Printing out of CS5 Problem Outside of Printable Area

[na goodman]

Seems like it could be. But then it would require somebody at X-Rite to care enough to look into it.  

Howeverbutt, it does not address why the i1 profile is so much smaller than the Epson factory profile.  I can only assume that i1 Match has some kind of profile limit imposed by the current (and like 5 years old now) 2-page target.  IOW even if they fixed the rendering issue, they also need a revised, broader gamut target that actually exceeds the bounds of current printers. And of course that is going to be a lot more than a one person, one day job...

Ok, to be fair, I have always had very good luck with Xrite. I do understand what you are saying but they have always been very responsive to me and I do have a contact there, maybe that helps. I agree, I really don't like the iMatch software and was sent a demo dongle for PM5. But, since that software is to updated this year I didn't want to invest in anything right now. The profile was made using Bill Atkinsons 1728 patch target. Here's the odd thing, I printed targets out for someone to read that has an isis. I really was just being curious in the different hardware. But, the target I printed and read had a much larger gamut than the isis. So, I'm confused about that also. So, as someone stated, I'll book the day for my call to Xrite. But, doesn't downgrading the laptop sound the quickest and easiest solution. I really only use the laptop to drive the printer and use it out in the field when I'm working.

[Jack Flesher]

But, doesn't downgrading the laptop sound the quickest and easiest solution. I really only use the laptop to drive the printer and use it out in the field when I'm working.

Yes, it's probably the quickest and easiest solution, and I doubt you'll be losing any gamut on the Epson x800 printers.  The i1 target part is possibly an additional issue for wider gamut printers though, and why I mentioned it.  

It will be great to hear what you find out from your contact at XRite, so PLEASE report back!

[digitaldog]

It seems as though OSX>Epson is treating an i1 profile as an absolute colorimetric profile regardless of how you print with it.

You have CS4 or earlier? Use Convert to Profile, pick Relcol (or Perceptual), print with no color management in the print dialog (not an option in CS5). You should see the paper white undergo a change using Convert to Profile too (assuming the paper issue is applied by an Absolute Colorimetric intent). If you toggle the various rendering intents in Convert to Profile and see this paper white issue, its in the profile.

[na goodman]

You have CS4 or earlier? Use Convert to Profile, pick Relcol (or Perceptual), print with no color management in the print dialog (not an option in CS5). You should see the paper white undergo a change using Convert to Profile too (assuming the paper issue is applied by an Absolute Colorimetric intent). If you toggle the various rendering intents in Convert to Profile and see this paper white issue, its in the profile.

I do have CS4 and 3. So, I'll try that. The whole thing is giving me headache! So Andrew, I haven't printed yet but I have one other question. Am I converting to the printer profile I made want to use? And also as I toggled the various rendering intents in Convert to Profile there are differences in the image but, you cannot see the specific faint blue outside of the printed area that I am talking about. When I do toggle on Absolute - the image turns really yellow which is probably compensating for the OBA's right? It seems like it is the i1Pro, i1 Match and Snow Leopard.

[na goodman]

Yes, it's probably the quickest and easiest solution, and I doubt you'll be losing any gamut on the Epson x800 printers.  The i1 target part is possibly an additional issue for wider gamut printers though, and why I mentioned it.  

It will be great to hear what you find out from your contact at XRite, so PLEASE report back!

I'll for sure report back after I talk with them and thank you for your time and input.

[na goodman]

Unfortunately, this won't help -- it prints that cyan/gray on any section of printable paper white.  So if you have any paper-white specular highlights in your image, they will get this fine dot pattern too (yes, I confirmed that via a test print).  The only workaround I can think of with the i1 is to print borderless and pull your print whites down to something like 253 gray. You might want to try a profile built with different software.  Next thought is that before you go that route, you may want to send your spectro in for a recert.  I think they charge about $300 for this.  

Fortunately for me, I'm now on the 7900 and the Epson canned profiles for it are excellent -- good enough I have no desire for anything different.  Unfortunately for you, I cannot say the same about their x800 profiles back when I had my 7800 and 3800... Another interesting sidebar factoid: I pulled my i1 profiles into Colorsync and compared them directly to their Epson counterpart -- in all cases the Epson profile was physically larger, and in all cases the very tip of the i1 profile did NOT hit pure white on the 3D model. Which would support my suspicion that Colorsync is reading them as Absolute Colorimetric profiles.

Couple other thoughts...  If I had an x800 printer, I would probably set up a cheap print server. Any older Mac running Leopard or even an el-cheapo PC laptop running XP or higher that can be networked.  Just a thought and it would be easy to set up and cheap.  Alternatively, you could try running XP or higher under Parallels or Fusion on your existing Macs and print from that. I have not tried that, but suspect it would work fine.

Oh and Jack I did pull it into Colorsync and you are right with that little factoid: I also do NOT hit pure white on the 3D model. In fact, it's not even close. I have a headache!

[na goodman]

Ok, a light bulb just went off. I went back and opened up Colorsync and went through all my profiles. The only ones that are not reaching white point in the 3D model are the "coated" canvas profiles. I have one canvas profile that is uncoated and that profile has a much smaller gamut but, it reaches white point. So, is it the coating? It looks like it may be. Maybe I should make a new profile uncoated. No, I just proved that theory wrong so ignore the above post. I used to have the pulse and any profile made with that reaches white point. Any new profiles made with the i1Pro, iMatch and 10.6.3 do not. This is depressing. I couldn't use the pulse any more because of the OS. What a vicious circle I'm stuck in.

[na goodman]

Ok. here's an update on the situation. Yes, the faint blue border outside printable area is a compatibility issue between adobe, imatch, and 10.6.3. Safest bet is to print out of CS3. Fine, I still have that on the MacBook Pro. But, while waiting for Xrite to look at he profiles I decided to run i1 Diagnostics. The emission test failed on both the laptop and the MacPro. So, I sent those log files off and it looks like I have a lamp issue and that is probably why I can't reach maximum white point. Fortunately for me the i1 is still under warranty so they are sending me an RMA. Yes, it took a few phone calls and lots of emails but I think it has been resolved and I'll send it in for repair. I did ask moving forward if they were addressing all of the compatibility issues but I have not gotten a response on that. Really, Xrite has always been a very responsive company for me to deal with. I know others may have had different experiences but they have always bent over backwards for me to resolve any issues.

[Ernst Dinkla]

Ok. here's an update on the situation. Yes, the faint blue border outside printable area is a compatibility issue between adobe, imatch, and 10.6.3. Safest bet is to print out of CS3. Fine, I still have that on the MacBook Pro. But, while waiting for Xrite to look at he profiles I decided to run i1 Diagnostics. The emission test failed on both the laptop and the MacPro. So, I sent those log files off and it looks like I have a lamp issue and that is probably why I can't reach maximum white point. Fortunately for me the i1 is still under warranty so they are sending me an RMA.

There still are good arguments for finding a standard white reflection reference object for everyone. This thread is another example. The plumber's 2$ white Teflon roll on a white core is a possibility. The 80$ BabelColor's Watch your White another one. A white reference object to define the deviations between all the spectro- colorimeters around. The spectrometers we base threads like this one on.

This can not be compared with the calibration tile  of the spectrometer itself. If that one is measured after calibration it will deliver the factory's Lab calibration numbers, often enough also when the instrument is not working properly.


met vriendelijke groeten, Ernst Dinkla

spectral plots of +100 inkjet papers:
http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm