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Author Topic: Exporting Monaco Profiler sessions from ColorPort  (Read 4859 times)

shewhorn

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Exporting Monaco Profiler sessions from ColorPort
« on: July 08, 2010, 08:28:42 pm »

A little over a month ago I was trying to decide between Monaco Profiler and Profile Maker. For various reasons I went the Monaco Profiler route (the profiles it generates are more pleasing to me). Unfortunately it took a month for X-Rite to ship it but finally it arrived today. So... as part of the process of trying to decide... being able to use profiles other than the default RGB profiles which are rather limiting (729, 918, or 1728 patches) was important so I called tech support and asked them about this. They said yes, you can create your own custom profiles and then export them as a Monaco Profiler session. The manual alludes to this as well... it says that if it detects Monaco Profiler on the system, it will allow you to save the scan as a profiler session.

Okay... how the heck do you do this? I see no such option.

Cheers, Joe
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digitaldog

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Exporting Monaco Profiler sessions from ColorPort
« Reply #1 on: July 08, 2010, 08:34:39 pm »

I’m not sure I fully understand the question (what you are trying to do here).

A session is basically the measured data in a file you can load and build a profile. Is this what you want? Profiler asks you after building a profile if you want to save a session. You can also select the Save Session menu item.

Quote
They said yes, you can create your own custom profiles and then export them as a Monaco Profiler session.

Yes, you create a custom profile, using one of the three patch sizes you refer to. You build and save it and you save the session if you wish. Double clicking on the session launches Profiler and has the measured data to rebuild the profile again (perhaps with differing settings).
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Pat Herold

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Exporting Monaco Profiler sessions from ColorPort
« Reply #2 on: July 08, 2010, 08:37:02 pm »

Hi Joe,

There is an extensive help section built into ColorPort.  Look for a page called "Creating a new patch set".

Basically you choose New from within Patch Set and import a color list of reference values from any of the common supported formats.
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shewhorn

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Exporting Monaco Profiler sessions from ColorPort
« Reply #3 on: July 08, 2010, 08:56:24 pm »

Quote from: digitaldog
Yes, you create a custom profile, using one of the three patch sizes you refer to. You build and save it and you save the session if you wish. Double clicking on the session launches Profiler and has the measured data to rebuild the profile again (perhaps with differing settings).

I asked support if I could create a target with patch sizes OTHER than the three provided which are restrictive. 1728 in Argyll and the ProfileMaker engine don't render great results at all. 918 is not quite enough . 1250ish seems to be the sweet spot for my machine. They said yes, create the custom profile, scan it in and save it as a Monaco Profiler session.

Cheers, Joe
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digitaldog

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« Reply #4 on: July 08, 2010, 09:07:11 pm »

Quote from: shewhorn
I asked support if I could create a target with patch sizes OTHER than the three provided which are restrictive. 1728 in Argyll and the ProfileMaker engine don't render great results at all. 918 is not quite enough . 1250ish seems to be the sweet spot for my machine. They said yes, create the custom profile, scan it in and save it as a Monaco Profiler session.

OK, then the post above was what was confusing:
Quote
They said yes, you can create your own custom profiles

You mean yes, you can create your own custom targets. You can, as Pat mentioned in ColorPort which doesn’t have much to do with a session. You can, after measuring a target in ColorPort, have it launch Profiler but that’s a different story.

The session file, as I explained, is just a saved document that contains what you measured, the settings you used to build the profile etc. You load it to either rebuild a profile with the same settings or alter some of the settings. It has nothing to do with targets other than it stores the existing target data you measured initially.

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shewhorn

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Exporting Monaco Profiler sessions from ColorPort
« Reply #5 on: July 08, 2010, 09:17:21 pm »

Quote from: pherold
Hi Joe,

There is an extensive help section built into ColorPort.  Look for a page called "Creating a new patch set".

Basically you choose New from within Patch Set and import a color list of reference values from any of the common supported formats.

Thanks Patrick... I've created a few custom patch sets already based upon data I generated in a spreadsheet and have already imported them, created the target, printed it, and scanned it in using ColorPort. The problem I'm having is that when I spoke with tech support I specifically told them I wanted to create a profile with n number of patches because the 343, 729, and 1728 patch targets weren't sufficient for what I wanted to do. XRite support claimed I COULD create custom patch sets like this and then open them in Profiler by saving as a Monaco Profiler session and then opening it in Profiler. It's looking like this is actually not the case which is really unfortunate (otherwise I might have gone with Profile Maker).

Cheers, Joe
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shewhorn

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« Reply #6 on: July 08, 2010, 09:26:56 pm »

Quote from: digitaldog
OK, then the post above was what was confusing:


You mean yes, you can create your own custom targets. You can, as Pat mentioned in ColorPort which doesn’t have much to do with a session. You can, after measuring a target in ColorPort, have it launch Profiler but that’s a different story.

The session file, as I explained, is just a saved document that contains what you measured, the settings you used to build the profile etc. You load it to either rebuild a profile with the same settings or alter some of the settings. It has nothing to do with targets other than it stores the existing target data you measured initially.

Thanks Andrew,

Sorry for the confusion... just to clarify further... I want to actually be able to use these custom profiles that I've created and scanned in, in Monaco Profiler to generate an output profile. X-Rite's support had indicated that this was indeed possible by saving as a Monaco Profiler session from ColorPort after having scanned in the target, and then opening that stored session in Profiler. I understand what a session stores, this was suggested as a work around to get past the restrictions of Monaco Profiler only supporting 324, 729, and 1728 patch targets.

Cheers, Joe
« Last Edit: July 08, 2010, 09:28:07 pm by shewhorn »
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digitaldog

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« Reply #7 on: July 08, 2010, 09:57:42 pm »

Quote
I want to actually be able to use these custom profiles that I've created and scanned in, in Monaco Profiler to generate an output profile.

The correct language is an issue here. You want to use custom targets to build profiles I assume.

Unlike ProfileMaker (with its target generator), you can’t create and build profiles using custom targets in Profiler. As Pat said, you can create a custom target in ColorPort, and measure it too. But that doesn’t mean you can then build a profile from the results. If you look at ColorPort, you’ll see (for RGB) three targets listed with the words “X-Rite Profile” next to it. The manual states:
Quote
If you are creating a target for use by MonacoPROFILER, select a patch setting beginning with "X-Rite Profile".

There are only three for RGB output profiles.

ProfileMaker Pro is a different beast. Its profile target generator allows you to enter a number of patches, number of pages etc and will build the target and reference, even a barcode for the target using an iSis. It will read in and build an actual ICC profile from that custom target.

ColorPorts ability to build custom targets is very useful for tasks that are not “output profile building” specific. Its something MeasureTool’s profile generator doesn’t accomplish.

So you’re kind of “stuck” using one of three targets for RGB profiles.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2010, 09:58:33 pm by digitaldog »
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shewhorn

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Exporting Monaco Profiler sessions from ColorPort
« Reply #8 on: July 08, 2010, 10:17:17 pm »

Quote from: digitaldog
The correct language is an issue here. You want to use custom targets to build profiles I assume.

OY.... believe you me... actually know this. I'm running on 3 hours of sleep in the past 36 hours, juggling five different fires at the moment and I'm not thinking clearly. Thanks for catching that... yes, targets. :-)

Quote
Unlike ProfileMaker (with its target generator), you can’t create and build profiles using custom targets in Profiler. As Pat said, you can create a custom target in ColorPort, and measure it too. But that doesn’t mean you can then build a profile from the results. If you look at ColorPort, you’ll see (for RGB) three targets listed with the words “X-Rite Profile” next to it. The manual states:


There are only three for RGB output profiles.

ProfileMaker Pro is a different beast. Its profile target generator allows you to enter a number of patches, number of pages etc and will build the target and reference, even a barcode for the target using an iSis. It will read in and build an actual ICC profile from that custom target.

ColorPorts ability to build custom targets is very useful for tasks that are not “output profile building” specific. Its something MeasureTool’s profile generator doesn’t accomplish.

So you’re kind of “stuck” using one of three targets for RGB profiles.

Thanks for the clarification. I think I got some bad information (although it would seem, based on a few flaky posts tonight that I provided bad input when asking the question to tech support... I wasn't that frazzled and mixing words up, etc.  ).

Crap.

Alright, it can't be done. That's what I was looking for (well... not really, but it is an answer). Bummer... 729 to 1728 patches.... neither of those two are of much use to me. Live an learn. Hoping I can do an exchange.

Cheers, Joe
« Last Edit: July 08, 2010, 10:18:28 pm by shewhorn »
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digitaldog

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« Reply #9 on: July 08, 2010, 10:45:42 pm »

The 1728 patch target should make a lovely profile.
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shewhorn

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« Reply #10 on: July 09, 2010, 12:37:24 am »

Quote from: digitaldog
The 1728 patch target should make a lovely profile.

I'm actually giving that a try right now. My experience with Argyll, and the ProfileMaker engine (through experimentation) has been that generally, larger targets don't yield as good of a result as the smaller targets tend to with this particular printer. I particularly notice the difference in the smoothness of the profile generated as well as areas of shadow detail.

... finished generating an ICC profile halfway through writing this... played with it for a little while....

Well, I chose Monaco Profiler because of many of the profiles I've compared, I've liked the results that Profiler renders better than anything else.... I have to run off some test prints but if the soft proof is indicative... compared to Argyll and ProfileMaker, this profile seems to be doing a better job with retaining detail in saturated colors. The yellow flowers, and the dark green stems are holding their color and detail much better than PM an Argyll. I may end up happy after all although some more control would be nice.

Cheers, Joe
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