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Author Topic: Quality Compact  (Read 22214 times)

Dick Roadnight

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Quality Compact
« on: April 22, 2010, 10:04:59 am »

The Leica M9 ¿no zoom available, not pocket-able, expensive?
Leica X1 No zoom
Leica V 20 no raw, no socket for external flash?
Leica D-lux 4 ¿only feasible option worth considering?
What else is there?

I have a Leica D-Lux 3, but I would like to be able to use my compact with external flash.
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TMARK

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« Reply #1 on: April 22, 2010, 10:32:23 am »

Canon G11.

Quote from: Dick Roadnight
The Leica M9 ¿no zoom available, not pocket-able, expensive?
Leica X1 No zoom
Leica V 20 no raw, no socket for external flash?
Leica D-lux 4 ¿only feasible option worth considering?
What else is there?

I have a Leica D-Lux 3, but I would like to be able to use my compact with external flash.
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Ken Doo

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« Reply #2 on: April 22, 2010, 10:53:43 am »

Panasonic GF1 with interchangeable lenses; micro 4/3 sensor
or Olympus EP2

Just a hair larger than the Canon G series---but much easier to shoot in M or AP, interchangeable lenses, and better image quality.

TMARK

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« Reply #3 on: April 22, 2010, 11:09:13 am »

The EP-2 is real nice.  Forgot about that one.

Quote from: kdphotography
Panasonic GF1 with interchangeable lenses; micro 4/3 sensor
or Olympus EP2

Just a hair larger than the Canon G series---but much easier to shoot in M or AP, interchangeable lenses, and better image quality.
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MichaelEzra

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« Reply #4 on: April 22, 2010, 11:21:30 am »

this is the ultra compact with the brains of Canon G11 - Canon S90 - tiny raw-capable camera.
LR3 gives great results from RAWs and perfect CA correction which is necessary in wide angle range.
very comprehensive manual controls.
I bought this for my wife as a tiny, light and mighty little gadget, though I ended up playing with it more than she does:)
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feppe

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« Reply #5 on: April 22, 2010, 12:48:51 pm »

Quote from: TMARK
The EP-2 is real nice.  Forgot about that one.

So is E-PL1 at significantly lower price, you gain a built-in flash and lose some mostly marginal features to limit cannibalization, and it has excellent build quality. Just skip the kit lens - the Panasonic is much better on most metrics except size and weight, although much more expensive.

I'd recommend checking out samples from S90 and other similar compacts before buying one - I wasn't happy with the IQ and went for the E-PL1.

Doug Peterson

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« Reply #6 on: April 22, 2010, 01:03:59 pm »

Quote from: Dick Roadnight
The Leica M9 ¿no zoom available, not pocket-able, expensive?

Yay! I rarely get to answer a Leica question on this section of the forum even though we are Leica dealers.

There are in fact three zoom lenses depending on how you define "zoom". A 16/18/21 and a 28/35/50

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/...tri-elmar.shtml

The M9 is an outstanding camera. If you haven't held it in your hands and shot with it for a while it's a VERY different camera than most.

Whether it's worth the money only you can decide.

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Fritzer

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« Reply #7 on: April 22, 2010, 03:55:19 pm »

The Panasonic GF1 and Oly E-PL 1 don't have a finder, though, but the Leica is very tempting.
If only it wasn't so grossly overpriced .
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Ken Doo

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« Reply #8 on: April 22, 2010, 05:17:50 pm »

Quote from: Fritzer
The Panasonic GF1 and Oly E-PL 1 don't have a finder, though, but the Leica is very tempting.
If only it wasn't so grossly overpriced .

The GF-1 has an optional EVF (electronic viewfinder) that attaches to the hotshoe.  Oly is similar

eronald

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« Reply #9 on: April 22, 2010, 07:19:54 pm »

Quote from: TMARK
Canon G11.

I just got an S90. It is basically a G11, in a tiny tiny case, with a smaller battery and less (too few, really too few) buttons and a mess of a scroll wheel.

It's a bit of a kludge to use, but it can do those compact camera things like macro with large depth of field or quickly making a readable image of a full sheet newspaper, it can shoot RAW (!) comes with DPP, has a real wide but not much of a tele, can do some video, can do decent hi-ISO, and by the way, did I say it has a kludgy interface but it is really really small?

Doug's favorite Leica M9 is a *real* camera, no doubt about it; it is quite competitive with any 35mm dSLR, at least those I use. However it is useless for those compact camera tricks like macro, cannot do video, won't fit into any of *my* pants pockets  and last not least costs real money.

If anyone here has a suggestion better than

Edmund
« Last Edit: April 22, 2010, 07:29:01 pm by eronald »
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KevinA

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« Reply #10 on: April 28, 2010, 04:27:57 pm »

Quote from: Dick Roadnight
The Leica M9 ¿no zoom available, not pocket-able, expensive?
Leica X1 No zoom
Leica V 20 no raw, no socket for external flash?
Leica D-lux 4 ¿only feasible option worth considering?
What else is there?

I have a Leica D-Lux 3, but I would like to be able to use my compact with external flash.

I thought I wanted a compact to, the idea is appealing a camera with you all the time. I got a Richo with an electronic viewfinder and lots of manual controls. I never use it, to small and fiddley  to make it enjoyable. I would rather take my Canon with just the 35mm f1.4, I find it easier, quicker, more predictable, more versatile and cropped still better than the zoomed pocket camera results. I would rather have a M9 with one lens than a P&S with a zoom.

Kevin.
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narikin

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« Reply #11 on: April 28, 2010, 04:59:14 pm »

Quote from: Dick Roadnight
The Leica M9 ¿no zoom available, not pocket-able, expensive?
Leica X1 No zoom
Leica V 20 no raw, no socket for external flash?
Leica D-lux 4 ¿only feasible option worth considering?
What else is there?

I have a Leica D-Lux 3, but I would like to be able to use my compact with external flash.

you have a bad case of Red Dot Fever!

there are a lot better compact digital cameras out there than what they make. m9 excepted, but thats another kettle of fish.

agree with GF1 and S90 and EP2. all excellent.
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Jack Flesher

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« Reply #12 on: April 28, 2010, 05:03:23 pm »

I've tried several, and the only one that's stuck for more than a few months is the GF1 -- I've head it now for over 6 months, and even added a second body converted to IR and a total of 5 lenses. The basic camera with the very good 14-45 kit lens mounted, fits inside an MF lens slot in your bag. Battery lasts forever, maybe 600 frames.  Awesome little camera with excellent image quality and control layout.
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fredjeang

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Quality Compact
« Reply #13 on: April 28, 2010, 05:46:40 pm »

Why not the modular Ricoh GRX with A12 unit ?
Not kiding.

Also, despite it's slow in operation, the sigmas DP are really interesting and worth a look anyway. I've heard that the latest versions (x) have improved a lot.
Foveon is a nice alternative to have.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2010, 05:51:20 pm by fredjeang »
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jing q

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« Reply #14 on: April 28, 2010, 11:33:27 pm »

Canon S90 gets a big thumbs up.
most of the time you don't need much manual control anyway, but when you need it the S90 has it too.
I had a GF1 and found the image quality was much poorer than an APS-C camera, and not much better than my S90 and way too bulky (the S90 fits into a jeans pocket)

be careful the small buttons though...
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babakBoghraty

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« Reply #15 on: April 29, 2010, 12:09:48 pm »

Doug

I understood that the 28-35-50 M9 lens is no longer available.  Could you clarify your post please.

Babak
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Hywel

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« Reply #16 on: April 29, 2010, 12:24:09 pm »

Quote from: jing q
Canon S90 gets a big thumbs up.
most of the time you don't need much manual control anyway, but when you need it the S90 has it too.
I had a GF1 and found the image quality was much poorer than an APS-C camera, and not much better than my S90 and way too bulky (the S90 fits into a jeans pocket)

Really? I'm surprised. I've been slipping my GF1 on a belt pouch or into a fleece pocket for a few months, and I've been rather impressed with its image quality. Maybe we're shooting radically different subjects (or printing to large sizes, maybe? I hardly print, and never to larger than A3). I've noticed there's more noise in dramatic skies than I'm used to from 5D or H3DII-31 but it looks quite organic and grain-like, and responds well to LR3B2 or Aperture noise removal.

Certainly the image quality is a bit down on my old 5D, but really from such a tiny camera the differences seemed remarkably small. I wouldn't say the GF1 is without flaws (you do need the optional finder or shooting in bright sunlight is very much guesswork, and it isn't quite as pocketable as a true compact) but in terms of image quality bang for small size buck, I was really impressed.

  Cheers, Hywel.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2010, 12:47:42 pm by Hywel »
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arashm

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« Reply #17 on: April 29, 2010, 12:32:29 pm »

Quote from: Dick Roadnight
The Leica M9 ¿no zoom available, not pocket-able, expensive?
Leica X1 No zoom
Leica V 20 no raw, no socket for external flash?
Leica D-lux 4 ¿only feasible option worth considering?
What else is there?

I have a Leica D-Lux 3, but I would like to be able to use my compact with external flash.

well what's your definition of "Compact" or just how compact do you need.
I have the S90, it's really small and I can take it to formal dinners and such with no issue, C1 does a great job with the raw files (I never shoot Jpegs even for snaps)
My Personal camera is the Panasonic GF-1
I think the GF-1 and EP1/2 are really great camera's
If you need one in between maybe the G11
I've had all tree at one point and for me the G11 was redundant so it went away.
Just note that the the GF-1/EP1/2 with a prime is actually not that much bigger than the G11 in reality.
The Lumix 20/1.7 is also great and at F2.0 produces very nice shallow depth of field.

As for the M9, well to me that's a whole other system and whole other kettle of fish...
Also as a x-owner of a sigma DP-1 I do have to say that the camera produces really beautiful files, but it's definately not a easy, take along, capture the moment kinda camera ( to me ).
good luck.
am

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gwhitf

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« Reply #18 on: April 29, 2010, 12:44:13 pm »

Quote from: arashm
the camera produces really beautiful files, but it's definately not a easy, take along, capture the moment kinda camera ( to me ).

Don't take this wrong. This is to no one in particular. Every time I pick up one of these tiny little cameras, they seem cool in the beginning, but then you go to actually use them, and the controls are very hard to master, (way too many), and the viewfinder experience is beyond horrible. In short, has anyone on the planet ever shot a memorable photograph with one of these cameras? Or are they relegated to simply grip and grin snapshots, or drunk party shots? The shutter delay on this little location-scouting camera that I have is horrid; i think it's called a Fuji f100 or something. Great quality files, but the experience of actually making a photograph is so bad.

Can anyone speak to this? I'd love a great small pocket camera, but the ones people rave about, I just never seem to ever connect with. Thoughts?
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bcooter

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« Reply #19 on: April 29, 2010, 01:04:08 pm »

Quote from: gwhitf
Don't take this wrong. This is to no one in particular. Every time I pick up one of these tiny little cameras, they seem cool in the beginning, but then you go to actually use them, and the controls are very hard to master, (way too many), and the viewfinder experience is beyond horrible. In short, has anyone on the planet ever shot a memorable photograph with one of these cameras? Or are they relegated to simply grip and grin snapshots, or drunk party shots? The shutter delay on this little location-scouting camera that I have is horrid; i think it's called a Fuji f100 or something. Great quality files, but the experience of actually making a photograph is so bad.

Can anyone speak to this? I'd love a great small pocket camera, but the ones people rave about, I just never seem to ever connect with. Thoughts?

I have the panasonic gf1 (I think that's what it's called) the thing that looks like a rangefinder and you use the lcd.

I used it on a project, along with a Leica M-8 and the files are good, equal to the Leicas, almost dead equal.

The things it does well are somewhat astonishing, face recognition, change the view to 4:3 etc, different picture looks.

The things it does bad, or as you would say the experience is just miserable.  The menu on the camera takes a full day to learn and it's not intuitive.

The view of what you see vs. what you get can be variable and overall it's so damn small it takes nothing to hit the wrong button or switch.

I really believe it would take a full week of shooting to get to the point where it doesn't require a moment's hesitation to decide what you want to do with it.

It also has one of those dreaded zoom lenses that when you change the focal length the f stop changes. I bought the 40mm pancake lens, but don't really use it, though it does go to 1.7

Now on the other hand the Leica M8 I have is just the opposite.  It's dead ass simple, move an f stop, move a shutter focus and take a picture.

Trying to figure out the crop lines on the leica is not easy, longer lenses make the view tiny, but overall as far as the taking/making a photograph the leica is a real camera.

I'd get an M9 if I thought i would use it more.

But as far as pocket cameras there is nothing out there that matches the Terry Richardson Yashica, at least nothing I know about.

BC

P.S.   I also looked at the Olympus EP something camera and though the focus was awful, the camera is beautiful.  Didn't buy it though, but now kind of wish I did.
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