Help resolving a "dispute".

[ucs308]

This might not be appropriate and if the moderator feels it is not then you can remove this post. But since we are a community I think this might a good time to defer to the community.

I bought the following item : http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index....showtopic=44304

The seller and I have a simple misunderstanding but since I am new to technical camera's I am not sure who is right.

In the listing the seller states : "I'm selling a like new Cambo Wide RS with the hasselblad adapter plate."

The seller is now saying that he meant - for the price I paid 2472USD including fees, the seller paid shipping - that the hasselblad plate is not included and I should have known that. His contention is that I never asked which Hasselblad Plate, so I was clearly not expecting it and the price was so low I could not have expected the plate. My position is that since I don't own a back right now I did not really care, and pricing for this stuff is all over the place.  

My last position (email) is that I feel it was his mistake and the plate should be shipped ASAP and that I reserve the right to refuse delivery of the camera and initiate a refund. But maybe I was naive. The seller has been great, except on this one point and if the collective view is that I was naive then I will accept that.

So my bad? Or should I have expected to get the plate?

Thanks Garry.

Disclaimer.. I am not looking for legal advice. I am just asking for community experience and comment.

[Christopher Sanderson]

I am replying to this as personal opinion and not in my capacity as a moderator.

To me the disagreement hangs on the word 'with', which implies that the plate was for sale with the back as a singular item.

A careful shopper would have made sure that this in fact was the intended meaning and that the price included the plate.

The disagreement now turns on a few more things: any further communication clarifying the offer and its acceptance; the 'conscience' of the seller in posting in an ambiguous manner; and finally that trump card - CAVEAT EMPTOR.

Chris

[HarperPhotos]

Hello,

It looks straight forward to me. It says "I'm selling a like new Cambo Wide RS with the hasselblad adapter plate." Then you should get a Hasselblad adapter plate.

This guy sounds dodgy.

Cheers

Simon

[Sheldon N]

To me the posted ad reads like he is selling them as a set, not as two individual pieces. I think it would depend on what wording you used when you offered to buy it and what wording he used when he agreed to sell it. Did your offer to buy it make clear (or reasonably clear to the average reader) that you were offering to buy the entire listing that he had posted? If so, then I would think it would be expected you would get it all because of how the original ad was listed.

However, if there is a genuine misunderstanding from both parties and you didn't have a "meeting of the minds" on what you were both agreeing to, then I think the gentlemanly thing to do is to return the item to him for a full refund and for you to pay return shipping. This way you both share the relatively small costs of shipping in exchange for the mutual mistake. I would be gracious on this, especially considering the cross border/cross cultural communication involved.

However if your offer to buy was explicitly clear that you wanted the whole kit as listed, then I would think that the seller should follow through on the agreement.

One final note, I would only do an exchange/refund if you really trust the seller. There's a significant risk that they would be upset about the whole issue and that an unscrupulous individual would then have the opportunity to keep both the camera and your money.

[ucs308]

OK I want to be clear.. The seller is not dodgy in the least.. and if this thread goes that way I will feel very sad for bringing it to the community and ask the moderator delete it.

just wanna be clear.

Hello,

It looks straight forward to me. It says "I'm selling a like new Cambo Wide RS with the hasselblad adapter plate." Then you should get a Hasselblad adapter plate.

This guy sound dodgy.

Cheers

Simon

[ucs308]

I did not clarify  I assumed.

I am replying to this as personal opinion and not in my capacity as a moderator.

To me the disagreement hangs on the word 'with', which implies that the plate was for sale with the back as a singular item.

A careful shopper would have made sure that this in fact was the intended meaning and that the price included the plate.

The disagreement now turns on a few more things: any further communication clarifying the offer and its acceptance; the 'conscience' of the seller in posting in an ambiguous manner; and finally that trump card - CAVEAT EMPTOR.

Chris

[PaulSchneider]

Hi guys,

I think I have to respond now since it is about my posting earlier this week in the for sale section. I'm currently in e-mail discussion with the buyer as to how resolve the dispute but he chose to get public opinion so I think I will have to explain what happened publicly as well. Also I made a generous offer to resolve everything which I retracted as I saw this post.

The point is this: First and foremost English is not my mother tongue. I write quickly and sometimes I cannot express myself clearly or unambiguously enough and English can be quit ambiguous. The fact that it is not my mother tongue can be seen from the fact that I live in Switzerland.

In my for sale posting I intended to say I'm selling this Cambo setup consisting of RS and a Hasselblad plate. I used the word "with", but didn't actually want to exclude the possibilty of selling separately, that's why I indicated the prices for both products, I wanted separate offers for both. And I expected different offers since not many technical shooters use hasselblad for various reasons (battery-issue, up until now kodak sensors).

As I gather now one can read this as the RS with the plate as a package the way I wrote it in English.

I had subsequently gotte a few PMs all but one asking what kind of plate it is - it is a H-HAsselblad plate - and one from the buyer who directly proposed a price for "the Cambo" of 2200. Since it retails for 2800 new in the US and in the many subsequent e-mails that ensued (maybe 10 back and forth in total) - the buyer never asked about the mount - that I hadn't specificed in the post - and since the buyer never mentioned the plate in alle the mails I thought that we concluded a deal only on the RS. In addition I always spoke of the Cambo RS in the mails and not of the plate. I just wanted to sell the plate separately then on ebay or something.

I was sent the money per Paypal and had gotten less than what was concluded because of the fees and even sent the package international express which cost me another 30 USD more. Just a few hours ago, 3 days after I had sent out the package, the buyer wasn't sure about what he had bought and asked my again i I included the plate we never talked about in all the mails. I said no and that's where the issue lies now.

I subsequently offered to send the plate for a really low value but I retracted that offer after seeing this public posting.

I'm too interested in knowing what you thinkg and am still surprised that I got this mail.

Regards

Paul

[AlexM]

IMO they were being sold as two separate items with two separate prices as you can see from the post.
If you needed both of them you should have made it clear to the seller.

Alex

[ucs308]

For clarity the question about what he had sent me was generated by me finding this post on GetDPI.

http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/showthread.p...highlight=cambo

Where is is explained as.

"Selling off this mint Cambo RS with original packaging and hasselblad adapter.

Willing to sell separately or as a set."

Hi guys,

I think I have to respond now since it is about my posting earlier this week in the for sale section. I'm currently in e-mail discussion with the buyer as to how resolve the dispute but he chose to get public opinion so I think I will have to explain what happened publicly as well. Also I made a generous offer to resolve everything which I retracted as I saw this post.

The point is this: First and foremost English is not my mother tongue. I write quickly and sometimes I cannot express myself clearly or unambiguously enough and English can be quit ambiguous. The fact that it is not my mother tongue can be seen from the fact that I live in Switzerland.

In my for sale posting I intended to say I'm selling this Cambo setup consisting of RS and a Hasselblad plate. I used the word "with", but didn't actually want to exclude the possibilty of selling separately, that's why I indicated the prices for both products, I wanted separate offers for both. And I expected different offers since not many technical shooters use hasselblad for various reasons (battery-issue, up until now kodak sensors).

As I gather now one can read this as the RS with the plate as a package the way I wrote it in English.

I had subsequently gotte a few PMs all but one asking what kind of plate it is - it is a H-HAsselblad plate - and one from the buyer who directly proposed a price for "the Cambo" of 2200. Since it retails for 2800 new in the US and in the many subsequent e-mails that ensued (maybe 10 back and forth in total) - the buyer never asked about the mount - that I hadn't specificed in the post - and since the buyer never mentioned the plate in alle the mails I thought that we concluded a deal only on the RS. In addition I always spoke of the Cambo RS in the mails and not of the plate. I just wanted to sell the plate separately then on ebay or something.

I was sent the money per Paypal and had gotten less than what was concluded because of the fees and even sent the package international express which cost me another 30 USD more. Just a few hours ago, 3 days after I had sent out the package, the buyer wasn't sure about what he had bought and asked my again i I included the plate we never talked about in all the mails. I said no and that's where the issue lies now.

I subsequently offered to send the plate for a really low value but I retracted that offer after seeing this public posting.

I'm too interested in knowing what you thinkg and am still surprised that I got this mail.

Regards

Paul

[ucs308]

For reference he is listing the price of each item if you buy them at retail, not the price he wants for them.

IMO they were being sold as two separate items with two separate prices as you can see from the post.
If you needed both of them you should have made it clear to the seller.

Alex

[Christopher Sanderson]

Now in my capacity as moderator, I am inclined to close this topic and ask two apparently very reasonable people to settle this 'offline'.

[PaulSchneider]

For reference he is listing the price of each item if you buy them at retail, not the price he wants for them.

Yes, but the main reason for me doing this was because I expected separate offers for both things. Also in all the e-mails that went back and forth there was never mention of the plate and since I hadn't specified which mount I had I think I could reasonably go ahead and think that you meant the body only, especially since in my eyes the price was you offered was so low that I thought you could only have meant the body alone and since it DOES make a difference if you get a H-plate or V-plate. Also I subsequently talked about the Cambo RS alone and never mentioned the plate in the many mails.

 I honestly thought there was only talk about the RS alone.