. it is one frustration of mine when shooting the contax in the sun (same level of eyecup as mamiya). and theres no way to add a better eyecup as an accessory. this is an issue that so well sorted in the cine area, that im surprised the camera companies havent picked up on it.

Agreed the DF could use such an accessory - When I bought my first dSLR (an Olympus E10) I found a custom telescope eyepiece that was rubber and would partially (intentionally) collapse as you put your eye to the viewfinder, completely blocking the light and allowing complete isolation of the viewfinder image.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2010, 06:34:41 pm by dougpetersonci »
Logged

paul_jones

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 574
    • http://www.paulrossjones.com
Mamiya 645 AFD ii with leaf shutter lenses?
« Reply #25 on: August 07, 2010, 08:15:36 pm »

Quote from: dougpetersonci
You can use the 90 degree periscope finder with the DF (or other Mamiya/Phase).

As far as I'm concerned a waist level finder would be welcome but including it in a camera design creates it's own issues of tolerances, dust, longevity etc. I'm not saying I don't think it would be worth it, but bare in mind the number of users of waist level finders is a pretty small part of the already small MF market. If you own a DF and a back then you can use that same DF with an RZ Pro IID with it's gorgeous extra-large waist level finder (or the normal finder).

Doug Peterson
__________________
Head of Technical Services, Capture Integration
Phase One, Leaf, Cambo, Canon, Apple, Profoto, Eizo & More
National: 877.217.9870  |  Cell: 740.707.2183
Newsletter: Read Latest or Sign Up
RSS Feed: Subscribe
Buy Capture One at 10% off
Personal Work

its not about whether someone uses the feature or not, its the "idea" of solving a problem that everyone wants. otherwise people wouldn't be driving around the suburbs in new 4X4's that have never touched the mud.
if it helps anyone take a shot that they wouldn't otherwise be able get, then its worth it. everybody had waist level finders a few years ago, even if they didn't use them much, when you did need them they were absolutely indispensable. its also something that you have up your sleeve as a "pro" feature that canon doesn't have canon (theres not many).

have you ever actually used a 90degree eye piece thing? ive tried canon ones and mamiya ones and they are so bloody hard to see through, basically useless. dark and weirdly magnified, nothing like looking at any waist finder. whats the big deal about making it? contax has it, hy6, hassy, rz, they all have them, and nobody complains about tolerances or sealing. even the old mamiya m645 had it. i honestly think its the cheap ass designers of the original afd doing a cost- effectiveness analysis of it, and saying they will save $100 per camera if they design it this way. i think the camera are throwing away money with not being able to sell more "add ons" to their system. i remember in the old days when you bought a camera, you bought all sorts of viewfinders, waist level finders, "speed finders", all bits to help the company make profit.

paul
« Last Edit: August 07, 2010, 08:24:02 pm by paul_jones »
Logged
check my new website
[url=http://www.pau

Steve Hendrix

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1662
    • http://www.captureintegration.com/
Mamiya 645 AFD ii with leaf shutter lenses?
« Reply #26 on: August 07, 2010, 08:55:02 pm »

Quote from: paul_jones
ok steve, my next free day i get ill get down to the local phase shop and have a play with the phase version. but not having a waist finder is a major handling issue, and makes many shots impossible without it.

one great feature over the h1/2 will be the promised vertical grip though, when ever this gets released.


and another feature that is way ahead of all the the medium format cameras with the h1 is the eye cup- it works really well. the contax and mamiya only has one that opens 3 sides, isnt soft, and really doesn't stop light. it is one frustration of mine when shooting the contax in the sun (same level of eyecup as mamiya). and theres no way to add a better eyecup as an accessory. this is an issue that so well sorted in the cine area, that im surprised the camera companies havent picked up on it.

paul


Paul, we agree on the older Mamiya versions at least, wasn't disagreeing there. Nor trying to switch you. Just that - to me - the DF doesn't really resemble that description. It still doesn't have a waist level finder, and I agree with you, a waist level finder is a great thing to have. You might not use it all the time, but when you do, it's great. An angle finder doesn't really compare, although the one for the DF works well enough. But it's just not the same thing. I loved the idea of the waist level finder with the Hy6/AFi because you could rotate the back and shoot to a vertical orientation with auto focus lenses.


Steve Hendrix
Logged
Steve Hendrix • 404-543-8475 www.captureintegration.com (e-mail Me)
Phase One | Leaf | Leica | Alpa | Cambo | Sinar | Arca Swiss

paul_jones

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 574
    • http://www.paulrossjones.com
Mamiya 645 AFD ii with leaf shutter lenses?
« Reply #27 on: August 07, 2010, 09:20:05 pm »

Quote from: Steve Hendrix
Paul, we agree on the older Mamiya versions at least, wasn't disagreeing there. Nor trying to switch you. Just that - to me - the DF doesn't really resemble that description. It still doesn't have a waist level finder, and I agree with you, a waist level finder is a great thing to have. You might not use it all the time, but when you do, it's great. An angle finder doesn't really compare, although the one for the DF works well enough. But it's just not the same thing. I loved the idea of the waist level finder with the Hy6/AFi because you could rotate the back and shoot to a vertical orientation with auto focus lenses.


Steve Hendrix

to be fair to the mamiya/phase option, you do have the rz camera option as well. i havent actually used a back on the rz, but it seems like and ok option, on those shoots that you need to shoot both formats, and still need leaf shutter lenses.
Logged
check my new website
[url=http://www.pau

ondebanks

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 858
Mamiya 645 AFD ii with leaf shutter lenses?
« Reply #28 on: August 09, 2010, 07:00:34 pm »

Quote from: paul_jones
if it helps anyone take a shot that they wouldn't otherwise be able get, then its worth it. everybody had waist level finders a few years ago, even if they didn't use them much, when you did need them they were absolutely indispensable.

paul
+1 to Paul.

In fact, +10!

On Saturday night, as I knelt on the ground and craned my neck upwards to frame northern Cygnus in the viewfinder of my equatorially-mounted Mamiya AFD, I really missed the WLF I'd have used on my film M645s in the same situation.  

Logged

ondebanks

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 858
Mamiya 645 AFD ii with leaf shutter lenses?
« Reply #29 on: August 09, 2010, 07:12:11 pm »

Quote from: dougpetersonci
Ondebanks,

I can do this off the top of my head should you wish to call with serious interest.

A blog entry is very possible, but honestly most of our customers with serious interests are willing to put the DF in their hands for testing based on our overall recommendation and therefore such a blog entry is lower on our priority list than other information.

Doug, thanks for the offer. A couple of problems though -
1) I can't afford "serious interest" right now;  
2) Putting the DF in my hands, in your premises, would involve transatlantic flights  

None of which means I should not be able to access the information I'm looking for. Even if I am at present an armchair theorist, a window shopper, a spreadsheet comparator: it is still in the interests of Mamiya/Phase One to tell me, and people like me, as much information as possible about what they are selling.

I don't believe it should be the job of dealers like yourself to have to go scrounging out and blogging this information - that, in my view, is beyond the call of duty. It's the manufacturer's responsibility to document their products fully and to address questions from the market. They're hardly paying you to do it?

Cheers,
Ray
Logged
Pages: 1 [2]   Go Up