The importance of the spouse

[fredjeang]

Not really. If a man has an insatiable sexual appetite, it's also considered an illness. Consider the film star Michael Douglas and the more recent revelations re Tiger Woods. Sex addiction, whether in the male or female, is considered to be a treatable condition.

Since you seem to know something about Gala and Dali, is it true that Dali sometimes watched his wife having sex with other men? Did he use them as subjects for some hidden pornographic paintings?

I know from absolute trustable sources in France that Dali did organised hot parties at home, but he personally did not participate. He was not just interested. He would just disappear while the guests where living their life. That was also very wised.

We are now in the Luminous hotscape and don't know if not out of topic.
Moderators will irrupt soon with some ice cubes to cool down the terminology  
Maybe we should focus again on the matter and the photo business before they close it.

[Ray]

I know from absolute trustable sources in France that Dali did organised hot parties at home, but he personally did not participate. He was not just interested. He would just disappear while the guests where living their life. That was also very wised.

We are now in the Luminous hotscape and don't know if not out of topic.
Moderators will irrupt soon with some ice cubes to cool down the terminology  
Maybe we should focus again on the matter and the photo business before they close it.

Okay! I understand.

My spouse is Chinese. She has no practical business sense whatsoever. But she has a strong ethos of saving money. She'd spend $10 in order to save $5. We argue a lot but I guess I love her, against all reason. The European/Russian cruises were her idea.

[Rob C]

Okay! I understand.

My spouse is Chinese. She has no practical business sense whatsoever. But she has a strong ethos of saving money. She'd spend $10 in order to save $5. We argue a lot but I guess I love her, against all reason. The European/Russian cruises were her idea.

Ray

Note my italics above!!

I always thought that that sort of psychology was the natural preserve of the Brits: we are reputed to be willing to drive fifty miles to a hypermarket in order to get three packs of cornflakes more cheaply than we can at the corner store. Well, when there were corner stores before the super/hypers killed most of them...

Regarding sexual appetite à la affliction: it has always smacked, to me, as a defence born of an easy and modern way out of an embarrassing case of caught in the act! Never heard of a poor man having such a problem. He only gets caught in the act, if he gets caught at all, and it is either accepted and forgiven, possibly condoned or he goes to sleep alone for the duration of the sulk. Or due process.

Regarding relationships behind the artist - does it matter if they turned out to be positive or negative ones? The point is, they made the difference, however it turned out, and that's the theme - I think!

Rob

[fredjeang]

Ray

Note my italics above!!

I always thought that that sort of psychology was the natural preserve of the Brits: we are reputed to be willing to drive fifty miles to a hypermarket in order to get three packs of cornflakes more cheaply than we can at the corner store. Well, when there were corner stores before the super/hypers killed most of them...

Regarding sexual appetite à la affliction: it has always smacked, to me, as a defence born of an easy and modern way out of an embarrassing case of caught in the act! Never heard of a poor man having such a problem. He only gets caught in the act, if he gets caught at all, and it is either accepted and forgiven, possibly condoned or he goes to sleep alone for the duration of the sulk. Or due process.

Regarding relationships behind the artist - does it matter if they turned out to be positive or negative ones? The point is, they made the difference, however it turned out, and that's the theme - I think!

Rob

Yes, that was the all point of the article too.
In fact he was stressing that it has a much more important influence that we generally might think. In a positive or negative way.

[Ray]

Ray

Note my italics above!!

I always thought that that sort of psychology was the natural preserve of the Brits: we are reputed to be willing to drive fifty miles to a hypermarket in order to get three packs of cornflakes more cheaply than we can at the corner store. Well, when there were corner stores before the super/hypers killed most of them...

Regarding sexual appetite à la affliction: it has always smacked, to me, as a defence born of an easy and modern way out of an embarrassing case of caught in the act! Never heard of a poor man having such a problem. He only gets caught in the act, if he gets caught at all, and it is either accepted and forgiven, possibly condoned or he goes to sleep alone for the duration of the sulk. Or due process.

Regarding relationships behind the artist - does it matter if they turned out to be positive or negative ones? The point is, they made the difference, however it turned out, and that's the theme - I think!

Rob

Rob,
It's all a matter of practical common sense. Some folks have it, and other folks don't. We're stuck with our genes and upbringing. Sex is an unavoidable reality. It has to be dealt with, one way or another.

I tend to opt for self control. I didn't shag those Thai transvestites I've posted images of on this site. They were just photographic subjects of interest who were compliant and proud to be photographed, just as I imagine many of your female models for Pirelli calanders were.

[Rob C]

Rob,
It's all a matter of practical common sense. Some folks have it, and other folks don't. We're stuck with our genes and upbringing. Sex is an unavoidable reality. It has to be dealt with, one way or another.

I tend to opt for self control. I didn't shag those Thai transvestites I've posted images of on this site. They were just photographic subjects of interest who were compliant and proud to be photographed, just as I imagine many of your female models for Pirelli calanders were.

Ray

I would imagine it might be very difficult to do what you believably deny doing: the limitations on available strategies would naturally seem to preclude it!

But it leads us into an as interesting thought: the model psychology.

One girl once told me that in her opinion, all of them, 'us' she phrased it, have something wrong with 'us'. I didn't believe it at the time, but those words have come back to me quite often over the years and I have started to include many photographers within the collective 'us'.

To be honest, I now believe some of us inhabit a sort of parallel world, a space where we try to suspend the humdrum, deny its existence even, in an effort to make life as interesting as we believe it should be. That's why some search for themselves within it whilst others simply examine the hardware. I have worked alongside other photographers who did the job, went home and never gave it another thought until the following day when they got off the bus or parked the car. Others I have known, self included, thought of little else all day long. I don't think you slip from one sort into the another - I guess you are type-cast from the beginning; as you suggest, the genes have a lot for which to answer!

But does it really make the measure of success or not? I remember seing a documentary on the 60s fashion photography scene and Jean Shrimpton was interviewed. As I remember it, she seemed not really to care much (at the time of the interview) about her fame at the time with Bailey. Yet there it was - success and the world at her feet and possibly without really caring about it all? Or because of not really caring? I don't appear to remember Shrimpton going through a decline: she was ubiquitous and then she was not; like a butterfly whose season arrives with a glow of warm sunshine and is then gone before you notice.

Is it delusion? Can we create a word for ourselves that matches the expectation, the hopes?

I still don't know and the time for finding out is pretty well blown.

Rob C

[fredjeang]

Is it delusion? Can we create a word for ourselves that matches the expectation, the hopes?


Rob C

I think that this word is clew: expectation

Strictly talking from my experience, and trying to avoid falling in abstract philosophy, the concept of expectation is the problem.

Precisely because there is expectation, there is no possibility of acheivement.  

When there is expectation, is that something is expected.
The problem is that there is a confusion between the acheivement of the expectation, the goal, and the way to reach that goal.

The goal is nothing exiting. When you get it, it is just disappointing, unsubstantial. And then you need another one because this one is just borring.
What really is exiting, is the path.

Think of a montain climber. What do you feel when you reached a summit? In this precise moment? You just stays there a few minutes because you have to go down quickly. People did not understand very well why Amstrong and Aldrin where not excited when they walked on the moon (please no hoax debate).
Simply because what is exiting is the path. Once you're there there is nothing, just boring but another chalenge.

Have you ever felt some kind of short depression when you finally acheived a difficult project? You've been working on it like crazy during many time, you put all your energy and expectations in it. Suddenly, you did it, it's done. What do you feel? Depressing instant. Nothing interesting any more there. Nada.
Suddenly you feel completly empty. The sense of your efforts has just collapsed on these seconds.

The path is the goal, and the goal is the path.

So, what is exiting is the shooting, not the result. Not the 2 pages editorial in Vogue that has been acheived, but just the shooting.

[Rob C]

Have you ever felt some kind of short depression when you finally acheived a difficult project? You've been working on it like crazy during many time, you put all your energy and expectations in it. Suddenly, you did it, it's done. What do you feel? Depressing instant. Nothing interesting any more there. Nada.
Suddenly you feel completly empty. The sense of your efforts has just collapsed on these seconds.

That's exactly right.

I can remember the sudden and unexpected depression, alone in the studio after the model had left following a great shoot.

As for post-c blues - let's not even go there. That's why even in the movies the folks light up a cigarette - nothing better to do with their hands or minds. Many things collapse in those few seconds, many regrets surface.

Rob C

[Ray]

The path is the goal, and the goal is the path.

So, what is exiting is the shooting, not the result. Not the 2 pages editorial in Vogue that has been acheived, but just the shooting.

Fred,
I think we can agree on this point. It certainly resonates with me. This concept is often phrased as "Life's a Journey", or, "It's the Journey that counts".

But for me, I get two paths; the excitement of travelling and taking photos, followed by the excitement of exploring the editing and processing possibilities offered by Photoshop   .

[fredjeang]

Fred,
I think we can agree on this point. It certainly resonates with me. This concept is often phrased as "Life's a Journey", or, "It's the Journey that counts".

But for me, I get two paths; the excitement of travelling and taking photos, followed by the excitement of exploring the editing and processing possibilities offered by Photoshop   .

Agree. That is also part of the path. So I'll ad to my previous post "just the shooting and the editing".

[Rob C]

Fred,
I think we can agree on this point. It certainly resonates with me. This concept is often phrased as "Life's a Journey", or, "It's the Journey that counts".

But for me, I get two paths; the excitement of travelling and taking photos, followed by the excitement of exploring the editing and processing possibilities offered by Photoshop   .

And there we differ: once the shot's shot, so am I. I find the subsequent processes to be relatively boring. I get very little buzz from actually doing any Photoshop stuff even though I do sometimes enjoy the final result on paper or on the sceen. For me, that's a part of the 'journey' too far, a bit like that last hour on the journey back home.

But this isn't new: it was like that even in my youth. My enthusiasm was all tied up in the shoot - everything after that was not so much anticlimactic as much as a nuisance. As with the tourist trade, photography shares the common sentiment: why can't they just send the cheque and stay home?

Rob C

[blansky]

As for the business side of studio portrait photography which is my background, the wife may very well be the reason that many male photographer are still in business. The basic premise that a creative person is rarely good at business is probably true and whether it's blowing money on the latest equipment or the fact that he knows and cares very little about the actual business side of things, the wife is very often the one who holds things together.

A lot of the most successful portrait photographers (main street studio types) all have the wife running the business end, the hiring, selling, talking to clients and booking sessions, and handling the advertising.

In fact a lot of the newer studios are now run by women, with women photographers and managed by them as well.

Maybe men are an endangered species.

Michael

[Rob C]

Don't know about an endangered species, but I think you are pretty much on the money, Michael, regarding the rôle of women in some businesses. I think that a great part of it may have to do with inter-personal skills: females seem to have these under a far better state of development than do males, which is partly why I suppose so many of them are to be found at the sharp end of selling to the public. Further, where they are working in tandem with a male photographer, they are able to disassociate themselves from the immediate zone of damaged pride should any little quibble arise about the work - they can agree, or explain why they do not, in a one-step-removed manner and even suggest mutually helpful solutions.

The one thing they should have, though, is real understanding of the subject if they are in a specialist situation. Few things are more frustrating than being up against a woman who really doesn't know what she's talking about - there is the frustration of not wanting to be rude mixed with anger at the thought of perhaps having this woman there for that very purpose of fobbing one off!

So like Kodachrome, she has to be very good or she ends up being very bad! (Thank goodnes I usually met good Kodachrome ladies in those little cassettes.)

Rob C