Pages: [1]   Go Down

Author Topic: Canon 7D and 45 megapixels  (Read 7389 times)

Phinius

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 39
    • Violet Crown Photogaphs
Canon 7D and 45 megapixels
« on: May 06, 2010, 01:06:32 pm »

In same article its states: "I thought I'd try using the higher resolution sensor of a 7D. This would be equivalent to a 45 megapixel full-frame sensor."

What did he mean by this? I know megapixels are not the only factor when considering the resolving power of a camera system, but I don't get this quote.
Logged

Slobodan Blagojevic

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 18090
  • When everyone thinks the same, nobody thinks
    • My website
Canon 7D and 45 megapixels
« Reply #1 on: May 06, 2010, 01:56:59 pm »

Or lets try from this angle:

   7D sensor area is 22.3 x 14.9 mm (3.32 cm²)

   A full-frame sensor area is 36 x 24 mm (8.64 cm²)

In other words, full frame sensor has an area that is 2.6 times larger (i.e., 8.64 / 3.32).

   2.6 x 18 Mp = 46 Mp

Or, in reverse, if you would have a (hypothetical) 46 Mp full frame sensor and take a crop (central part of it) measuring 22.3 x 14.9 mm (like 7D's), that crop would be having 18 Mp.

fredjeang

  • Guest
Canon 7D and 45 megapixels
« Reply #2 on: May 06, 2010, 02:16:37 pm »

Quote from: Slobodan Blagojevic
Or lets try from this angle:

   7D sensor area is 22.3 x 14.9 mm (3.32 cm²)

   A full-frame sensor area is 36 x 24 mm (8.64 cm²)

In other words, full frame sensor has an area that is 2.6 times larger (i.e., 8.64 / 3.32).

   2.6 x 18 Mp = 46 Mp

Or, in reverse, if you would have a (hypothetical) 46 Mp full frame sensor and take a crop (central part of it) measuring 22.3 x 14.9 mm (like 7D's), that crop would be having 18 Mp.
Trying to overcome my natural repultion for maths and calculations, if I understand well, Canon is going to fill the FF sensors with 45MP????
What about pixel-density in IQ ? Thought that was really the most important factor.
Logged

Slobodan Blagojevic

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 18090
  • When everyone thinks the same, nobody thinks
    • My website
Canon 7D and 45 megapixels
« Reply #3 on: May 06, 2010, 03:15:58 pm »

Quote from: fredjeang
Trying to overcome my natural repultion for maths and calculations, if I understand well, Canon is going to fill the FF sensors with 45MP????
What about pixel-density in IQ ? Thought that was really the most important factor.
Well, whether Canon is going to do it or not is a different matter, but hypothetically they could. And, based on the assumptions above, pixel density would stay the same. Think about it this way: all it takes is to take 2.6 7D sensors and position them next to each other vertically, and you would get a full-frame 46 Mp one, with the same pixel density and IQ.

stever

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1250
Canon 7D and 45 megapixels
« Reply #4 on: May 06, 2010, 07:34:53 pm »

the problem being that Canon does not now make any lenses that can take advantage of the pixel density of the 7D.  from my comparison of a few of Canon's top primes, my guess is that going from the 5D2 up to 32mp will be give a marginal improvement in resolution for Canon's very best lenses and that going beyond 32mp will have no benefit with any existing glass - unless you want to consider using $20,000 cine lenses
Logged

Romy Ocon

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 9
Canon 7D and 45 megapixels
« Reply #5 on: May 06, 2010, 10:52:54 pm »

Quote from: stever
the problem being that Canon does not now make any lenses that can take advantage of the pixel density of the 7D.  from my comparison of a few of Canon's top primes, my guess is that going from the 5D2 up to 32mp will be give a marginal improvement in resolution for Canon's very best lenses and that going beyond 32mp will have no benefit with any existing glass - unless you want to consider using $20,000 cine lenses


Canon do make lenses that can outresove the 7D by a wide margin now! Below is a link to a 100% crop from a 7D + 400 2.8 IS + 2x TC + 2x TC (1600 mm). You'd notice that resolution is still good at the pixel level. If I had used a sensor with smaller pixels to resolve the same detail instead of a 4x optical TC, the equivalent pixel linear dimension will be  1/4 that of the current 7D pixels and total no. of pixels is 16x that of the 7D - 286 MP for an APS-C sized sensor, or over 700 MP for a 24 mm x 36 mm sensor. We're obviously very far from those sensor resolutions yet.

http://www.pbase.com/liquidstone/image/122714790/original
« Last Edit: May 06, 2010, 10:56:35 pm by Romy Ocon »
Logged
Philippine Wild Birds in HD video - [url

ErikKaffehr

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 11311
    • Echophoto
Canon 7D and 45 megapixels
« Reply #6 on: May 07, 2010, 01:24:54 am »

Hi,

The Canon 7D has a high pixel density but a small sensor. Would a full frame camera have the save pixel density it would have 45 MPixels. Technically it's crop factor^2 * APS-C MPixels.

BR
Erik

Quote from: rjohn1388
In same article its states: "I thought I'd try using the higher resolution sensor of a 7D. This would be equivalent to a 45 megapixel full-frame sensor."

What did he mean by this? I know megapixels are not the only factor when considering the resolving power of a camera system, but I don't get this quote.
Logged
Erik Kaffehr
 

ErikKaffehr

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 11311
    • Echophoto
Canon 7D and 45 megapixels
« Reply #7 on: May 07, 2010, 01:47:11 am »

Hi,

Image quality is more related to sensor size than pixel size. The reason is that IQ is most dependent on the number of photons collected. Just having more pixels will reduce the image quality per pixel but that is compensated by having more pixels.

Resolution will increase with increasing number of pixels and aliasing will be weaker. Sharpness/resolution is more likely limited by diffraction and lens limitations.

In my view the only disadvantage with many pixels is that processing time increases and so does needed storage place.

The only case this would not hold is if the high pixel density reduces the photon capture efficiency of the sensor or well capacity in the sensor is reduced. Adding more pixels adds more electronics and makes the sensor cells smaller. This would ultimately lead to less of the imagers are used for actual sensors. Also with small sensor cells, well capacity will be reduced, so DR (by the technical definition SNR equals unity) will go down.

So, a full frame sensor with the same pixel density as the 7D will have essentially the same image quality as the Canon 5DII but will enlarge better. It will not reach MFDB IQ because the smaller sensor collects less photons.

Enlargement size will be limited by lens quality. Any decent lens is sharp enough at the center at medium apertures to cope with most sensors, edges and corners may be different. Utilizing all megapixels needs cautious work, very good lenses reaching optimum performance at f/5.6, not stopping down much beyond f/5.6, exact focusing a good tripod and mirror lock up, or very short shutter times.


Best regards
Erik

Quote from: fredjeang
Trying to overcome my natural repultion for maths and calculations, if I understand well, Canon is going to fill the FF sensors with 45MP????
What about pixel-density in IQ ? Thought that was really the most important factor.
Logged
Erik Kaffehr
 

KevinA

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 979
    • Tree Without a Bird
Canon 7D and 45 megapixels
« Reply #8 on: May 07, 2010, 04:36:13 am »

I keep seeing various amounts of calculations to justify or condemn the need for more pixels. My take is if I'm going to crop, which I frequently do, I would rather be cropping captured information rather than interpolating the crop to make the size needed.  More pixels do not make my lenses worse or better, they do what they do, sure I would happily have more resolution in the crop, as it stands I'm happy to have more pixels with the lenses I have regardless of detail resolved so I don't have to depend upon interpolation, which I think degrades the image. I'm happy to have more pixels to help me keep what I have.

Kevin.
Logged
Kevin.

Chris Pollock

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 206
Canon 7D and 45 megapixels
« Reply #9 on: May 30, 2010, 06:41:30 am »

Personally I'd prefer the 5D Mark III (or whatever they call it) to offer improved dynamic range and less noise rather than more resolution. More resolution would be better, but in practice a better dynamic range would be a lot more useful. As others have pointed out, getting the benefit of more than 21 megapixels would be quite difficult - you'd need to use only the best quality lenses, focus perfectly, and avoid the slightest hint of camera shake. Unless the subject was at or near infinity, only a narrow distance range would be close enough to the plane of focus to be limited by sensor resolution.
Logged
Pages: [1]   Go Up