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Author Topic: Transitions / Photochromic eyeglasses any experience?  (Read 21856 times)

Ed Taylor

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Transitions / Photochromic eyeglasses any experience?
« on: May 07, 2010, 07:12:32 pm »

Hi,

A couple of years I started needing glasses for reading and computer work. This has extended a bit into my distance vision.

I currently wear a pair of progressives for computer and close-up work, and they work fine for that. I can wear them for shooting, but my distance vision suffers obviously.

With my next pair of progressives I'm considering transitions / photochromic lenses as I hate constantly having my prescription pair on and sunglasses on my head/collar or vice versa. The constant transitioning when going from sun to indoors is a pain as well.

FTR, I'm also getting a pair of prescription polarized glasses for long drives/bright sun conditions, just to protect my eyes.

I've researched the topic and people either love them or hate them.

Hard to find photographers opinions though, anyone?

Love them? Hate them?

Do they get completely clear indoors? How long does it take?
Do they still darken under fluorescent lighting?
After a while do they never completely clear?

Any and all thoughts would be appreciated!

Thanks,

Ed
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Ed Taylor
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Paul Sumi

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Transitions / Photochromic eyeglasses any experience?
« Reply #1 on: May 07, 2010, 08:05:25 pm »

Quote from: Ed Taylor
Hard to find photographers opinions though, anyone?

I normally wear contact lenses (near-sighted) and regular sunglasses.  But I have a pair of transitions glasses (corrected for distance vision) and used them a lot on a recent photography trip to Death Valley.  

They still do not get as dark as regular sunglasses and need direct exposure to sunlight to darken (not great for driving).  They do get completely clear indoors.  Overall they did a good job (definitely IMO, YMMV) when I was outdoors.

From a photography point of view, I have mixed feelings because any darkening/polarization/tinting changes how you visualize the image.  In particular, the variable darkening was tough to get used to.

Paul
« Last Edit: May 08, 2010, 01:57:16 pm by Paul Sumi »
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Richard Morwood

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Transitions / Photochromic eyeglasses any experience?
« Reply #2 on: May 08, 2010, 04:17:39 pm »

Quote from: Ed Taylor
Hi,

A couple of years I started needing glasses for reading and computer work. This has extended a bit into my distance vision.

I currently wear a pair of progressives for computer and close-up work, and they work fine for that. I can wear them for shooting, but my distance vision suffers obviously.

With my next pair of progressives I'm considering transitions / photochromic lenses as I hate constantly having my prescription pair on and sunglasses on my head/collar or vice versa. The constant transitioning when going from sun to indoors is a pain as well.

FTR, I'm also getting a pair of prescription polarized glasses for long drives/bright sun conditions, just to protect my eyes.

I've researched the topic and people either love them or hate them.

Hard to find photographers opinions though, anyone?

Love them? Hate them?

Do they get completely clear indoors? How long does it take?
Do they still darken under fluorescent lighting?
After a while do they never completely clear?

Any and all thoughts would be appreciated!

Thanks,

Ed
Hi Ed
If you are going to choose photochromic lenses then Transitions VI are probably the best. (I have no allegiance to any manufacturer but I am an optometrist so I have prescribed quite a few different ones over the years. I don't use them myself because if I want sunglasses I want SUNGLASSES and when I want clear I really want CLEAR and not a compromise,. The compromise being that they aren't dark enough for me as sunglasses and not crystal clear indoors.
Do the go completely clear? No but it really depends on what you benchmark for clear is. An uncoated plastic lens transmits 92% of the incident light whilst an uncoated (no anti-reflection coating) Transitions lens transmits 89%. Add a good AR coat to both(eg Nikon/Zeiss and others) and a clear lens will transmit 99%+ whereas a Transitions lens transmits 95%. Now that is very good and it IS clearer than uncoated plastic but for me not as clear as I want indoors. I want as invisible as possible. However everyone is different and many people love photochromic.
I dislike doing photography in any form of sunglass as I find it harder to judge the colours/polarising effect etc and in fact I will mostly wear contact lenses and no sunglasses at all just because that is how I like it.
When they darken Transitions go to between 23 - 12% transmission depending on temperature. The cooler it is the darker the lenses go. Time taken to darken varies with lens colour. The brown version is slower that the grey but you will get a tint of 25-20% transmission within a minute but it takes a lot longer to fade. After 5 minutes you will have gone from  eg 15% transmission to about 65% transmission. Ten minutes and you are at 75% transmission. I don't know exactly but I would guess 20+ minutes until you are back to the starting point.
All photochromic lenses need UV light to react and hence artificial light has no effect on them. This is also why they don't work well in a car. The windscreen absorbs UV and so it isn't transmitted to the lens, but if you drive a convertible then you are ok!! Rodenstock produce their own photochromic lens which uses UV and blue light to react and it will give a partial reaction in the car because blue light is transmitted through the windscreen. However it doesn't compare with proper sunglasses for driving.
As they age all photochromic lenses will be a bit darker inside and don't go quite as dark in the sunshine.
Many of my patients who have discontinued using photochromic stopped because they didn't like the look of them in certain conditions. Outdoor photographs often have someone wearing "sunglasses" because they have forgotten that the UV and/or cold have triggered them off. Also for many they weren't effective enough, took too long to clear or just too much of a compromise. But I do still have many, many people happily using them. Can't think of many photographers though.
Hope this helps.
regards
Richard
« Last Edit: May 08, 2010, 04:18:41 pm by Richard Morwood »
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Ed Taylor

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Transitions / Photochromic eyeglasses any experience?
« Reply #3 on: May 08, 2010, 08:17:34 pm »

Quote from: Paul Sumi
I normally wear contact lenses (near-sighted) and regular sunglasses.  But I have a pair of transitions glasses (corrected for distance vision) and used them a lot on a recent photography trip to Death Valley.  

They still do not get as dark as regular sunglasses and need direct exposure to sunlight to darken (not great for driving).  They do get completely clear indoors.  Overall they did a good job (definitely IMO, YMMV) when I was outdoors.

From a photography point of view, I have mixed feelings because any darkening/polarization/tinting changes how you visualize the image.  In particular, the variable darkening was tough to get used to.

Paul

Hi Paul,

Thanks for your thoughts.

I hear you about the inability of transitions to get as dark as conventional sunglasses. I've included in my budget a set of conventional aviator sunglasses with my progressive prescription and polarized lenses for those times when the sun is strong, or I know I'll be driving for a significant amount of time.

I'm looking for them as more of a day to day convenience. I'll also carry my other pair which are corrected for reading and computer for those times when the darkening is an issue. My uncorrected distance vision is more than good enough to judge as scene for values, etc.

If I may ask, how long do you estimate it takes for them to get "clear" indoors?

Thanks again!

Best,

Ed
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Ed Taylor
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Paul Sumi

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Transitions / Photochromic eyeglasses any experience?
« Reply #4 on: May 08, 2010, 08:39:51 pm »

Quote from: Ed Taylor
If I may ask, how long do you estimate it takes for them to get "clear" indoors?

Hi Ed,

Unfortunately I don't wear my transitions glasses enough to have any idea how long it take for them to get "clear" indoors.  I normally wear contacts and carry reading glasses for closeup work and regular sunglasses for driving.

The transitions are for those times when contacts (mine are gas permeable daily wear) are not convenient and also as back up should I somehow lose a contact.

In that role (my transitions also went camping on Hunts Mesa in Monument Valley last year), they work well for me.

Sorry I can't give you any more definitive answers.

Paul
« Last Edit: May 08, 2010, 08:45:47 pm by Paul Sumi »
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Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Transitions / Photochromic eyeglasses any experience?
« Reply #5 on: May 08, 2010, 08:42:53 pm »

Quote from: Ed Taylor
If I may ask, how long do you estimate it takes for them to get "clear" indoors?

Hi Ed,

It may take a number of minutes, but your eyes will compensate by opening up the pupils. I don't notice it coming in from outdoors to indoors.

I have Zeiss i.Scription lenses (measured at more points across the eye's lens, which also helps night vision, and modeled more accurately to reduce residual aberrations) in my specs, and I've been told that the plastic lenses go darker than glass lenses and go clearer as well. They are not cheap (an understatement) but have served me well so far. The only negative of my multifocals is that the angle of view is somewhat restricted, when one cannot turn ones head far enough (but that's another issue).

Cheers,
Bart
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Paul Sumi

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Transitions / Photochromic eyeglasses any experience?
« Reply #6 on: May 08, 2010, 08:44:28 pm »

Quote from: Richard Morwood
I am an optometrist...

Richard, it's great to have you here, as an optometrist who understands the needs of photographers.

Best,

Paul
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Ed Taylor

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Transitions / Photochromic eyeglasses any experience?
« Reply #7 on: May 08, 2010, 08:59:32 pm »

Quote from: Richard Morwood
Hi Ed
If you are going to choose photochromic lenses then Transitions VI are probably the best. (I have no allegiance to any manufacturer but I am an optometrist so I have prescribed quite a few different ones over the years. I don't use them myself because if I want sunglasses I want SUNGLASSES and when I want clear I really want CLEAR and not a compromise,. The compromise being that they aren't dark enough for me as sunglasses and not crystal clear indoors.
Do the go completely clear? No but it really depends on what you benchmark for clear is. An uncoated plastic lens transmits 92% of the incident light whilst an uncoated (no anti-reflection coating) Transitions lens transmits 89%. Add a good AR coat to both(eg Nikon/Zeiss and others) and a clear lens will transmit 99%+ whereas a Transitions lens transmits 95%. Now that is very good and it IS clearer than uncoated plastic but for me not as clear as I want indoors. I want as invisible as possible. However everyone is different and many people love photochromic.
I dislike doing photography in any form of sunglass as I find it harder to judge the colours/polarising effect etc and in fact I will mostly wear contact lenses and no sunglasses at all just because that is how I like it.
When they darken Transitions go to between 23 - 12% transmission depending on temperature. The cooler it is the darker the lenses go. Time taken to darken varies with lens colour. The brown version is slower that the grey but you will get a tint of 25-20% transmission within a minute but it takes a lot longer to fade. After 5 minutes you will have gone from  eg 15% transmission to about 65% transmission. Ten minutes and you are at 75% transmission. I don't know exactly but I would guess 20+ minutes until you are back to the starting point.
All photochromic lenses need UV light to react and hence artificial light has no effect on them. This is also why they don't work well in a car. The windscreen absorbs UV and so it isn't transmitted to the lens, but if you drive a convertible then you are ok!! Rodenstock produce their own photochromic lens which uses UV and blue light to react and it will give a partial reaction in the car because blue light is transmitted through the windscreen. However it doesn't compare with proper sunglasses for driving.
As they age all photochromic lenses will be a bit darker inside and don't go quite as dark in the sunshine.
Many of my patients who have discontinued using photochromic stopped because they didn't like the look of them in certain conditions. Outdoor photographs often have someone wearing "sunglasses" because they have forgotten that the UV and/or cold have triggered them off. Also for many they weren't effective enough, took too long to clear or just too much of a compromise. But I do still have many, many people happily using them. Can't think of many photographers though.
Hope this helps.
regards
Richard

Richard, Thanks for your detailed reply! I wasn't expecting an optometrist to weigh in!

There is a lot of good info here!

My reason for wanting them is I find myself continually switching between the two...

Is that 20 minutes to clear different from brand to brand? That might be a deal breaker for me.

Thanks again for your informative response!

Best,

Ed


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Best Regards,

Ed Taylor
www.edtaylorphoto.com

DarkPenguin

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Transitions / Photochromic eyeglasses any experience?
« Reply #8 on: May 08, 2010, 10:44:20 pm »

Hate.

They suck (in general as well as) in the cold.
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Richard Morwood

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Transitions / Photochromic eyeglasses any experience?
« Reply #9 on: May 09, 2010, 09:19:25 am »

Quote from: Ed Taylor
Richard, Thanks for your detailed reply! I wasn't expecting an optometrist to weigh in!

There is a lot of good info here!

My reason for wanting them is I find myself continually switching between the two...

Is that 20 minutes to clear different from brand to brand? That might be a deal breaker for me.

Thanks again for your informative response!

Best,

Ed
Hi Ed
Yes the fading time will vary a bit from brand to brand but all will take considerably longer to go from a dark tint to their faded state indoors than the other way round. Also they are not all equally clear when faded. For example Rodenstock's photochromic lenses, even with an anti-reflection coating, will not be as clear indoors as Transitions VI with an AR coat (I would guess by possibly 5-10% absorption) but they don't go any darker when reacted. As I mentioned they will work slightly better in a car environment however nowhere near a effective as bespoke sunspecs. But just because they aren't as clear indoors doesn't mean that they will fade to their clearest level any quicker than others. The time to fade is a bit of a bug-bear with all photochromics and I couldn't honestly recommend one as being superior in that capacity to others.
Regards
Richard
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Richard Morwood

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Transitions / Photochromic eyeglasses any experience?
« Reply #10 on: May 09, 2010, 10:17:57 am »

Quote from: BartvanderWolf
Hi Ed,

It may take a number of minutes, but your eyes will compensate by opening up the pupils. I don't notice it coming in from outdoors to indoors.

I have Zeiss i.Scription lenses (measured at more points across the eye's lens, which also helps night vision, and modeled more accurately to reduce residual aberrations) in my specs, and I've been told that the plastic lenses go darker than glass lenses and go clearer as well. They are not cheap (an understatement) but have served me well so far. The only negative of my multifocals is that the angle of view is somewhat restricted, when one cannot turn ones head far enough (but that's another issue).

Cheers,
Bart
Hi Bart
Zeiss iScription lenses utilise sightly different technology than is usually employed in manufacturing spectacle lenses. "Ordinary" spectacle lenses correct what are known as low order aberrations (LOAs) (e.g. the short-sightedness/long-sightedness/astigmatism) but about 33% of the population have considerable high-order aberrations (HOAs) too. These are coma/trefoil/sph aberration/etc,etc all within the optical system of the eye, and the Zeiss i-Profier (a wavefront aberrometer)actually measures and quantifies these. Zeiss then have the "knowhow" to combine the information that an optometrist provides to them with the i-Profiler information and manufacture a lens, in single vision or varifocal form, that will correct their vision much more like a fingerprint. Contrast improves as too do colours and vision in poor light, when the pupil is largest and therefore the high-order aberrations most obvious (destructive), becomes much sharper and crisper. Driving at night is one of the most noticeable improvements.
Since I have been using the i-Profier and the resultant i-Scription lenses I have found the results outstanding. Even my own vision is noticeably better and I only just have sufficient HOAs to warrant the i-Scription lenses. I have even been able to prescribe correction for people who I couldn't in the past because they only have HOAs and no LOAs worth speaking of. In 20+ years of practice undoubtedly the best/most useful/most satisfying piece of equipment that I have used.
Zeiss photochromic lenses are made of the same Transitions VI material as many other manufacturers use but the coatings are obviously Zeiss.
You are quite right in stating that glass photochromic lenses aren't as good as plastic and with the exception of Zeiss, glass photochromic lenses tend to be solid. This means that where the lens is thicker the lens is darker and for someone who is quite short-sighted the lens is darkest around the edge and clearer in the centre where it is thinnest. Not cosmetically attractive nor particularly useful. Plastic lenses use a uniform thickness of photochromic material on the surface so the lens tint is always uniform. Here in the UK glass lenses are still used but very, very seldom.
Varifocals all differ in the extent to which you can see peripherally. Partly due to prescriptive restrictions, partly due to the lens design and partly due to the way a frame actually fits your face. You can't "help" what prescription you have, but you do have a choice of lens design. Most manufacturers produce between 3-6 different lens designs, progressively more complicated and expensive. Basically each upgrade in design means slightly more useful area within the lens and less of the distortion zones. Also the distortion becomes less pronounced but even with the best design it cannot be avoided completely.
The fit of a frame can make a huge difference to the overall clarity and visual field that you get through the lens. Manufacturers use certain averages when designing a varifocal e.g. how far it is sitting from your eye, how far apart your eyes are, the angle of the lens in front of your eye and the wraparound effect of the frame. All of these have an effect on the extent to which you can see through a lens and the blurred parts in the bottom corners. Some manufacturers will actually design a lens incorporating these individual measurements and in doing so you end up with glasses with the biggest useful area for your prescription and for the way the frame fits your face. A pair of Zeiss Gradal Individual i-Scription lenses is about as good as I have ever come across, perhaps the Leica Summilux of the spectacle world! (I have no connection with Zeiss and they do not reimburse me in any way for saying all of these nice things - mores the pity!)
Regards
Richard
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blansky

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Transitions / Photochromic eyeglasses any experience?
« Reply #11 on: May 09, 2010, 01:25:51 pm »

I had a pair of progressive transitions and didn't like them for the simple reason they didn't work while driving. Therefore they made them useless to me. I have regular glasses and progressive sunglasses instead.

My progressives work well for everything I do, from piano, to computer to reading to focusing to driving, and I'm anal about sharpness.



Michael
« Last Edit: May 09, 2010, 01:26:22 pm by blansky »
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