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Author Topic: Are 3.5" floppies archival  (Read 4130 times)

BrianWoolf

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Are 3.5" floppies archival
« on: July 04, 2010, 08:11:46 pm »

A while back, I wondered where all my digital photo/art files were, stuff that I had done a long time ago, Since I don't really throw much away, I must have them. So out of mothballs, comes my UMAX C500, mac clone computer. I start digging around in my scsi drive box and connecting them. Strangely, not a file on those hard drives. Where were they, maybe on my mac floppies. Started looking and found floppies with digital art titles, I found them. I started inserting them into the computer and every floppy read and all the files were there. I must have put more than 20 floppies and not one error. I copied a lot to the UMAX's hard drive with no problems. Open a few in Photoshop and everyone was fine. The creation dates on these file was 1992, which would have been correct, 18 year old floppies.
   Then I thought about where I started this stuff, in the 80's on my Atari. So a little more digging and I found my Atari floppies. Dusted the layers of dust off the floppy boxes and into the mac clone they went. Everyone read, no problems, copied a bunch of files over on to the hard drive. Couldn't open these files as they were Atari specific, but the creation date on them was 1985. The Atari did not come with a battery to keep track of time and date and would default to computer creation date, but these files were created 1986 thru 1990. So now I have 20-24 year old floppies. Maybe I put 12 to 16 atari floppies thru with no trouble. None of these floppies was stored very well, just in the back of a closet or under a desk gathering dust

   So any ideas how long 3.5" floppies might last, should last???

Brian
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wolfnowl

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Are 3.5" floppies archival
« Reply #1 on: July 04, 2010, 11:05:48 pm »

about as long as a disposable pen is probably a good answer...

Mike.
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Joe Behar

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Are 3.5" floppies archival
« Reply #2 on: July 04, 2010, 11:31:11 pm »

Quote from: BrianWoolf
So any ideas how long 3.5" floppies might last, should last???

Brian

Floppies are magnetic media...no different than audio or video tape. I have not bothered to check for reliable data on the lifespan of those, but I'm sure they can last many more years than 20-25, assuming the environment is not extreme.

Having said that, if I were you, I'd be copying to an external drive and making CD or DVD backups. Not that either of those is archival, but at least you now have two copies on media that will be reliably readable for a number of years yet.
« Last Edit: July 04, 2010, 11:34:12 pm by Joe Behar »
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K.C.

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Are 3.5" floppies archival
« Reply #3 on: July 05, 2010, 03:25:24 am »

Quote from: Joe Behar
Floppies are magnetic media...no different than audio or video tape.

Yeah, but not really.

They rely on a small pad inside the case that lubricates the media as is spins. When they don't get used the media drys out and gets very brittle. At the very least they suffer from a tremendous number of dropouts and at worst they crumble.

I'd get them backed up ASAP, if they'll even run.

About as non-archival as media gets.
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Jack Flesher

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Are 3.5" floppies archival
« Reply #4 on: July 05, 2010, 12:52:46 pm »

Quote from: wolfnowl
about as long as a disposable pen is probably a good answer...
   

The OP question has to be a joke...
« Last Edit: July 05, 2010, 12:53:36 pm by Jack Flesher »
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daws

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Are 3.5" floppies archival
« Reply #5 on: July 05, 2010, 10:35:59 pm »

From the Sept. 2003 issue of User Friendly, the Journal of the Los Angeles Computer Society:

Archival librarians have long
been wrestling with the implications
of storing important historical
documents on digital
media.

How long will floppy disks last?
A CD-R? A zip disk? Hard
drive? Tests by the National
Media Lab show that the best
quality CD- ROMs stored under
ideal conditions are expected
to last from between 50 and
100 years. Most zip drive owners
have experienced the
"click of death," signaling last
throes of a damaged disk or
drive.

Floppy disks are not certified
for long-term archival storage,
which is defined as more than
three years. If your records are
stored on floppies:

PRECAUTIONS WITH FLOPPIES
* Never allow anything to touch
the magnetic surfaces of a disk.
A fingerprint will leave an oil
residue and tiny scratches that
cause permanent damage.
* Always store 5.25" floppy
disks in their disk jacket, and
avoid squishing them together
in overloaded diskette boxes.
* Avoid high humidity environments
and choose a location at
room temperature, which is
free from fumes, dust and vibration.
* Avoid leaving disks in high
heat, such as parked cars or
mail boxes.
* With 5.25" floppy disks, fill
out the label before attaching it
to the disk. If the label is attached,
use a felt tipped pen.
Avoid using Liquid Paper on
disk labels, as loose particles
can cause surface scratches.
Paper clips can cause magnetic
corruption or come loose and
wiggle their way into the disk
jacket.
* Floppy disks are rated for
temperatures within the range
of 10 to 45°C. Continual temperature
fluctuations should
also be avoided.
* Magnets can destroy data.
Sources of magnetic fields include
battery chargers and
power packs, electric clocks,
computer monitors, modems,
printers, computer speakers,
telephones, radios, electric
typewriters, and magnetized
hand tools .
* Disk drives collect dust and
foreign matter, which can
cause surface scratches on
disks. Clean them.

OTHER MEDIA
These tips will serve you well
for almost any medium. Keep
your digital archives at a stable
temperature and humidity,
handle them at a minimum,
keep them clean, don't shove
them into dirty drives, don't
moosh them together and keep
them away from magnets.

To add another level of insurance,
keep all of your important
records in duplicate in
case a disk or tape fails, Even
better, keep them stored in two
different media, for example,
on a zip drive and on a CD
ROM.

Archivists sometimes "refresh"
their media. Every year or two
pull out all your archived material
and copy them onto fresh
disks. And, even though it
might not be apparent to the
naked eye, technology does
improve. Modern floppies have
better anti-static shielding.
Newer CDR's are less vulnerable
to corrosion.

After archiving your data,
check out the new disk to make
sure it works. Quickly check to
make sure the old and new
disk contain the same number
of bytes, but also open a few
files to make sure they are not
corrupted.

You've done your best to physically,
safeguard your disks, but
that's just half the problem. The
other challenge you face is
technological obsolescence.
Think back on Phil's master's
thesis. It was stored on a 5 1/4"
floppy. Do you have one on
your current computer? Probably
not! Some new computers
that come bundled with CDROM
bumers do not include
floppy drives at all. There are
many new storage technologies
hitting the market, such as
flash memory, smart cards,
Orbs, Jazz, LS120, Read-Write
DVD, magneto-optical drives
and pocket hard drives that
plug into a USB port. Will these
technologies still exist 50 or
100 years from now?

UPGRADE YOUR MEDIA
One solution is to "migrate".
your archives to new media
every time you upgrade or replace
your computer. If you're
like most people, that's every
18 months to 3 years. Pause for
a moment and pay attention to
the newest computers and how
they are configured. If you notice
a trend, such as new systems
shipping without floppy
drives, it's probably time to
consider a different archival
medium. Your floppies, Zip
disks, or whatever could be
ready for the great computer
museum in the sky. This is also
the time to inventory every archival
disk you own to make
sure it survives the migration.
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Sheldon N

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Are 3.5" floppies archival
« Reply #6 on: July 05, 2010, 11:39:44 pm »

I think I'm going to start using them for off site backup. The only downside is that it's going to take me 15 floppies to hold each one of my 1Ds III images.  
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wolfnowl

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Are 3.5" floppies archival
« Reply #7 on: July 06, 2010, 03:57:43 am »

Also keep in mind that floppies were notorious for having challenges between one drive and another.  I don't know how many times a disk formatted in one drive couldn't be read by another.  That was a bigger problem with 5 1/4 and 8" drives, but 3 1/2" drives had their share of problems as well.

Mike.
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pete_truman

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Are 3.5" floppies archival
« Reply #8 on: July 06, 2010, 03:41:41 pm »

I found a collection of my old floppy discs recently and decided to throw them out given I no longer possess a drive that will read them. That's possibly one of the larger dangers of using them as archival media - nothing to read them with. Equally, software used may no longer be available or no longer recognise the old file formats, so I try to ensure I maintain an archive of neutral (or lowest common denominator) formats.

Happily some years ago I converted and saved their contents to a tiny corner of my ever expanding hard drive array, so can still access their contents.
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Jack Flesher

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Are 3.5" floppies archival
« Reply #9 on: July 09, 2010, 08:40:43 pm »

I had a friend ask me if I had one the other day.  It seems his older server needed one in the drive to do a system check and install a file.  Didn't need any data on the floppy, just needed a floppy in the drive to complete the system check and load a file from the OS DVD... I gave him one with photos on it from an old Sony 640x480 still digicam that actually recorded on 3.5" floppies LOLOL.  Anyway it worked and he's happy.
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Eric Myrvaagnes

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Are 3.5" floppies archival
« Reply #10 on: July 10, 2010, 09:51:13 am »

I've got an 8-inch floppy disk. I keep it pinned on a wall. Any of the rest of you old enough to remember or even to have seen an 8-inch floppy?  

Eric
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Jeremy Roussak

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Are 3.5" floppies archival
« Reply #11 on: July 10, 2010, 10:26:53 am »

Quote from: Eric Myrvaagnes
I've got an 8-inch floppy disk. I keep it pinned on a wall. Any of the rest of you old enough to remember or even to have seen an 8-inch floppy?  

Eric
Yes. I remember paper tape, too, and 110-baud teletypes with horrible keyboards in UPPER CASE ONLY and a PDP-7 with 8k of core memory, the size of two large fridges, and hand-assembling programs before entering them one 18-bit word at a time using the toggle switches on the front panel and switching the machine off and coming back a few days later to find my program still there and the amazement the first time I used a light pen. Happy days.

Jeremy
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Eric Myrvaagnes

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Are 3.5" floppies archival
« Reply #12 on: July 10, 2010, 10:05:28 pm »

Quote from: kikashi
Yes. I remember paper tape, too, and 110-baud teletypes with horrible keyboards in UPPER CASE ONLY and a PDP-7 with 8k of core memory, the size of two large fridges, and hand-assembling programs before entering them one 18-bit word at a time using the toggle switches on the front panel and switching the machine off and coming back a few days later to find my program still there and the amazement the first time I used a light pen. Happy days.

Jeremy

"PDP-7?" Are they up to 7 now? The first computer from Digital that I worked on was a PDP-1.    


Eric




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