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Author Topic: The best Portrait Photographer?  (Read 28101 times)

Cfranson

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The best Portrait Photographer?
« Reply #40 on: April 26, 2010, 01:09:06 pm »

Quote from: Chris_Brown
Today: Irving Penn
Perhaps a minor point: Irving Penn died October, 2009.
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fredjeang

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« Reply #41 on: April 26, 2010, 02:41:30 pm »

Quote from: KLaban
Painters do it so much better
Oh well, Klaban, if you take this great master (one of my favorite painters) you put the level to the genious; it is not easy to beat, even in the painting.
Maybe Araki ?
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Rob C

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« Reply #42 on: April 26, 2010, 03:12:06 pm »

Quote from: KLaban
Painters do it so much better




But then, painters never have to prove they are producing art - they just are, even when it's poor art. That instantly gives them a pretty cool advantage. Were a snapper to emulate the Bacon paintings you showed in your link, perhaps by shooting through a distorting glass or into one of those funny mirrors, it would be put down as gimmick. No-win situation?

À propos de nothing relevant - or not - I saw on France24 that the striking Greeks have blocked port access for some tourist returning to their cruise boat; hmmmm, who needs volcanic ash?

Rob C

feppe

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« Reply #43 on: April 26, 2010, 03:15:39 pm »

Quote from: Rob C
But then, painters never have to prove they are producing art - they just are, even when it's poor art. That instantly gives them a pretty cool advantage. Were a snapper to emulate the Bacon paintings you showed in your link, perhaps by shooting through a distorting glass or into one of those funny mirrors, it would be put down as gimmick. No-win situation?

So you're saying this is art?

No flaming please

Abdulrahman Aljabri

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« Reply #44 on: April 26, 2010, 03:17:04 pm »

Folks, this has been a great thread, and the suggestions I have been getting are pretty good, much better than on FM forum.

Regarding the definition of a portrait. Isn't a portrait made to provide the subject with an picture of themselves? Don't most people want the best picture of themselves?

In that sense,  should not the best portrait present the subject in the best way; with the most relaxed and confidant expression and pose. And make use of the best lighting and background to go along with the subject's appearance and clothing. Also to be different enough so it does not look like everyone's else portrait.

Some photographers want to dig deeper and to some how display the inner soul of the subject in the picture but that is not what most people want a portrait for. They just want a portrait to look good. In that sense the best portrait photographer is the one that makes people look their best with the right combination of lighting, pose, expression, background, etc. How you deiced to light the subject, turn their head, how high to have the camera, or how you interact with them and attain their interest are the kind of things that will ultimately make or break the picture. Get all those elements right and that will make an amazing portraits.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2010, 03:27:32 pm by Abdulrahman Aljabri »
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tesfoto

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« Reply #45 on: April 26, 2010, 04:00:26 pm »

Quote from:  Abdulrahman Aljabri
Folks, this has been a great thread, and the suggestions I have been getting are pretty good, much better than on FM forum.

Regarding the definition of a portrait. Isn't a portrait made to provide the subject with an picture of themselves? Don't most people want the best picture of themselves?

In that sense,  should not the best portrait present the subject in the best way; with the most relaxed and confidant expression and pose. And make use of the best lighting and background to go along with the subject's appearance and clothing. Also to be different enough so it does not look like everyone's else portrait.

Some photographers want to dig deeper and to some how display the inner soul of the subject in the picture but that is not what most people want a portrait for. They just want a portrait to look good. In that sense the best portrait photographer is the one that makes people look their best with the right combination of lighting, pose, expression, background, etc. How you deiced to light the subject, turn their head, how high to have the camera, or how you interact with them and attain their interest are the kind of things that will ultimately make or break the picture. Get all those elements right and that will make an amazing portraits.


IMO this is exactly the recipe of boring and unintresting portraiture.


You can get your inspiration from: http://tinyurl.com/3xygezc

OR you can get inspiration from: http://jmcolberg.com/weblog/2008/02/what_m...great_portrait/


It is your choice.....


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tesfoto

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« Reply #46 on: April 26, 2010, 04:10:33 pm »

Quote from: KLaban
Painters do it so much better


Other great classic painters dealing with portrature

Lucian Freud
Frank Auerbach
Alberto Giacometti
Helene Schjerfbeck
Gerhard Richters


IMO great portraiture have to be an artist statement - it needs to say more about that maker of the image than the subject.


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TMARK

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« Reply #47 on: April 26, 2010, 04:17:35 pm »

Quote from:  Abdulrahman Aljabri
Folks, this has been a great thread, and the suggestions I have been getting are pretty good, much better than on FM forum.

Regarding the definition of a portrait. Isn't a portrait made to provide the subject with an picture of themselves? Don't most people want the best picture of themselves?

In that sense,  should not the best portrait present the subject in the best way; with the most relaxed and confidant expression and pose. And make use of the best lighting and background to go along with the subject's appearance and clothing. Also to be different enough so it does not look like everyone's else portrait.

Some photographers want to dig deeper and to some how display the inner soul of the subject in the picture but that is not what most people want a portrait for. They just want a portrait to look good. In that sense the best portrait photographer is the one that makes people look their best with the right combination of lighting, pose, expression, background, etc. How you deiced to light the subject, turn their head, how high to have the camera, or how you interact with them and attain their interest are the kind of things that will ultimately make or break the picture. Get all those elements right and that will make an amazing portraits.

What you describe is a consumer product, which of course has its place, but its not art.
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Tim Lüdin

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« Reply #48 on: April 26, 2010, 04:19:34 pm »

Quote from: tesfoto
Some of these photographers could also be on my other list: Worst Portrait Photographer...... crap but still successfull, you could also add photographers like Michael Grecco etc.


Cheers


TES


Nahh TES, Grecco is not in the same league  
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TMARK

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« Reply #49 on: April 26, 2010, 04:22:26 pm »

Back in 2002 there was a Richter retrospective at MoMA.  It blew me away.  I went back three times, I stayed by myself until the museum closed.  It made me shakey, a little sweaty.  

Freud the Elder is my fav. portrait painter.

I dig the rest of your list as well.

I'd like to add Frank Ochenfels to the list of portrait shooters.  

T  
Quote from: tesfoto
Other great classic painters dealing with portrature

Lucian Freud
Frank Auerbach
Alberto Giacometti
Helene Schjerfbeck
Gerhard Richters


IMO great portraiture have to be an artist statement - it needs to say more about that maker of the image than the subject.
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blansky

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« Reply #50 on: April 26, 2010, 09:02:59 pm »

Quote from:  Abdulrahman Aljabri
Folks, this has been a great thread, and the suggestions I have been getting are pretty good, much better than on FM forum.

Regarding the definition of a portrait. Isn't a portrait made to provide the subject with an picture of themselves? Don't most people want the best picture of themselves?

In that sense,  should not the best portrait present the subject in the best way; with the most relaxed and confidant expression and pose. And make use of the best lighting and background to go along with the subject's appearance and clothing. Also to be different enough so it does not look like everyone's else portrait.

Some photographers want to dig deeper and to some how display the inner soul of the subject in the picture but that is not what most people want a portrait for. They just want a portrait to look good. In that sense the best portrait photographer is the one that makes people look their best with the right combination of lighting, pose, expression, background, etc. How you deiced to light the subject, turn their head, how high to have the camera, or how you interact with them and attain their interest are the kind of things that will ultimately make or break the picture. Get all those elements right and that will make an amazing portraits.

No. That's what I do and what it's called is a NICE portrait. Someone wants me to take a pretty picture of them or of their family or children. What we do after years of experience and training in lighting and posing is produce something that they can show their friends and be proud of.

That however is not a GREAT portrait. It's just a nice one.

Lets say we have an executive and he needs a portrait of him and his fellow executives individually photographed, and he wants his fancy new  office building in the background. We could easily take a nice picture of him, good lighting, dramatic, good flattering pose, etc and do all his people the same way. Every picture would be nice but in essence all the pictures look pretty much the same. They are interchangeable. Well they are nice portraits but not really portraits because they didn't really reveal too much about anybody, they just looked nice.

There are a few things you have to remember. Who is paying the bill is very often the determining factor in what is produced. Lets take a portrait photographer or good photojournalist who is working for some publication. They may be, or should be, trying to take a portrait to show the soul ( I hate that definition but you get the idea) of the subject. The resulting picture may or definitely may not, flatter the subject but may indeed be a true and great portrait. The publication may love it and the subject may hate it.

On the other hand if a photographer is hired by the subject, you can be sure that the portrait needs to be flattering, or your reputation as a portrait photographer will suffer. Obviously the trick is to try to get both elements to align, but very often finances can get into the way. Most people cannot afford to have a photographer hang around them for a day or longer to have the photographer know and understand them enough to get great portraits of them, so we settle for nice.

With us it's usually our personal work is where we work on GREAT and sometimes our clients love them.







Michael
« Last Edit: April 26, 2010, 09:13:22 pm by blansky »
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asf

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« Reply #51 on: April 27, 2010, 12:02:50 am »

Quote from: gwhitf
I know this might seem like heresy, but I think that Scott Schuman has a great style going, with The Sartorialist. I think he's the modern version of a portrait photographer -- mobile camera; fast on his feet; in tune with culture; making connections all day long. When i look back at those very early pictures of Avedon, in the white shirt and the skinny black ties, it sorta feels like the vibe of this Schuman guy. Imagine how many people that he's come into contact with over the years. I'm not saying he's making deeply soulful portraits, but I think he does make nice (yet brief) connections with people. You can see it in their eyes. He reminds me of a young Bill Cunningham.

http://thesartorialist.blogspot.com/

And trust me, read the Comments of his posts. Sometimes, each one numbers over a hundred. And nobody's sitting there obsessing about pixels. They're looking at CONTENT. I think Schuman's got it going on.

(And imagine his line item for Studio Rental and Permits and 7b Rentals and Catering: ZERO! Find some great light, get five minutes with someone, shoot RAW, and be gone. Brilliant!)

Yes, I enjoy his photos, but ultimately they're about the clothes, not portraits of the people.
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Dustbak

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« Reply #52 on: April 27, 2010, 02:31:52 am »

Quote from: tesfoto
Other great classic painters dealing with portrature

Lucian Freud
Frank Auerbach
Alberto Giacometti
Helene Schjerfbeck
Gerhard Richters


IMO great portraiture have to be an artist statement - it needs to say more about that maker of the image than the subject.


How about the greatest of them all? Rembrandt van Rijn? Even today I see many photographs trying to emulate not only his type of lighting but also (maybe even more so) the gorgeous toning that is in many of his paintings.

My favorites change over time, there are many that have made images I really like. To name a few; Annie Leibovitz, Jock Sturges, Sally Mann, Edward Weston, Fazal Sheikh, Stephan van Fleteren, etc..
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tesfoto

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« Reply #53 on: April 27, 2010, 04:15:40 am »

Quote from: Dustbak
How about the greatest of them all? Rembrandt van Rijn? Even today I see many photographs trying to emulate not only his type of lighting but also (maybe even more so) the gorgeous toning that is in many of his paintings.

My favorites change over time, there are many that have made images I really like. To name a few; Annie Leibovitz, Jock Sturges, Sally Mann, Edward Weston, Fazal Sheikh, Stephan van Fleteren, etc..


YES, I saw a Rembrandt exhibition at the Rijks Museum in Amsterdam and it mada an everlasting impression on me.

You have a great tradition of portrature in your Country, in photography I would mention:

Rineke Dijkstra
Hellen van Meene
Koos Breukel
Annaleen Louwes
Bert Teunissen (domestic landscapes portrait)
Sanne Sannes (the erotic portrait, an old favorite, reminds me of Anders Petersens work)

Dustbak, do you happen to know any of these artist in person ?

Cheers

TES
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Dustbak

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« Reply #54 on: April 27, 2010, 04:40:47 am »

Quote from: tesfoto
YES, I saw a Rembrandt exhibition at the Rijks Museum in Amsterdam and it mada an everlasting impression on me.

You have a great tradition of portrature in your Country, in photography I would mention:

Rineke Dijkstra
Hellen van Meene
Koos Breukel
Annaleen Louwes
Bert Teunissen (domestic landscapes portrait)
Sanne Sannes (the erotic portrait, an old favorite, reminds me of Anders Petersens work)

Dustbak, do you happen to know any of these artist in person ?

Cheers

TES

It took me years to start really appreciating the work of him. Only several years ago I started to notice the various toning he uses in his portraits. This is so beautiful and still even with post processing in PS hard to achieve.

Only Hellen van Meene I know personally but not well. She comes from the same city as I do. I like the work of Bert Teunissen. Not sure whether I really like the work of Rineke Dijkstra often I do and sometimes I don't depending on the mood I am in. Frankly almost everybody has work I like, mostly for different reasons. I always try to see the why in images and see the good things in them.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2010, 04:41:02 am by Dustbak »
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tesfoto

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« Reply #55 on: April 27, 2010, 05:32:27 am »

Quote from: Dustbak
My favorites change over time, there are many that have made images I really like. To name a few; Annie Leibovitz, Jock Sturges, Sally Mann, Edward Weston, Fazal Sheikh, Stephan van Fleteren, etc..

Thanks for Stephan van Fleteren, I did not know his work before, I like it a lot and just ordered his book Portret 1989-2009.


Quote from: Dustbak
It took me years to start really appreciating the work of him. Only several years ago I started to notice the various toning he uses in his portraits. This is so beautiful and still even with post processing in PS hard to achieve.

I love the darkness of his portraits - or should I say the dark parts of the portraits, so vivid.


Quote from: Dustbak
Frankly almost everybody has work I like, mostly for different reasons. I always try to see the why in images and see the good things in them.

You are a wise man, I tend to be pissed off by bad work. Perhaps because I care too much......


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Dick Roadnight

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« Reply #56 on: April 27, 2010, 06:04:16 am »

Quote from: KLaban
Painters do it so much better
Now we have Photoshop, and cameras that can produce sharpish two foot by three foot pictures, we have (at last) the tools to "do it" as well as painters.

...is anybody else contemplating tackling the "swagger-portrait" market... and carrying on where the 17/18th century master left off?
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tesfoto

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« Reply #57 on: April 27, 2010, 06:28:59 am »

Quote from: Dick Roadnight
Now we have Photoshop, and cameras that can produce sharpish two foot by three foot pictures, we have (at last) the tools to "do it" as well as painters.

IMO a good portrait has little to do with sharpness.


Quote from: Dick Roadnight
...is anybody else contemplating tackling the "swagger-portrait" market... and carrying on where the 17/18th century master left off?


http://www.charlesfreger.com/


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Rob C

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« Reply #58 on: April 27, 2010, 06:42:25 am »

Quote from: feppe
So you're saying this is art?

No flaming please




I'm thinking: it's a damn good Bacon!

Rob C

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« Reply #59 on: April 27, 2010, 06:44:48 am »

Quote from: blansky
No. That's what I do and what it's called is a NICE portrait. Someone wants me to take a pretty picture of them or of their family or children. What we do after years of experience and training in lighting and posing is produce something that they can show their friends and be proud of.

That however is not a GREAT portrait. It's just a nice one.

Lets say we have an executive and he needs a portrait of him and his fellow executives individually photographed, and he wants his fancy new  office building in the background. We could easily take a nice picture of him, good lighting, dramatic, good flattering pose, etc and do all his people the same way. Every picture would be nice but in essence all the pictures look pretty much the same. They are interchangeable. Well they are nice portraits but not really portraits because they didn't really reveal too much about anybody, they just looked nice.

There are a few things you have to remember. Who is paying the bill is very often the determining factor in what is produced. Lets take a portrait photographer or good photojournalist who is working for some publication. They may be, or should be, trying to take a portrait to show the soul ( I hate that definition but you get the idea) of the subject. The resulting picture may or definitely may not, flatter the subject but may indeed be a true and great portrait. The publication may love it and the subject may hate it.

On the other hand if a photographer is hired by the subject, you can be sure that the portrait needs to be flattering, or your reputation as a portrait photographer will suffer. Obviously the trick is to try to get both elements to align, but very often finances can get into the way. Most people cannot afford to have a photographer hang around them for a day or longer to have the photographer know and understand them enough to get great portraits of them, so we settle for nice.

With us it's usually our personal work is where we work on GREAT and sometimes our clients love them.


Michael


Very realistic summing up of the business.

Rob C
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