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Author Topic: Thoughts on location re-shoot?  (Read 2413 times)

SJ.Butel

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Thoughts on location re-shoot?
« on: May 20, 2010, 11:02:12 pm »

Hey,

Well first off I'll just say a huge thanks to all the people who contribute to this site.  I have been visiting and reading (bout 3/4 years now total) since when i was still in college (or high school as it's called in the states) and it has helped me as a photographer more than any teacher/work shops/classes i have ever taken.  I don't just mean the articles on the main website either, a lot of the every day posters have influenced me and i follow many of the blogs from people on this site.

I thought i might as well start posting now because of how much i can learn from you all (if your willing to throw me some scraps that is )  and now i think i can really understand where your all coming from.
This weekend i am heading back to a location i have scouted which i thought had a lot of potential.  When i first visited i had my walk around lens and was mainly just having a look and hoping to get something.

See the image i'm hoping to get is of an opposite mountain which has interesting rock formations which catch low light so that it shades the hills in an interesting way which i think will work great in b&w.  The mountains behind feel distant but really add something I think.


The first image is a heavy crop i took at 105mm from about half way up and gives you a small idea on what i'm after.  I am not happy with how the lower bit looks and i think i was about 20 mins to late to view the scene.
[attachment=22091:IMG_1683_2.jpg]


About 1 1/2 hours up from the previous spot is where the second picture is taken (the light was not so good), you can see the hills from the previous image at the bottom.  Now seen this location is a decent distance from where I'm staying, I'm hoping to get the best shot i can in one attempt.  
[attachment=22092:IMG_1687.jpg]

What are your thoughts on which of the above two images will look best when the angle of the sun is a bit higher than in the first image?

I'm not sure if i go higher up if the shadows will look as good on the bottom image because the raised rock pillars wont stand out any where near as well.  Is it about the shape of the closer mountains or something more i guess i have to ask myself.
At the same time, the mountains from behind show another layer and might add to the image..

Obviously i don't have time to go to both locations so I thought i would ask advice from wiser heads.  I'll be lugging more gear up this time and am hoping to make a pano with my 400mm.

Thoughts?
« Last Edit: June 03, 2010, 10:11:51 pm by SteveButel »
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wolfnowl

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Thoughts on location re-shoot?
« Reply #1 on: May 21, 2010, 12:42:50 am »

Well, this isn't going to help you much, but I think both locations have good potential.  I like the first image, although in Lightroom I'd increase the Fill Light as there's too much black.  The second image you left in colour so it's not a fair comparison in that regard, but while the background mountains of both images are similar, the middle ground is quite different.  In B&W I think either could work.

Mike.

P.S.  Welcome to the list!
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SJ.Butel

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Thoughts on location re-shoot?
« Reply #2 on: May 21, 2010, 01:22:45 am »

Quote from: wolfnowl
Well, this isn't going to help you much, but I think both locations have good potential.  I like the first image, although in Lightroom I'd increase the Fill Light as there's too much black.  The second image you left in colour so it's not a fair comparison in that regard, but while the background mountains of both images are similar, the middle ground is quite different.  In B&W I think either could work.

Mike.

P.S.  Welcome to the list!
Thanks Wolfnowl for your thoughts, it has helped.  Ya lol, funny you should say add fill light because i actually boasted blacks (to try and show shape in this case i think) as i find myself doing with my B&W lately.  I guess it's a fad i picked up recently like how some choose to way over do their HDR.  I was not sure how others felt about that but it's good to have another opinion to think about.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2010, 01:22:56 am by SteveButel »
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jule

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Thoughts on location re-shoot?
« Reply #3 on: May 21, 2010, 01:59:14 am »

Thanks Steve for your images and this opportunity.

Firstly I would like to share with you a few things I have learnt over the years.

I noticed in your explanation of the images there was a deal of comment about how long it took to hike, and how far you had to lug your equipment.... how much effort it took to get to the location you were photographing. I realise you were prpbably telling us this because you had to make a decision about where to go to get photographs, but just make sure that you don't get a misguided idea that the more difficult it is to get to a location , the better the images will be.

Secondly, Predicting what the light will be like 30 minutes earlier in a location is like asking how long is a piece of string. All you need is the cloud to be different or the atmosphere to be different, and presto - the lighting is different. Only people who live in that location can even come clost to helping you with how the light will be different 30 minutes earlier at a particular time of year, and even that is a big ask of them.

Thirdly...now this one may be controversial...but as a beginner as you mentioned, I would recommend that you do not go to any location for a couple of years with a preconcieved idea of what you are looking for in your photograph. I would suggest to be more spontaneous and just enjoy the location you choose and let the land speak to you. Get your head out of the way and listen to the colours of mountains and sky. Tune in and develop your observational and receptive skills before you start determining exactly how you want things to look. Your vision may actually be far less and limiting, than what may happen if you are there enjoying and immersing yourself in the act of photography. Learn to be open to exploring possibilities rather than focussing your mind on creating the idea that you have preconceived in your mind.

In light of what I have just said...just pick one location ... rock, paper scissors with a friend......and enjoy taking photographs!!

Julie
« Last Edit: May 21, 2010, 02:05:26 am by jule »
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SJ.Butel

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Thoughts on location re-shoot?
« Reply #4 on: May 21, 2010, 02:21:25 am »

Quote from: jule
Thanks Steve for your images and this opportunity.

Firstly I would like to share with you a few things I have learnt over the years.

I noticed in your explanation of the images there was a deal of comment about how long it took to hike, and how far you had to lug your equipment.... how much effort it took to get to the location you were photographing. I realise you were prpbably telling us this because you had to make a decision about where to go to get photographs, but just make sure that you don't get a misguided idea that the more difficult it is to get to a location , the better the images will be.

Secondly, Predicting what the light will be like 30 minutes earlier in a location is like asking how long is a piece of string. All you need is the cloud to be different or the atmosphere to be different, and presto - the lighting is different. Only people who live in that location can even come clost to helping you with how the light will be different 30 minutes earlier at a particular time of year, and even that is a big ask of them.

Thirdly...now this one may be controversial...but as a beginner as you mentioned, I would recommend that you do not go to any location for a couple of years with a preconcieved idea of what you are looking for in your photograph. I would suggest to be more spontaneous and just enjoy the location you choose and let the land speak to you. Get your head out of the way and listen to the colours of mountains and sky. Tune in and develop your observational and receptive skills before you start determining exactly how you want things to look. Your vision may actually be far less and limiting, than what may happen if you are there enjoying and immersing yourself in the act of photography. Learn to be open to exploring possibilities rather than focussing your mind on creating the idea that you have preconceived in your mind.

In light of what I have just said...just pick one location ... rock, paper scissors with a friend......and enjoy taking photographs!!

Julie
Thank you, i am glad i took the time to post.  You have given me a lot to think about and i see how right you are on many levels.  Ya, i did mention the time it took purely to try and explain why i don't just return the next day and shoot both locations.  I did just now remove some of the excess, 3 hours to here etc rubbish however

When i posted I was thinking about what would be the best way to learn as much as i could from members here,  so went with the idea of asking others how they would handle my shoot.  I do see what you mean about light though and also see that i have a long way to go.  Thank you again for helping me get further down that road.

I will post back with the results and see what happens later this weekend.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2010, 02:31:01 am by SteveButel »
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jule

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Thoughts on location re-shoot?
« Reply #5 on: May 21, 2010, 03:13:33 am »

Quote from: SteveButel
Thank you, i am glad i took the time to post.  You have given me a lot to think about and i see how right you are on many levels.  Ya, i did mention the time it took purely to try and explain why i don't just return the next day and shoot both locations.  I did just now remove some of the excess, 3 hours to here etc rubbish however

When i posted I was thinking about what would be the best way to learn as much as i could from members here,  so went with the idea of asking others how they would handle my shoot.  I do see what you mean about light though and also see that i have a long way to go.  Thank you again for helping me get further down that road.

I will post back with the results and see what happens later this weekend.
Hey Steve..I didn't suggest there was anything wrong with you mentioning how long it took to get to a place, and clarified by saying i'm sure your intention was to explain the logistics of each location..and there was no need to remove that information from your first post. I only expressed to you as a beginner, to be aware of not thinking that the harder it is to get to a location, the better the photos will be, that's all.

Have a great, fun,  week-end.

Julie
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John R Smith

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Thoughts on location re-shoot?
« Reply #6 on: May 21, 2010, 03:40:45 am »

Quote from: jule
Hey Steve..I didn't suggest there was anything wrong with you mentioning how long it took to get to a place, and clarified by saying i'm sure your intention was to explain the logistics of each location..and there was no need to remove that information from your first post. I only expressed to you as a beginner, to be aware of not thinking that the harder it is to get to a location, the better the photos will be, that's all.

Have a great, fun,  week-end.

Julie

It is useful to remember that Ansel, in his early days, would spend days or weeks on the trail in the mountains. But in his later years he got some of his best pictures by parking the car and setting up his tripod on the roof of his station wagon.

John
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SJ.Butel

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Thoughts on location re-shoot?
« Reply #7 on: June 03, 2010, 10:11:12 pm »

Well I went up on the previously mentioned day but unforunatly some low cloud on the hills blocked the sun for 3/4 of an hour.     I dropped my quick release plate somewhere on the way up so i went back again on sunday, same thing.  Anyway I was passing again yesterday and put the afternoon aside to head up for another try.

I choose to go higher up this time but i'm not sure if the photo has enough focus any more.   Anyone care to comment?

My monitor is not calibrated but I put backs to 14 in the first one, Wolfnowl, what do you think of where the black point is in this one, overdone?

I like how the shadow shapes the hills and is the reason for me increasing it quite high.  Though the sun has moved since my first one so the effect is a little different.




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Ed Blagden

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Thoughts on location re-shoot?
« Reply #8 on: June 04, 2010, 02:53:10 am »

Quote from: SteveButel
Well I went up on the previously mentioned day but unforunatly some low cloud on the hills blocked the sun for 3/4 of an hour.     I dropped my quick release plate somewhere on the way up so i went back again on sunday, same thing.  Anyway I was passing again yesterday and put the afternoon aside to head up for another try.

I choose to go higher up this time but i'm not sure if the photo has enough focus any more.   Anyone care to comment?

My monitor is not calibrated but I put backs to 14 in the first one, Wolfnowl, what do you think of where the black point is in this one, overdone?

I like how the shadow shapes the hills and is the reason for me increasing it quite high.  Though the sun has moved since my first one so the effect is a little different.

Steve,

I quite like the second one because the framing is a bit tighter (longer focal length) though it is a shame the low cloud is missing.  

You asked about post processing.  Using the black point slider to adjust overall image contrast is a bit of a blunt instrument.  We all have our own work-flow but I would suggest that you use the BP adjustment so that the image is only just beginning to clip.  You can then adjust contrast using the contrast slider, or better still, by tweaking the tone curve.

Since you are doing B&W, the other thing you can try (if you are not doing so already) is to adjust the individual colour luminance channels.  For example for an image like this reducing blue luminance and boosting reds and oranges would replicate the effect of a red filter and would give you much finer control of the interplay of shadow and light.

You may know all this already, in which case apologies for trying to teach my grandmother to suck eggs!

Cheers,



Ed


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SJ.Butel

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Thoughts on location re-shoot?
« Reply #9 on: June 04, 2010, 06:36:45 am »

Quote from: Ed Blagden
Steve,

I quite like the second one because the framing is a bit tighter (longer focal length) though it is a shame the low cloud is missing.  

You asked about post processing.  Using the black point slider to adjust overall image contrast is a bit of a blunt instrument.  We all have our own work-flow but I would suggest that you use the BP adjustment so that the image is only just beginning to clip.  You can then adjust contrast using the contrast slider, or better still, by tweaking the tone curve.

Since you are doing B&W, the other thing you can try (if you are not doing so already) is to adjust the individual colour luminance channels.  For example for an image like this reducing blue luminance and boosting reds and oranges would replicate the effect of a red filter and would give you much finer control of the interplay of shadow and light.

You may know all this already, in which case apologies for trying to teach my grandmother to suck eggs!

Cheers,

Ed
Yes i see what you mean about trying to do to much with the blacks slider... not sure where i picked that up.  Hmm, i remember watching a video on adobe tv about uisng the red,blue channels in B&W but never properly put it into practice.  Been playing round with some images now for about 15 minutes following your advice and I see that it is a much better way to get to where i want the image to be.  Thanks for the help!
« Last Edit: June 04, 2010, 06:37:34 am by SteveButel »
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Ed Blagden

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Thoughts on location re-shoot?
« Reply #10 on: June 04, 2010, 07:58:43 am »

Quote from: SteveButel
Yes i see what you mean about trying to do to much with the blacks slider... not sure where i picked that up.  Hmm, i remember watching a video on adobe tv about uisng the red,blue channels in B&W but never properly put it into practice.  Been playing round with some images now for about 15 minutes following your advice and I see that it is a much better way to get to where i want the image to be.  Thanks for the help!
No problem.

You might want to download Michael's tutorial video on Lightroom 2 - I don't think it has much in the way of specifics on B&W, but it is a very good in depth guide to the whole work-flow and functionality.  Also, the Lightroom Killer Tips website has some good "how-to" videos, plus a cornucopia of presets including some quite good B&W ones.

Ed
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