Speedlite-based portrait lighting setup

[feppe]

I've done several portrait shoots at a rented studio with rented lighting. The rental costs for the lighting are starting to add up, and it would make more sense to buy my own kit. I'm planning to base it on speedlites due to cost and portability. The idea is to have 3-4 speedlites, slaves on stands fired with the one on my camera.

I'm looking to shoot tight facials to full-length in a proper studio. I understand that speedlites might be stretched with the light modifiers with full-length portraits, any suggestions to improve this are also welcome.

I already have a Canon 580EX II and the Sigma equivalent, a reflector, and a ringflash adapter. The following is what I've gathered - am I missing anything, no matter how obvious (I'm a major n00b when it comes to artificial lighting)?

• 1-2 x additional Speedlite - for a total of 3-4 for more versatility and to get more light for full-lengths
• 3-4 x lightstand - 2-3 for speedlites, one for setting up a reflector or flag
• 2 x umbrella box - most "proper" softboxes are either too expensive, too flimsy, or too small and/or don't pack well. The 60" Softliter II is the most attractive if I can find them somewhere. Any alternatives? Or am I limiting myself too much by avoiding softboxes - ie. light spill, no grids?
• 1-2 x convertible umbrella - 60" or so shoot-through/reflective
• clamps and rods - what do I need to attach a speedlite to the lightstand? What do I need to attach to the umbrellas and umbrella box?
• some kind of reliable remote release - pocket wizards are ridiculously expensive for such a technologically dumb product, and radio poppers are not available in Europe yet, any suggestions? Can I use some web-like PC-cable contraption to fire all speedlites? I've had some aggravating misfires even with my current setup so looking for something more reliable than IR.
• A huge pack of rechargeables
• Possibly a set of Honl snoots/grids/etc. Are these any good for studio work?
• Anything else?

[lightstand]

You can never have too much black-wrap, gaffers tape, and plain old foam core

[Ken Bennett]

I have a portable speedlight kit for location portraits; it would work just fine in the studio. I like the compact size, the battery operation, etc., HOWEVER, it would be much cheaper in some ways to just buy Alien Bees or similar mono lights for studio use. My speedlight kit cost me over $3000 -- which I am willing to pay for the portability, but then I shoot almost everything on location. (And I have studio lights for shooting in the studio.)

I can provide details on the speedlight kit if you want. The Honl modifiers are great.

[feppe]

I have a portable speedlight kit for location portraits; it would work just fine in the studio. I like the compact size, the battery operation, etc., HOWEVER, it would be much cheaper in some ways to just buy Alien Bees or similar mono lights for studio use. My speedlight kit cost me over $3000 -- which I am willing to pay for the portability, but then I shoot almost everything on location. (And I have studio lights for shooting in the studio.)

I can provide details on the speedlight kit if you want. The Honl modifiers are great.

I've looked at Alien Bees but they don't serve European customers, and offer no international warranty even if I do procure them somehow. I'm not aware of similar products coming even close to AB prices in Europe (don't get me started on EU pricing). I've also looked at some lighting kits in a box which have laughably poor quality and seem to be suitable only for facials (tiny umbrellas).

I'd be interested in your speedlite setup, although 3k is above my budget.

edit: the Bowens 400 seems to be competitively priced, have to take a look at that option.

[tom b]

Check out the Strobist blog. Excellent for off camera flash.

http://strobist.blogspot.com

Cheers,

[Ken Bennett]

I'd be interested in your speedlite setup, although 3k is above my budget.

OK. Here's the kit. Everything fits inside a Pelican 1514 rolling case, which meets USA carry on standards.

Speedlights: a mix of Canon flash units. I prefer the 430 EX II for size, weight, cost, and compatibility with the Pocket Wizard TTL system. I have 6 units, though only 4 are in the case.

Triggers: a mixed set of Pocket Wizards, 5 of the new TTL units, and 4 of the older standard units. The TTL units are mostly used with the flashes on Manual mode. I am waiting (sort of patiently) for the remote control unit that will let me change flash power from the camera position. Yes, the PW's are seriously expensive.

Stands: Two of the Bogen reverse fold light stands fit inside. They are tall enough for general use. I also carry two Justin Clamps -- since this is almost all location work, I use the clamps a lot. I like the Lastolite Triflash adapters to attach the flash units, but the Bogen stand adapters are fine too.

Modifiers: two of the 43 inch double fold umbrellas, one shoot thru and one silver/black. A complete set of the Honl modifiers -- 3 snoots, 2 grids, 4 barn doors. They are terrific. Various color color gel filters cut to size -- mostly warming but some color effects filters. Also, I carry a 48-inch Lastolite shoot thru Tri-Grip panel, which is awesome for quick setups -- have an assistant hold a TTL flash and aim it in the general direction of the subject. Easy, fast, and great light. (This panel does not fit inside the case.)

So, as I said, not a cheap system. But, it can be done at lower cost.

Lights: You don't need Canon (or Nikon) speedlights if you aren't using the TTL features. Any manual flash like a Vivitar 285 or the Lumopro 120 will work fine. The Lumopro has a built in optical slave -- which is an easy way to fire it in the studio, and for $130 it's pretty cheap to boot. A kit of 3 Lumopros is less than the cost of a top of the line TTL speedlight.

Triggers: use the optical slaves. Cheap and effective in the studio.

Other stuff: lots of things on the MPEX web site. Not sure what, if any of this stuff is available in Europe, but but it might give you some ideas.

(Usual disclaimer -- I don't have any commercial relationship with anyone I linked to.)

Cheers,

Ken

[schrodingerscat]

The only caveat is that the speedlites, like most camera manufacturer's flashes, do not take kindly to multiple rapid fire use. If you try and use them beyond the restrictions listed in the user manual there is a very good chance on frying either the main board or the xenon tube. If you must use a non studio type flash, at least get the Qfash if doing heavy lifting. Know an event guy who spends about $500 a year repairing his Canons.

[feppe]

OK. Here's the kit. Everything fits inside a Pelican 1514 rolling case, which meets USA carry on standards.

Speedlights: a mix of Canon flash units. I prefer the 430 EX II for size, weight, cost, and compatibility with the Pocket Wizard TTL system. I have 6 units, though only 4 are in the case.

Triggers: a mixed set of Pocket Wizards, 5 of the new TTL units, and 4 of the older standard units. The TTL units are mostly used with the flashes on Manual mode. I am waiting (sort of patiently) for the remote control unit that will let me change flash power from the camera position. Yes, the PW's are seriously expensive.

Stands: Two of the Bogen reverse fold light stands fit inside. They are tall enough for general use. I also carry two Justin Clamps -- since this is almost all location work, I use the clamps a lot. I like the Lastolite Triflash adapters to attach the flash units, but the Bogen stand adapters are fine too.

Modifiers: two of the 43 inch double fold umbrellas, one shoot thru and one silver/black. A complete set of the Honl modifiers -- 3 snoots, 2 grids, 4 barn doors. They are terrific. Various color color gel filters cut to size -- mostly warming but some color effects filters. Also, I carry a 48-inch Lastolite shoot thru Tri-Grip panel, which is awesome for quick setups -- have an assistant hold a TTL flash and aim it in the general direction of the subject. Easy, fast, and great light. (This panel does not fit inside the case.)

So, as I said, not a cheap system. But, it can be done at lower cost.

Lights: You don't need Canon (or Nikon) speedlights if you aren't using the TTL features. Any manual flash like a Vivitar 285 or the Lumopro 120 will work fine. The Lumopro has a built in optical slave -- which is an easy way to fire it in the studio, and for $130 it's pretty cheap to boot. A kit of 3 Lumopros is less than the cost of a top of the line TTL speedlight.

Triggers: use the optical slaves. Cheap and effective in the studio.

Other stuff: lots of things on the MPEX web site. Not sure what, if any of this stuff is available in Europe, but but it might give you some ideas.

(Usual disclaimer -- I don't have any commercial relationship with anyone I linked to.)

Cheers,

Ken

Thanks, Ken! I've been planning to get more of the Sigmas for better pricing, as soon as I confirm they slave well with the 580EX II.

Are you saying the IR works well in the studio for you? I've had some problems with it - I think that's partly due to the ring flash adapter blocking the IR port.

I think I'll take a visit to the local Calumet to check out their selection before committing to a speedlite setup.

[Ken Bennett]

The only caveat is that the speedlites, like most camera manufacturer's flashes, do not take kindly to multiple rapid fire use. If you try and use them beyond the restrictions listed in the user manual there is a very good chance on frying either the main board or the xenon tube.

Interesting. Never had a problem, and I shoot pretty fast. The thing is, I never shoot on full power -- and rarely go over 1/4 power. The last dinner I shot had a 430EXII on a light stand at the back of the room, on 1/8 power manual and zoomed to 105mm, aimed at the podium. I had a 580EXII in the camera for on-axis fill no matter where I shot from. Shooting at ISO 800 I was getting great results and shooting pretty quickly.

Shooting full power flashes too quickly will kill the flash.

[MarkL]

Speedlights do struggle with modifiers for full length shots but if you are tied to a studio you may be slightly better off since there is no sun and flash sync limit to content with. I have put togther a bracket that allows two speedlights to be used next to each other but doubling the power only gives 1 extra stop.

For softboxes look at the westcott apollos, they have an umrella type contruction for packing away small and don't need a speed ring. They are a pain to get in the UK and to tilt them down very far you need a C stand due to the design.

The radio trigger options here in the UK are pretty limited which is so frustrating - I'm getting my with nikon cls. I'd look at cybersync if you can live with dumb sync (not had good experiences with skyports and high sync speeds), since radiopopper have gone silent on euro release date the only option left in the mix are the new pocketwizards for which the nikon version is still in testing.

Alien bees do look about the same price as buying speedlights and many will be being dumped with the new einsteins arriving but again getting them in the UK is a drama. Maybe look at metz 60CT4s or sunpak 120Js off ebay? The metz packs quite a punch with a GN of 70 vs 38 from a speedlight which gives you almost 2 stops more power.

[feppe]

Speedlights do struggle with modifiers for full length shots but if you are tied to a studio you may be slightly better off since there is no sun and flash sync limit to content with. I have put togther a bracket that allows two speedlights to be used next to each other but doubling the power only gives 1 extra stop.

For softboxes look at the westcott apollos, they have an umrella type contruction for packing away small and don't need a speed ring. They are a pain to get in the UK and to tilt them down very far you need a C stand due to the design.

The radio trigger options here in the UK are pretty limited which is so frustrating - I'm getting my with nikon cls. I'd look at cybersync if you can live with dumb sync (not had good experiences with skyports and high sync speeds), since radiopopper have gone silent on euro release date the only option left in the mix are the new pocketwizards for which the nikon version is still in testing.

Alien bees do look about the same price as buying speedlights and many will be being dumped with the new einsteins arriving but again getting them in the UK is a drama. Maybe look at metz 60CT4s or sunpak 120Js off ebay? The metz packs quite a punch with a GN of 70 vs 38 from a speedlight which gives you almost 2 stops more power.

It looks like a hybrid approach would be most cost-effective: using my existing speedlites along with a 2-3 head Bowens Gemini 400 setup, for example. They should also give enough power for full-length shots with large softboxes.

The Apollo looks very good, and works with speedlites and studio lights, thanks!

I inquired Radiopopper availability from them earlier, and here response I received from them on March 25 - somewhat promising although I've seen similar responses on forums in Fall of 2009.

...However, we are working diligently to bring the RadioPopper PX to other markets.  As we meet regulatory requirements of individual countries and establish export schedules, we will post updates on our website (www.RadioPopper.com).  We do have an EU & Australian specific unit set for release this year.

[Ben Rubinstein]

Alien Bees have just started becoming available in the EU. Personally I believe that if you do not need more than 400 w/s (you don't for headshots) then the new Elinchrom D-Lite 400 'it' units are better made, cheaper and better speced, they also include the excellent skyport triggering system built in.

The Bowens 400's are not popular in the UK, mutterings about quality of the build, never heard any real stories about failures though.

I wouldn't recommend speedlites and I use them for this stuff at every wedding I shoot. They are just not designed for full power bursts again and again. You'll burn them out too soon. They can be used in modifiers but they are not designed for it, it's a kludge, the power is too low, the modifiers too small.

[feppe]

Alien Bees have just started becoming available in the EU. Personally I believe that if you do not need more than 400 w/s (you don't for headshots) then the new Elinchrom D-Lite 400 'it' units are better made, cheaper and better speced, they also include the excellent skyport triggering system built in.

The Bowens 400's are not popular in the UK, mutterings about quality of the build, never heard any real stories about failures though.

I wouldn't recommend speedlites and I use them for this stuff at every wedding I shoot. They are just not designed for full power bursts again and again. You'll burn them out too soon. They can be used in modifiers but they are not designed for it, it's a kludge, the power is too low, the modifiers too small.

D-Lite 400-it is a bit more expensive here than the Bowens, but they come with Skyport, while the Bowens doesn't - so overall they are indeed slightly cheaper. Reliable remote triggering would be a huge plus, so the Elinchroms sound good - thanks!

Looks like I have some further reading to do and visits to the shops.

[MarkL]

Alien Bees have just started becoming available in the EU. Personally I believe that if you do not need more than 400 w/s (you don't for headshots) then the new Elinchrom D-Lite 400 'it' units are better made, cheaper and better speced, they also include the excellent skyport triggering system built in.

Yup, just saw this: http://paulcbuff.eu.com/cms/index.php?opti...=3&Itemid=1

I had difficulties getting anywhere near 1/250 sync with Elinchroms and skyports and no issues at all using nikon cls with my D700. Skyports are on my avoid list, the last thing I want in midday sun is to have to shoot at 1/160.

I inquired Radiopopper availability from them earlier, and here response I received from them on March 25 - somewhat promising although I've seen similar responses on forums in Fall of 2009.

I've given up waiting for radiopoppers, I can't see it happening and there are no updates at all, my comment on their blog asking for an update was deleted too. The new pocketwizards have hypersync giving a bit extra sync speed too so I'm holding out for the nikon version and from the updates on their site indicate a very extensive testing program to avoid the problems with the canon version.

Westcott stuff is hard to get here in the uk, theflashcentre have the umbrellas but nothing else so I ordered from www.creativevideo.co.uk. The 50" may be a special order.

[!--quoteo(post=364410:date=May 7 2010, 01:35 PM:name=)--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE ( @ May 7 2010, 01:35 PM) [a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=364410\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--quotec--]I wouldn't recommend speedlites and I use them for this stuff at every wedding I shoot. They are just not designed for full power bursts again and again. You'll burn them out too soon. They can be used in modifiers but they are not designed for it, it's a kludge, the power is too low, the modifiers too small.[/quote]

They do struggle badly with group shots, full length shots with modifiers and bright sun. As I have no assistant bigger lights are not really an option for me right now.

[David Good]

It looks like a hybrid approach would be most cost-effective: using my existing speedlites along with a 2-3 head Bowens Gemini 400 setup, for example. They should also give enough power for full-length shots with large softboxes.

The Apollo looks very good, and works with speedlites and studio lights, thanks!

I inquired Radiopopper availability from them earlier, and here response I received from them on March 25 - somewhat promising although I've seen similar responses on forums in Fall of 2009.

I use a hybrid approach also, 3-Bowens 400's (no problems) and two gridded Speedlights on the background. I trigger them all with Cybersyncs, inexpensive and very reliable, just can't use ETTL though. The modeling lights make a big difference also, better than guessing.

[Conner999]

Another vote for more mono lights then speedlights. The cost of multiple speedlights, batteries/packs, etc., add's up very fast.  Some entry level strobes like Dlites or similar will give you far more power, modeling lights, power adjustment in 1/10 -1/20th of a stop,  possibly include radio slaves. Most will pop away all dat at full power with no issues and will have no problem doing justice to any reasonable rectangular, strip or octo softbox or large umbrella or Softlighter II. Pick up a decent light meter and some decent stands you're good to go. Buy used as well - always lots of clean gear flowing thru various B&S forums.

On modifiers - start with the basics and take it from the there -  basic medium/large softboxe(s), multi-purpose umbrella(s) like the Softlighter II, couple of reflectors and grids, some reflector material (black/white foam core, or a collapsible) and a diffuser of some form.  On softboxes - my advice (same with strobes) would be to buy fewer better units vs many cheaper ones -- and stick with units that can take grids to keep your options open.    On grip, you can never have too much gaffer tape, too many 'Hollywood' knuckles (e.g. Avenger D200s), 40" Grip Arms or superclamps ;> Good luck

[KeithTrigwell]

I agree with Ben, Im not massively experienced or anything but it strikes me speedlites are a cobbled together solution. OK for guys like me  or if you have an idea you want to try out or just want it for occasional location stuff as they wont burn out too quickly and you dont have to fork out for a studio setup.  I had the opposite problem I had cheap membership to a large studio with no lights of my own. So hiring and borrowing.   Speedlites seemed the way to go rather than fork out £2000 for a bowens rig but it isnt a long term studio solution.

[Ken Bennett]

I don't think that speedlights are a "cobbled together solution" --- rather, that a speedlight kit fits a very particular need, and it's NOT basic studio lighting (which is what the original poster needs.)

If you NEED to get a complete 6-light location kit with stands and modifiers inside a carry-on size rolling case, that's not going to happen with monolights. If you need consistent powerful lights (with modeling lights) that can be fired in rapid succession at full power in a studio, then that's not going to happen with speedlights. Horses for courses. I love my speedlight kit for location work in small environments, but I'm hardly going to use it when I need to shoot headshots of 150 incoming law students in 90 minutes.

[NigelC]

I have also been looking at a portable lighting set up with at least 3 lights for mobile portrait/group portrait set-up, but hadn't even considered speedlights. I was thinking of the Elinchrom Ranger kit, which has really compact heads, because they are not monoblocs but have separate portable power unit, and has built in wireless transmitter/receiver.