Pages: 1 ... 4 5 [6] 7   Go Down

Author Topic: SpectraView II matrices for wide gamut monitors?  (Read 32241 times)

annamaerz

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 34
SpectraView II matrices for wide gamut monitors?
« Reply #100 on: June 28, 2010, 02:55:25 PM »

Quote from: digitaldog
They are telling the truth. I just check with X-Rite and sure enough, they are producing the unit for some OEM’s which is good news.

So here comes the question anew:

In the light of the information about recent restart of production of DTP94, which was not optimized for wide gamut displays, is it difficult, expensive, expensive to custom correct this puck like it was done by NEC for the i1d2? Considering its again a supported product, and again manufactured!
« Last Edit: June 28, 2010, 02:57:35 PM by annamaerz »
Logged

digitaldog

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 11528
    • http://digitaldog.net/
SpectraView II matrices for wide gamut monitors?
« Reply #101 on: June 28, 2010, 02:59:09 PM »

Quote from: annamaerz
In the light of the information about recent restart of production of DTP94, which was not optimized for wide gamut displays, is it difficult, expensive, expensive to custom correct this puck? Considering its again a supported product, and again manufactured!

I don’t know. But what I do know is that originally the DTP94 was an expensive product to manufacturer and that was the primary reason it was canned when GMB and X-Rite became one (GMB had the EyeOne Display). That may be another reason why updating filters in an EyeOne Display-2 is the norm now. At some point, OEMs are going to balk at the costs. At what point does it not pay to do a custom upgrade when for perhaps similar money, you can get yourself a Spectrophotometer?
Logged
Andrew Rodney
Author “Color Management for Photographers”
http://digitaldog.net/

WombatHorror

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 299
SpectraView II matrices for wide gamut monitors?
« Reply #102 on: June 28, 2010, 04:58:37 PM »

Quote from: Steve Weldon
Larry -  If you wouldn't mind terribly..  Would you give me the link on Amazon where you ordered yours?  Mine hasn't shipped yet and it would be somewhat reassuring they're sending me the right one.  There were two places that claim to have them.. The Amazon Market Place (the only place that will ship to me here overseas) and a place called Proline.

It would be somewhat irritating to pay the shipping over here, not to mention the heavy VAT and customs fees.. and get an old one..

Thanks!

Sorry but it appears they have sold out.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001P3OGZG/ref=oss_product

When I first looked at it they said they had 3 left with more coming soon. When I ordered it a few days later they said they had 2 left. Now they are gone and they jacked the price ip and say 1-2 months (not exactly more coming soon hah).

Logged

WombatHorror

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 299
SpectraView II matrices for wide gamut monitors?
« Reply #103 on: June 28, 2010, 05:03:22 PM »

Quote from: probep
My new MDSVSENSOR2 (bought in May 2010) looks like http://www.flickr.com/photos/miahz/3989679014/

There would be less confusion if they had just printed the "2" at the end. Pretty weird hah.
They did add the "custom calibrated for wide-gamut NEC displays" stamp though.
Logged

WombatHorror

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 299
SpectraView II matrices for wide gamut monitors?
« Reply #104 on: June 28, 2010, 05:06:22 PM »

x
« Last Edit: June 28, 2010, 05:21:50 PM by LarryBaum »
Logged

WombatHorror

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 299
SpectraView II matrices for wide gamut monitors?
« Reply #105 on: June 28, 2010, 05:08:49 PM »

Quote from: ninoloss
which device is not in the list?



from http://www.necdisplay.com/supportcenter/mo.../compatibility/

Although they also say that most of those can't be used to measure the primaries and that they also have to use the factory values for max white RGB alignment as a base point so you are doing a partial calibration (although I suppose there is a chance your particular set may have the factory reference point perhaps measured better than what the NEC puck can do and then if you have a great puck perhaps you could do better, who knows, quite possibly not though)
Logged

WombatHorror

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 299
SpectraView II matrices for wide gamut monitors?
« Reply #106 on: June 28, 2010, 05:20:08 PM »

Quote from: digitaldog
I don’t know. But what I do know is that originally the DTP94 was an expensive product to manufacturer and that was the primary reason it was canned when GMB and X-Rite became one (GMB had the EyeOne Display). That may be another reason why updating filters in an EyeOne Display-2 is the norm now. At some point, OEMs are going to balk at the costs. At what point does it not pay to do a custom upgrade when for perhaps similar money, you can get yourself a Spectrophotometer?

Supposedly NEC Europe does provide compensation for the DTP94b (as well as EIZO and Quato over there).
NEC USA said roughly along the lines of: that the had been out of production when they decided which puck to use, that the DTP94 is more expensive and they wanted to not let costs get too high (maybe they thought they were near borderline price of scaring amateurs away from the 90 and PA lines), that x-rite told them that each DTP94 revision needs it's own slightly different compensation table and that the filters are so tight in on sRGB that using a compensation table makes the instrument lose precision since they have to add such large compensation amounts externally to the puck (although then you see Quato bragging about their precision calibration system, so it's a little confusing).

Maybe the NEC puck does better than the DTP94 would do. If NEC exactingly calibrates each puck against a reference it could certainly be true on wide gamuts.
I'm curious as to whether the NEC pucks have close inter-instrument agreement and were calibrated super carefully or not (off the shelf eyeone D2 are supposed to have pretty horrid intrsument to instrument agreement). It will be interesting to how closely two NEC pucks agree (I should be able to get a chance to test that in couple weeks).
Logged

Steve Weldon

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1479
    • Bangkok Images
SpectraView II matrices for wide gamut monitors?
« Reply #107 on: June 29, 2010, 01:46:01 PM »

Quote from: LarryBaum
Sorry but it appears they have sold out.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001P3OGZG/ref=oss_product

When I first looked at it they said they had 3 left with more coming soon. When I ordered it a few days later they said they had 2 left. Now they are gone and they jacked the price ip and say 1-2 months (not exactly more coming soon hah).
Thank you.  I suspect since the wide gamuts have been out for several years these pucks will all be the right thing.

It will be interesting to compare this against the three I already have..
Logged
----------------------------------------------
http://www.BangkokImages.com

WombatHorror

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 299
SpectraView II matrices for wide gamut monitors?
« Reply #108 on: July 01, 2010, 02:25:06 AM »

Quote from: digitaldog
I’m not sure why some prevailing assumptions in this thread are that without the one colorimeter, the results are a color cast (whatever that really means). As I said here or in a similar post, my experiences testing the SpectraView with host software, using an EyeOne Display-2 versus an EyeOne Pro Spectrophotometer was a disconnect in about CCT 500K or so in target and measured white point. And considering that the values are kind of meaningless past a starting point, that you have to adjust to taste (to produce a visual match to the viewing booth), I don’t know why one would suspect that an instrument supported in the software would produce a “color cast”. Again, if you have no instrument, go for the mated colorimeter. If you have an instrument supported in the software, use it and season to taste. NEC didn’t support instruments that would fail to produce good final results.

well 500k difference is pretty easy to spot
and it might even be more so were it to be a 500K difference plus slid up or down off-set from the standard curve
Logged

Steve Weldon

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1479
    • Bangkok Images
SpectraView II matrices for wide gamut monitors?
« Reply #109 on: July 01, 2010, 12:33:33 PM »

Quote from: LarryBaum
well 500k difference is pretty easy to spot
and it might even be more so were it to be a 500K difference plus slid up or down off-set from the standard curve
Could be.. depends..

An interesting note.. I've placed an order with 4 places that listed then in stock and ready to ship over the last 48 hours.. and each place canceled the order saying they were no longer in stock and they're estimated to get a new shipment in towards the 20th of July.. NEC themselves say they no longer have any in stock.

If I was one to speculate..
Logged
----------------------------------------------
http://www.BangkokImages.com

nilo

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 397
SpectraView II matrices for wide gamut monitors?
« Reply #110 on: July 01, 2010, 01:09:08 PM »

Quote from: Steve Weldon
If I was one to speculate..

Maybe there wont be any until SpectraViewIII comes out with a new NEC custom filtered DTP94b  
Logged

WombatHorror

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 299
SpectraView II matrices for wide gamut monitors?
« Reply #111 on: July 02, 2010, 01:26:52 AM »

Quote from: Steve Weldon
Could be.. depends..

An interesting note.. I've placed an order with 4 places that listed then in stock and ready to ship over the last 48 hours.. and each place canceled the order saying they were no longer in stock and they're estimated to get a new shipment in towards the 20th of July.. NEC themselves say they no longer have any in stock.

If I was one to speculate..

.....I'd assume the PA-series is being phased out and replaced with the UA (Ultimate Awesome)-series and we have few week to few month old dinosaurs haha

ok, not likely

either they just had a run on people decided they needed to add the SVII kit (certainly possible) or yeah hmm maybe new puck?????????
Logged

WombatHorror

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 299
SpectraView II matrices for wide gamut monitors?
« Reply #112 on: July 02, 2010, 01:28:18 AM »

Quote from: Steve Weldon
Could be.. depends..

An interesting note.. I've placed an order with 4 places that listed then in stock and ready to ship over the last 48 hours.. and each place canceled the order saying they were no longer in stock and they're estimated to get a new shipment in towards the 20th of July.. NEC themselves say they no longer have any in stock.

If I was one to speculate..

speaking of 500K differences, I tried SVII with my DTP94b and the results seemed off. Using iColor 3.6 I roughly estimate that they are 500-600K off and it does look noticeably different (to me at least)
Logged

nilo

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 397
SpectraView II matrices for wide gamut monitors?
« Reply #113 on: July 02, 2010, 03:23:36 AM »

Quote from: LarryBaum
speaking of 500K differences, I tried SVII with my DTP94b and the results seemed off. Using iColor 3.6 I roughly estimate that they are 500-600K off and it does look noticeably different (to me at least)



How could this be? Is this the kind of user induced mistake that was mentioned here? Or is this the way a device is considered be "supported"?

BTW for me too, 500 K difference, with possibly an additional shift, is visually very off.
Logged

probep

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 149
SpectraView II matrices for wide gamut monitors?
« Reply #114 on: July 02, 2010, 08:18:45 AM »

Quote from: ninoloss
BTW for me too, 500 K difference, with possibly an additional shift, is visually very off.
Off-topic: Right, but the difference may be very different.
What do the guru think about such things (got from Argyll calibration)?:
Black level = 0.12 cd/m^2
White level = 120.27 cd/m^2
Aprox. gamma = 2.47
Contrast ratio = 1001:1
White chromaticity coordinates 0.2797, 0.3524
White    Correlated Color Temperature = 8001K, DE 2K to locus = 22.6
White Correlated Daylight Temperature = 7964K, DE 2K to locus = 21.8
White        Visual Color Temperature = 6558K, DE 2K to locus = 22.4
White     Visual Daylight Temperature = 6612K, DE 2K to locus = 21.5
8000 K vs 6560 K ?!
Logged

issa

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 71
SpectraView II matrices for wide gamut monitors?
« Reply #115 on: July 08, 2010, 03:19:16 PM »

I have the European NEC Spectaview 2690 Reference and it comes with Spectraview Profiler a.k.a. basICColor, there was some comments on this forum that this software has some built adj matrices for wide Gamut monitors, whilst in the US this has been dealt with in a bespoke X-rite i1Display2.

I have sdone some tests using both i1match and Spectraview Profiler a.k.a. basICColor and can confirm that I more or less get the same results, including white balance and luminance.





 













Logged
Issa

Beds, UK

WombatHorror

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 299
SpectraView II matrices for wide gamut monitors?
« Reply #116 on: July 08, 2010, 07:40:18 PM »

"QUESTION: Can I use the new MDSVSENSOR2 color sensor included in the new SVII-PRO-KIT with other 3rd party calibration applications?

ANSWER: Yes, however the custom calibration for NEC wide color gamut displays will not be available. Only the standard calibration is available."

It seems odd to me this is in the NEC faq and yet if I do try to use it on my other (standard gamut) displays using other software it gives pretty different results from either DTP94b probe.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2010, 07:40:38 PM by LarryBaum »
Logged

artobest

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 285
    • http://www.siskinpress.co.uk
SpectraView II matrices for wide gamut monitors?
« Reply #117 on: July 09, 2010, 08:30:00 AM »

I too have the European Spectraview Reference 2690, as well as a (non-NEC) i1D2. I had such problems getting neutrality with my display that I invested in a Spyder 3. That didn't work - gave me a green hue, especially in darker tones. When I contacted the BasICColor people in Germany they told me that is exactly what they would expect using that combination of colorimeter and display. Riiiight ....

After further tweaks and experimenting, I am now getting acceptable results with the i1D2. At least, the profiles validate superbly and colours are good. The important thing is my screen-to-print match is absolutely spot on.

So in a nutshell, the i1D2 works, the Spyder 3 doesn't. YMMV.

nilo

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 397
SpectraView II matrices for wide gamut monitors?
« Reply #118 on: July 09, 2010, 08:34:28 AM »

Quote from: artobest
After further tweaks and experimenting, I am now getting acceptable results with the i1D2.

Would you mind to tell us what exactly did you do?
Logged

issa

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 71
SpectraView II matrices for wide gamut monitors?
« Reply #119 on: July 09, 2010, 09:16:49 AM »

Quote from: ninoloss
Would you mind to tell us what exactly did you do?

I woukld like to understand what kind of teaks you made, also did you confirm with them whether tgheir software does wide gamut compensation? as my tests did not show any compensation v i1match software
Logged
Issa

Beds, UK
Pages: 1 ... 4 5 [6] 7   Go Up