Epson 3880 scratching Gold Fibre Silk

[robgo2]

I am seeing very thin linear scratches only with 17x22 inch GFS paper.  Strangely, the scratches seem to heal themselves after 12-24 hours.  Has anyone else noted this phenomenon?  I have the platen gap set at "Wider" and the paper thickness at 5.

Also, are there any other good semigloss/luster papers that are less prone to scratching?

Rob

[David Good]

Rob,

If the marks are in the same direction as the paper travels it is likely the "star wheels" that pull the paper along. Eric has some info and an alternate solution here:

http://people.csail.mit.edu/ericchan/dp/Ep...eels_workaround

FYI: I am using an F-type paper with a similar weight and using a platen gap setting of 4 and Wide.

Dave

[robgo2]

Rob,

If the marks are in the same direction as the paper travels it is likely the "star wheels" that pull the paper along. Eric has some info and an alternate solution here:

http://people.csail.mit.edu/ericchan/dp/Ep...eels_workaround

FYI: I am using an F-type paper with a similar weight and using a platen gap setting of 4 and Wide.

Dave

No, those are not the marks that I am seeing on my prints.  They are rather long, straight scratches parallel to the direction of the paper travel.  Fortunately, if I let the paper set for 12-24 hours, they largely heal themselves.  I can then gently rub them out with a gloved finger.  Still, I would like to avoid them entirely, if possible.

Rob

[AaronPhotog]

No, those are not the marks that I am seeing on my prints.  They are rather long, straight scratches parallel to the direction of the paper travel.  Fortunately, if I let the paper set for 12-24 hours, they largely heal themselves.  I can then gently rub them out with a gloved finger.  Still, I would like to avoid them entirely, if possible.

Rob

Rob,

In some previous posts, I discussed the problem I was having with large sheets of Harman Gloss Al.  It was doing exactly what you describe.  By watching the paper as it came out of the platen, I discovered that the paper was curling in an elongated "M" shape as it went through the printer after the ink had wet the top side.  The tops of the "M" shaped waves were scraping something on the way out.

The solution was to gently wet the backs of the larger sheets (using a little spray bottle and some folded paper towel to soak up any drops and even out the moisture - being careful not to get it on the front) and allowing them to dry enough such that they had only about 1/4" or less of the opposite curl when I loaded them into the printer.

As the sheet travels through, the slightly damp back counters the tendency of the paper to curl when the ink hits the front.  After adopting this practice with my 3800, there are no more scratches.  It takes a little time, but it works.  Smaller sizes do not have this problem as long as they are carefully flattened before loading them in the sheet feeder.  A friend who has a 3880 does not have any scratching problems with his large Harman Al prints, so I think Epson did some improvements.

Give it a try.  Can't hurt.

Aloha,

Aaron

[Gemmtech]

I have not had this problem with my 3880, the only issue I've had which was easily corrected was the skewed margins because I didn't have the alignment guide set out.  I've had no scratches in any direction.

[Alan Goldhammer]

I have not had this problem with my 3880, the only issue I've had which was easily corrected was the skewed margins because I didn't have the alignment guide set out.  I've had no scratches in any direction.

+1 on this as well, though I only print on Ilford GFS and Museo Silver Rag for glossy paper.  The remainder of my printing is on matte papers which don't present the same issues as the glossy papers.

Alan

[robgo2]

Rob,

In some previous posts, I discussed the problem I was having with large sheets of Harman Gloss Al.  It was doing exactly what you describe.  By watching the paper as it came out of the platen, I discovered that the paper was curling in an elongated "M" shape as it went through the printer after the ink had wet the top side.  The tops of the "M" shaped waves were scraping something on the way out.

The solution was to gently wet the backs of the larger sheets (using a little spray bottle and some folded paper towel to soak up any drops and even out the moisture - being careful not to get it on the front) and allowing them to dry enough such that they had only about 1/4" or less of the opposite curl when I loaded them into the printer.

As the sheet travels through, the slightly damp back counters the tendency of the paper to curl when the ink hits the front.  After adopting this practice with my 3800, there are no more scratches.  It takes a little time, but it works.  Smaller sizes do not have this problem as long as they are carefully flattened before loading them in the sheet feeder.  A friend who has a 3880 does not have any scratching problems with his large Harman Al prints, so I think Epson did some improvements.

Give it a try.  Can't hurt.

Aloha,

Aaron

Aaron, thanks for the tips.  It does seem like quite a bother, but I will give it a try.

I am also seeking an alternate paper that may be less prone to this type of scratching.  I have read very favorable reports about Canson Infinity Baryta, which is said to be similar to GFS, which I like, but which also has a baryta surface that is prone to scratching.  Still, it is possible that the paper will not curve as much as it passes through the printer.  Any other paper suggestions?

Rob

[AaronPhotog]

Aaron, thanks for the tips.  It does seem like quite a bother, but I will give it a try.

I am also seeking an alternate paper that may be less prone to this type of scratching.  I have read very favorable reports about Canson Infinity Baryta, which is said to be similar to GFS, which I like, but which also has a baryta surface that is prone to scratching.  Still, it is possible that the paper will not curve as much as it passes through the printer.  Any other paper suggestions?

Rob

Rob,

I'm going to be testing smaller sheets of the Canson Infinity Baryta soon to add to a series of paper tests for ink receptivity, my primary criteria.  I have some sheets of 8-1/2" x 11" size, but I haven't yet gotten the larger size.  Yes, it has an appearance that is similar to Gold Fiber Silk.

I think any paper that is made as a sandwich of paper backing and a top layer that can shrink and expand with changes of moisture content is going to curl, even with changes in humidity much less wet ink hitting the surface.  A small test print of Harman Gloss Al about an inch wide by four inches long curled into a complete circle by itself when the relative humidity increased during a rainstorm.  As soon as the air dried out, the print flattened back down.  Something made of plastic would have stayed flat.

That said, I like the look of the Baryta papers.  Harman Gloss Al, despite its false advertising claim about resisting curling, is my favorite so far, so I'm willing to put up with the bother of wetting the backs of the 17" wide sheets.  Smaller sheet sizes seem to have the grain going 90 degrees from the larger sizes, so the curl is lengthwise with small sheets, and crosswise with the large sheets.  It may be that my friend's 3880 and yours are less likely than my 3800 to scratch large sheets, but he lives here in Hawaii, where the humidity is possibly higher to begin with than wherever you may have your printer.  Therefore, the curling when the ink hits the paper in your machine may be more drastic than it would be at my friend's place.  A humidifier might help.

Aloha, and good luck,

Aaron

[robgo2]

Rob,

I'm going to be testing smaller sheets of the Canson Infinity Baryta soon to add to a series of paper tests for ink receptivity, my primary criteria.  I have some sheets of 8-1/2" x 11" size, but I haven't yet gotten the larger size.  Yes, it has an appearance that is similar to Gold Fiber Silk.

I think any paper that is made as a sandwich of paper backing and a top layer that can shrink and expand with changes of moisture content is going to curl, even with changes in humidity much less wet ink hitting the surface.  A small test print of Harman Gloss Al about an inch wide by four inches long curled into a complete circle by itself when the relative humidity increased during a rainstorm.  As soon as the air dried out, the print flattened back down.  Something made of plastic would have stayed flat.

That said, I like the look of the Baryta papers.  Harman Gloss Al, despite its false advertising claim about resisting curling, is my favorite so far, so I'm willing to put up with the bother of wetting the backs of the 17" wide sheets.  Smaller sheet sizes seem to have the grain going 90 degrees from the larger sizes, so the curl is lengthwise with small sheets, and crosswise with the large sheets.  It may be that my friend's 3880 and yours are less likely than my 3800 to scratch large sheets, but he lives here in Hawaii, where the humidity is possibly higher to begin with than wherever you may have your printer.  Therefore, the curling when the ink hits the paper in your machine may be more drastic than it would be at my friend's place.  A humidifier might help.

Aloha, and good luck,

Aaron

Aaron,

Do you think that increasing the "Drying Time per Print Head Pass" might affect the paper curling?

Rob

[AaronPhotog]

Aaron,

Do you think that increasing the "Drying Time per Print Head Pass" might affect the paper curling?

Rob

Rob,

It didn't work for me, nor did increasing the platen gap.

Aloha,
Aaron

[robgo2]

Rob,

In some previous posts, I discussed the problem I was having with large sheets of Harman Gloss Al.  It was doing exactly what you describe.  By watching the paper as it came out of the platen, I discovered that the paper was curling in an elongated "M" shape as it went through the printer after the ink had wet the top side.  The tops of the "M" shaped waves were scraping something on the way out.

The solution was to gently wet the backs of the larger sheets (using a little spray bottle and some folded paper towel to soak up any drops and even out the moisture - being careful not to get it on the front) and allowing them to dry enough such that they had only about 1/4" or less of the opposite curl when I loaded them into the printer.

As the sheet travels through, the slightly damp back counters the tendency of the paper to curl when the ink hits the front.  After adopting this practice with my 3800, there are no more scratches.  It takes a little time, but it works.  Smaller sizes do not have this problem as long as they are carefully flattened before loading them in the sheet feeder.  A friend who has a 3880 does not have any scratching problems with his large Harman Al prints, so I think Epson did some improvements.

Give it a try.  Can't hurt.

Aloha,

Aaron

Aaron,

I tried this trick, and it works.  Thanks for the tip.  I still plan on trying the Canson Infinity Baryta 17x22 inch, as it is similar to the GFS but a bit better, IMO.

Edit:  Oops, I just checked a print more carefully and found a long linear scratch.  I guess it's back to the drawing board.

Rob

[AaronPhotog]

Aaron,

I tried this trick, and it works.  Thanks for the tip.  I still plan on trying the Canson Infinity Baryta 17x22 inch, as it is similar to the GFS but a bit better, IMO.

Edit:  Oops, I just checked a print more carefully and found a long linear scratch.  I guess it's back to the drawing board.

Rob

Rob,
Even though I said the platen gap settings aren't that important, what settings were you using, and was it with the GFS or the Canson?  For the Harman, I use 5 and wide.  I also check the sheet with a small flashlight that I shine almost parallel with the sheet as it's coming out so I can see a reflection.  You'll see any scratches right away with that.  

I also suggest that as the paper starts to come out, you reach under it with your fingers and gently support it level until the end of the paper is past the first hinge in the receiving tray.  By then, it is about level with the tray and can be gently lowered and left to support itself the rest of the way out.  Otherwise, you can get a slight upward bend inside the printer if it is allowed to just drop on its own.  If it droops, you may see a scratch beginning partway in from the leading edge.

Also, maybe you are letting it dry a little too long.  There can be a bit of curl left along the long edges when you load the paper into the machine.  Are you in a very dry climate?

Another factor is how you load the paper.  Make sure it is near the back of the sheet feeder and straight as possible.  Again, there may be a slight curve at the edges.  When you have it sitting there against the back, hit the lower rectangular button on the printer to advance the paper into the printer.  It's now at the proper starting position and you can go set everything up with your driver and print when you are ready.

Aloha,
Aaron

[robgo2]

Rob,
Even though I said the platen gap settings aren't that important, what settings were you using, and was it with the GFS or the Canson?  For the Harman, I use 5 and wide.  I also check the sheet with a small flashlight that I shine almost parallel with the sheet as it's coming out so I can see a reflection.  You'll see any scratches right away with that.  

I also suggest that as the paper starts to come out, you reach under it with your fingers and gently support it level until the end of the paper is past the first hinge in the receiving tray.  By then, it is about level with the tray and can be gently lowered and left to support itself the rest of the way out.  Otherwise, you can get a slight upward bend inside the printer if it is allowed to just drop on its own.  If it droops, you may see a scratch beginning partway in from the leading edge.

Also, maybe you are letting it dry a little too long.  There can be a bit of curl left along the long edges when you load the paper into the machine.  Are you in a very dry climate?

Another factor is how you load the paper.  Make sure it is near the back of the sheet feeder and straight as possible.  Again, there may be a slight curve at the edges.  When you have it sitting there against the back, hit the lower rectangular button on the printer to advance the paper into the printer.  It's now at the proper starting position and you can go set everything up with your driver and print when you are ready.

Aloha,
Aaron

Aaron,

I live in a very dry climate--New Mexico--but the paper still had some curl when I loaded it, and I loaded it with the exact same technique that you describe.  I have not tried supporting the paper as it emerges from the printer, but I do note scratches at the trailing end of the paper, which should be fully supported.

Have you tried front loading the paper to deal with the scratching problem?  It probably will have no effect, but I am willing to try anything at this point.  I fully expect that I will end up having to find another kind of paper for 17x22 printing, probably a rag paper.  Don't know about a baryta surface, which I like, but which is very scratch-prone.  

Edit:  I just read the 3880's User's Manual and learned that the front loader cannot handle paper that is 17 inches wide.

Rob

[AaronPhotog]

Aaron,

I live in a very dry climate--New Mexico--but the paper still had some curl when I loaded it, and I loaded it with the exact same technique that you describe.  I have not tried supporting the paper as it emerges from the printer, but I do note scratches at the trailing end of the paper, which should be fully supported.

Have you tried front loading the paper to deal with the scratching problem?  It probably will have no effect, but I am willing to try anything at this point.  I fully expect that I will end up having to find another kind of paper for 17x22 printing, probably a rag paper.  Don't know about a baryta surface, which I like, but which is very scratch-prone.  

Edit:  I just read the 3880's User's Manual and learned that the front loader cannot handle paper that is 17 inches wide.

Rob

Rob,

You should still try supporting it as soon as you can reach it with one hand under the middle of the leading edge.  Otherwise, yes, it will buckle and you may have those scratches.  Even there in New Mexico, if you put this all together, I think it should work for you.  Let's see, what else can I suggest?  I'd carefully bend the paper backwards, being careful not to kink it or scratch the surface, and really get it nice and flat before you spray the back.  I use a piece of clean foamcore for my straightening and spraying area.  When I spray the back, as I said, I've smoothed out the water very gently with a folded soft paper towel so that the whole back looks shiney and smooth, with no big droplets, and then I let it sit.  It should still feel a little cool from evaporation when you put it into the sheet feeder.

Let us know how this works.  It might take some experimenting to find the right amount of curl to leave in the sheet when you load it.  Of course I live in a much more humid climate, typically around 53 %, and the water will leave the back of the print more quickly where you are.  

Since adopting this method with my 3800, scratches just don't happen any more, and I do like the baryta papers.  I also find that after drying for a couple of weeks or more, probably less where you are, the resin encapsulant in the pigment ink hardens up and the prints become far less fragile than when they are new.

Aloha,

Aaron

[Conner999]

Have same issue with my 3800 and larger sheets of FB AL and IGFS. It's not from PW's (even removed mine) - it's from as Aaron stated, the paper distorting after inking and cresting in some spots just enough to contact the 101 #$%^& plastic bits (great idea Epson) hanging down in the print path. As said above you can sit and watch the process take place from the output slot during printing.

It's important to note that it varies by printer copy (IIRC Eric C actually had an Epson staffer tell him such) - making finding a solution difficult as what works for Joe in all odds will not work for Jane.  In short, if the manufacturing variances swing the right way the day your 38xx was minted, you're gold. They swing the wrong way, not so much.

You can try the wetting technique  - might work (didn't for me) or front loading (PITA as need to find JUST the right thickness substrate, slow, and requires larger footprint for printer). Barring those fixes, there really is nothing that can be done - other than finding a PK paper that won't distort when inked - tough when the best 'darkroom-esque' papers are both delicate and are prone to distortion.  I eventually threw up my hands and stick to Epson VFA (my fave anyway) when going large and stick PK only in ltr size. Next printer will have vacuum hold down. Period.

[robgo2]

I am eagerly awaiting delivery of some Canson Infinity Baryta 17x22, but I fully expect that it will have the same problems.  If it does, I will try a rag paper that may be less prone to curling in the printer.  I will keep you all posted.

Rob

[robgo2]

Have same issue with my 3800 and larger sheets of FB AL and IGFS. It's not from PW's (even removed mine) - it's from as Aaron stated, the paper distorting after inking and cresting in some spots just enough to contact the 101 #$%^& plastic bits (great idea Epson) hanging down in the print path. As said above you can sit and watch the process take place from the output slot during printing.

It's important to note that it varies by printer copy (IIRC Eric C actually had an Epson staffer tell him such) - making finding a solution difficult as what works for Joe in all odds will not work for Jane.  In short, if the manufacturing variances swing the right way the day your 38xx was minted, you're gold. They swing the wrong way, not so much.

You can try the wetting technique  - might work (didn't for me) or front loading (PITA as need to find JUST the right thickness substrate, slow, and requires larger footprint for printer). Barring those fixes, there really is nothing that can be done - other than finding a PK paper that won't distort when inked - tough when the best 'darkroom-esque' papers are both delicate and are prone to distortion.  I eventually threw up my hands and stick to Epson VFA (my fave anyway) when going large and stick PK only in ltr size. Next printer will have vacuum hold down. Period.

I think that what is most troubling is the fact that Epson was aware of the scratching problem with the 3800 yet did nothing to rectify it with the 3880.  I would imagine that a rather small redesign in the paper path could have alleviated it completely.  I'm just hoping that I can find a PK paper to my liking that will not show scratches.

Rob

[robgo2]

I am eagerly awaiting delivery of some Canson Infinity Baryta 17x22, but I fully expect that it will have the same problems.  If it does, I will try a rag paper that may be less prone to curling in the printer.  I will keep you all posted.

Rob

Unfortunately, the Canson 17x22 inch sheets have the same scratches coming out of the printer as the GFS.  I am in discussions with Epson on how to deal with this.  Clearly, it is unacceptable.

Rob