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Author Topic: LR3 drive use and Camera RAW cache?  (Read 5117 times)

Per Zangenberg

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LR3 drive use and Camera RAW cache?
« on: June 18, 2010, 12:12:59 am »

Am I the only one who have noticed increased harddrive use with LR3 over LR2? It may just be my system, but it annoys me. I have also caught LR3 writing to camera RAW Cache. Does it really need to do that seeing as I NEVER use Camera RAW?

Also how are you finding speed? I dont think it is any faster in develop using local adjustmenst, but i am liking the grain feature very much. I just did post-work from two weddings exclusively in LR3 without ever using Photoshop so I like it.

My system is:

Windows 7
Q9650 @ 3.8GHz
8GB RAM
2x RAID0 drives
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francois

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LR3 drive use and Camera RAW cache?
« Reply #1 on: June 18, 2010, 05:40:57 am »

Quote from: Per Zangenberg
…I have also caught LR3 writing to camera RAW Cache. Does it really need to do that seeing as I NEVER use Camera RAW?…
Lightroom and ACR share the same cache so it's normal that Lightroom writes and reads from the Adobe Camera Raw cache.
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Francois

Steve Weldon

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LR3 drive use and Camera RAW cache?
« Reply #2 on: June 18, 2010, 06:03:54 am »

Quote from: francois
Lightroom and ACR share the same cache so it's normal that Lightroom writes and reads from the Adobe Camera Raw cache.
Not really.  Lightroom only uses previews and indexes until you export.  If you export/edit an image from LR to CS.. and it's a raw image, and you tell it to export a copy with LR adjustments.. then it opens the image in ACR on its way to CS and applies those adjustments.  The cache remains all ACR..
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Greg Barnett

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LR3 drive use and Camera RAW cache?
« Reply #3 on: June 18, 2010, 10:53:34 am »

LR and CR do share the camera raw cache. LR uses it when you are in Develop.
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francois

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LR3 drive use and Camera RAW cache?
« Reply #4 on: June 18, 2010, 11:33:42 am »

Quote from: Steve Weldon
Not really.  Lightroom only uses previews and indexes until you export.  If you export/edit an image from LR to CS.. and it's a raw image, and you tell it to export a copy with LR adjustments.. then it opens the image in ACR on its way to CS and applies those adjustments.  The cache remains all ACR..
On my Mac, Lightroom writes to the ACR cache even if Photoshop isn't invoked and no export from Lightroom is done. Going to Develop is enough to write to the ACR cache.
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Francois

Per Zangenberg

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LR3 drive use and Camera RAW cache?
« Reply #5 on: June 18, 2010, 12:40:03 pm »

Ok, normal behavior then I suppose. Any comments on performance of LR3 vs LR2?
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Steve Weldon

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LR3 drive use and Camera RAW cache?
« Reply #6 on: June 18, 2010, 12:46:10 pm »

Quote from: francois
On my Mac, Lightroom writes to the ACR cache even if Photoshop isn't invoked and no export from Lightroom is done. Going to Develop is enough to write to the ACR cache.
I've just been investigating this for an unrelated reason and 'think' there are some interesting observations.

First, LR for me is my main RAW converter with C1pro for the finer work.  I don't use ACR as a rule.

I've always kept my LR indexes and previews on a drive separate from my system/programs drive.  Recently on my desktop workstation I put them on their own drive for the luxury of speed with excellent results.  I built 1:1 previews for my entire catalog and moving between any folder/collection and zooming in on any image is now instant..

I've also always had the .xmp side car files enabled in LR.

So.. I have the default ACR cache on my system drive in the default location.  And a LR3 cache on a separate drive.

I'm using LR3 and CS5 with the latest ACR 6.1 update.


My observations:

If I open an image previously imported into LR in ACR.. it uses the LR cache.  I didn't realize this when I made my previous post.. my apologies.  

If I open a 'virgin' image, say off a flash card or external drive or any image not already imported by LR.. into ACR.. it uses the default ACR cache.

Thinking about it.. it would make sense they've both have separate caches.  This would be the same even if using the default LR3 and CS5 cache locations because they are different.

What isn't intuitive.. a nice way of saying it doesn't make 'immediate' sense.. is that the first .xmp side car file assigned then determines which cache it uses.  Thinking about it more in-depth it does make sense.. making the .xmp smart enough to know which .xmp capable control program you're using to view that image and the cache locations would probably be difficult.


Secondary observations:

And I'm still not sure about this.. but it's where I'm at, at this point in time.  I recently upgraded my monitors to a pair that offered sRGB emulation.  Before this my system was set up to import in Adobe98 and more recently Prophoto.  All my archive images were processed for the old monitors and these two different color spaces.  With the new monitors in sRGB Emulation mode.. they all looked way off.  Also, even if I reset that image and started over.. it took a lot of work to get the colors right.  With the old monitors in the old color space these adjustments were slight if any and easy.

Keep in mind I've upgraded from CS3, CS4, CS5, LR1, LR2, LR3 on the same system build.

My observations.. as I rarely use ACR.. and by rarely I'd say every few months at the most.. I opened it tonight, set ACR to 16bit, sRGB, and under camera controls to Camera Standard vs. Camera Adone.  Saved it.  Opened up LR and now all my previous images are much closer than before, only a slight adjustment is needed to bring them into line with the new sRGB monitors.. and if I reset them.. they're as easy to adjust as they were with the previous monitors.

This tells me LR3's engine.. is using or looking at the ACR engine for its default settings.  Or at least 1 or more of the 3 settings I adjusted.

Or maybe I'm wrong and seeing things.  This has always been the Bermuda Triangle of color management settings.. never explained, rarely documented, and never talked about..

Of course if I'd wiped my build and started over from scratch.. like I often recommend others to do when having issues.. everything would have probably lined up as I installed each program providing I'd installed SVII and selected my color modes prior to installing applications.  Still, I like learning how this stuff works.. or at least that nice confused feeling you get when working with Adobe color management settings..
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Richowens

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LR3 drive use and Camera RAW cache?
« Reply #7 on: June 18, 2010, 02:56:31 pm »


    On my machine, Win7-64, I have CS5 with ACR6.1, LR 2.7 and LR3 installed. All three programs use the same Camera Raw Cache.
There is no seperate cache for seperate programs. In the dialogue where you can set the size of the cache they each point to the same folder
on the hard drive.

  Rich
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Per Zangenberg

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LR3 drive use and Camera RAW cache?
« Reply #8 on: June 18, 2010, 03:59:17 pm »

But what is the cache used for? LR still stores previews in the my pictures folder. Or are these only from previews from LR2 that was converted over?
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Schewe

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LR3 drive use and Camera RAW cache?
« Reply #9 on: June 18, 2010, 10:07:02 pm »

Quote from: Per Zangenberg
But what is the cache used for?

The ACR cache has nothing to do with Lightroom "previews", the ACR cache is used to speed up loading and access to raw image data in the Develop module as well as in Camera Raw. Both need to load the entire raw image in order to be able to make accurate image adjustments. If an image is in cache, loading the cached image will be a lot faster than an uncached image. So, if you are working a lot on a series of images and go back and forth between those images, the cache will speed that. If you only load an image once in Develop or Camera Raw, the cache won't help (but it won't hurt as long as you have the drive space).

As far as LR previews, the previews of images are used everywhere else that images show up other than Develop.
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Per Zangenberg

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LR3 drive use and Camera RAW cache?
« Reply #10 on: June 19, 2010, 12:41:40 am »

Quote from: Schewe
The ACR cache has nothing to do with Lightroom "previews", the ACR cache is used to speed up loading and access to raw image data in the Develop module as well as in Camera Raw. Both need to load the entire raw image in order to be able to make accurate image adjustments. If an image is in cache, loading the cached image will be a lot faster than an uncached image. So, if you are working a lot on a series of images and go back and forth between those images, the cache will speed that. If you only load an image once in Develop or Camera Raw, the cache won't help (but it won't hurt as long as you have the drive space).

As far as LR previews, the previews of images are used everywhere else that images show up other than Develop.

Ok, I work mainly in develop, so I never pre-render previews.
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Steve Weldon

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LR3 drive use and Camera RAW cache?
« Reply #11 on: June 19, 2010, 02:38:13 am »

Quote from: Schewe
The ACR cache has nothing to do with Lightroom "previews", the ACR cache is used to speed up loading and access to raw image data in the Develop module as well as in Camera Raw.

As far as LR previews, the previews of images are used everywhere else that images show up other than Develop.

From what I'm seeing.. LR and ACR both use a cache and if installed on the same machine one uses the settings (cache size) from the other.  If you move your LR folder (indexes/previews) to alternate location.. then it creates its own cache in that location.. which it will share with ACR if ACR is pulling up an image previously imported by LR.  And the cache is located in the LR previews folder.  Attachment provided.

Maybe I've got this mixed up somehow?

The other part I find interesting too.  Are you saying that in the Develop module you're working on the actual image vs. a preview?  If this is the case it will influence my selection of preview size.
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