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Author Topic: Questions for Arca-Swiss?  (Read 12417 times)

pcox

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« on: April 19, 2010, 04:10:53 pm »

Hi folks -
I'm in Besançon right now, and will be meeting with Martin Vogt of Arca-Swiss in the morning.

The reason for my visit it to inspect and possibly purchase an RM3D for use with a P45+.

Anyone have any questions they'd like answered while I'm at it? I'll check this post before the meeting.

Cheers,
Peter
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Jack Flesher

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« Reply #1 on: April 19, 2010, 04:31:59 pm »

Yeah. Ask them in this day and age why the heck they don't maintain a website!
« Last Edit: April 19, 2010, 04:32:58 pm by Jack Flesher »
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CBarrett

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« Reply #2 on: April 19, 2010, 04:32:34 pm »

Quote from: pcox
Hi folks -
I'm in Besançon right now, and will be meeting with Martin Vogt of Arca-Swiss in the morning.

The reason for my visit it to inspect and possibly purchase an RM3D for use with a P45+.

Anyone have any questions they'd like answered while I'm at it? I'll check this post before the meeting.

Cheers,
Peter

That's funny, mine was actually supposed to ship tomorrow... Stupid Volcano!
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pcox

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« Reply #3 on: April 19, 2010, 04:38:52 pm »

Jack -

Quote from: Jack Flesher
Yeah. Ask them in this day and age why the heck they don't maintain a website!

I actually asked this already - here's the response I got via email:

Quote
Referring to our (not yet existing) Homepage I regret to inform you that the reason is not really
that interesting; we are not against the Internet, we work with film- and digital backs, use cars and even airplanes etc...
Its simply a question of Time. We are a pretty small company in the industry and produce six different types of tripod head lines with their accessories,
furthermore do we produce around 50 different camera models from 6x9 up to 8x10" all with their accessories and all can be somewhat custom configured.
So we do have by far the largest camera program available today plus a considerable amount of tripod heads.
But the real problem is that we bring out new products much faster than any company we compete. Within the last 9 month I believe we brought out the following
products.

New Monoball Z series tripod heads
M two MF and M two DSLR cameras
Mamiya L-bracket
Monoball p0 tripod head line
Slidefix camera plate line
Universal L-bracket classic
Universal L -bracket SlideFix
Pentacon & lens adapter plate
Hasselblad  classic lenses adapter plate
E-module for R-Line
Lens shade and hand grip extension for all R-Line cameras
New RL3D 4x5" camera
any some other parts.

So essentially to photograph all different version of above products and its use, means to us to make about 1000-1200 images
only to show new products from the last 9 months. Thats where we struggle and are behind. The page itself is quiet finished but we need to fill in
some content which is up-to-date. We should be soon ready to start the first sections of our page I however cannot give you an exact date.

Clearly there's more to it than that - websites are a lot of work, but everyone else has one, and has for years. I'll see if I can get any clarification and even a timeframe as it looks like they're making one right now.

Cheers,
Peter
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aaron

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« Reply #4 on: April 19, 2010, 05:21:38 pm »

Apologies for going off topic Peter, but have you decided to part with your Hasselblad system in favour of the p45 ?
If so, whats your thinking behind the move?

Thanks,

Aaron
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pcox

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« Reply #5 on: April 20, 2010, 01:05:48 am »

Aaron -
No problem. I don't have a Hasselblad system - I was shooting with Canon gear before. Perhaps you're thinking of Enda Cavanagh? He uses a H3D-39 (and still does).

The reason I went with Phase One instead of Hasselblad is primarily because with a Phase One system the back is self powered, so using it with a technical camera doesn't require tethering to work. Enda has the devil's own time doing landscape work with his Hasselblad/Cambo combo because he needs the laptop in the field as well.

Plus with the new Macbooks no longer having a replaceable battery (a boneheaded move on Apple's part), it means you can't do extended field work away from power any more.

Cheers,
Peter

Quote from: aaron
Apologies for going off topic Peter, but have you decided to part with your Hasselblad system in favour of the p45 ?
If so, whats your thinking behind the move?

Thanks,

Aaron
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schaubild

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« Reply #6 on: April 20, 2010, 02:54:31 am »


How about some images from the factory?  

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Streetshooter

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« Reply #7 on: April 20, 2010, 03:47:14 am »

Quote from: pcox
Hi folks -
I'm in Besançon right now, and will be meeting with Martin Vogt of Arca-Swiss in the morning.

The reason for my visit it to inspect and possibly purchase an RM3D for use with a P45+.

Anyone have any questions they'd like answered while I'm at it? I'll check this post before the meeting.

Cheers,
Peter

Peter,

Ask them how the hell do they expect customers to find out about their products. A web site doesn't cost that much to maintain. Their stuff is not that cheap either.  I'm puzzled ........

Pete
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ced

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« Reply #8 on: April 20, 2010, 04:20:26 am »

Give them fond regards!
cedric
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geesbert

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« Reply #9 on: April 20, 2010, 07:44:23 am »

Quote from: ced
We are a pretty small company

most photographers are one man shows, working day and night and still they have a website. I presume the revenue from selling ten or twenty cameras more a year would get them a nice website, properly maintained.
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BJNY

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« Reply #10 on: April 20, 2010, 10:11:22 am »

Quote from: geesbert
most photographers are one man shows, working day and night and still they have a website. I presume the revenue from selling ten or twenty cameras more a year would get them a nice website, properly maintained.


Isn't Alpa a three-person operation?
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Guillermo

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« Reply #11 on: April 20, 2010, 10:24:54 am »

[!--quoteo(post=0:date=:name=Arca)--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE (Arca)[div class=\'quotemain\'][!--quotec--]But the real problem is that we bring out new products much faster than any company we compete.[/quote]

What product ?
If it's not online, it doesn't exist.

Seriously, as I have to browse distributor and reseller websites for - usually outdated and incomplete - product information, I gave up on Arca products some time ago ; but that's just me.
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aaron

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« Reply #12 on: April 20, 2010, 05:36:21 pm »

Ah, i must have had my wires crossed Peter!

Good luck with the RM3D, would love to hear your thoughts on it. It would be an incredible steup with the P45+.

Aaron.


Quote from: pcox
Aaron -
No problem. I don't have a Hasselblad system - I was shooting with Canon gear before. Perhaps you're thinking of Enda Cavanagh? He uses a H3D-39 (and still does).

The reason I went with Phase One instead of Hasselblad is primarily because with a Phase One system the back is self powered, so using it with a technical camera doesn't require tethering to work. Enda has the devil's own time doing landscape work with his Hasselblad/Cambo combo because he needs the laptop in the field as well.

Plus with the new Macbooks no longer having a replaceable battery (a boneheaded move on Apple's part), it means you can't do extended field work away from power any more.

Cheers,
Peter
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epatsellis

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« Reply #13 on: April 20, 2010, 09:18:54 pm »

"So essentially to photograph all different version of above products and its use, means to us to make about 1000-1200 images
only to show new products from the last 9 months. Thats where we struggle and are behind. The page itself is quiet finished but we need to fill in
some content which is up-to-date. We should be soon ready to start the first sections of our page I however cannot give you an exact date."


So, we're to accept the fact that A-S, a company that makes photographic equipment and markets to working professionals (and priced accordingly), including product shooters, can't be bothered to at least shoot reference images that are representative of typical configurations? While Sinar has been slowly moving away from film based shooters, they still offer products, have info on their website and market to pros, as well as well heeled amateurs. I have my issues with the U.S. distributor (should it really take 4 weeks and an email to the CEO of a company to get a call back just to order $100 worth of parts???), the fact that they still support existing shooters, and make alot of information available on line is laudable.
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pcox

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« Reply #14 on: April 21, 2010, 02:20:55 am »

Hi folks -
I'm on the ferry home from France after a fairly exhausting trip down to Arca-Swiss. All told my travel time on this expedition was more than 50 hours, although it being a ferry I was able to sleep for the two nights involved.

For all that, I had three and a half hours at their facility before having to race back to Cherbourg. I wish it had been longer, Martin Vogt is a fantastic guy and very passionate about his products. I didn't get a chance to see the factory - there simply wasn't time.

I asked him again about the website and why it's taken them this long to get it online. The stated reason was that they wanted to do the job themselves, in-house. This is very much a family business - Martin himself checks all lenses for correct calibration before they leave the factory - so I can understand the desire to build the website without reliance on an outside contractor.

It's been delayed because the person assigned to the job had to go on leave for personal reasons and the project stalled. Martin was somewhat sheepish about this, as the whole idea of doing it in-house was to make it a faster and easier process.

However, the website is in a state close to completion - Martin showed it to me and it looks to be well-designed and thorough, although I only had a few moments to see it.

My opinion is that even though they're working on it, this project should have been started and finished years ago. It does show a certain short-sightedness that it's taken this long. I don't for a moment believe that - as some people in this thread as well as others have hinted - that they're in any way elitist about it. Just that they were short-sighted and chose to put it on the back burner.

As to the comment of photographers being one-man operations and having websites - a photographer's website is a lot easier to maintain than one where many different physical products are produced, and most/all of which can be used together. It does really produce a staggering weight of images required for any change or addition to the line. This isn't an excuse for not having done something before now, but it's certainly not a trivial operation to produce and maintain a good comprehensive site of this type. Take it from someone who knows, having worked in that sector for many years.

Anyway, due to time constraints, I didn't visit ALPA as planned. I visited Arca-Swiss instead as I felt that it was the system that most closely fit my requirements - the fact the camera has tilt and that they're based in the EU were big considerations (I didn't have to pay VAT, which would have been necessary if I'd bought from Switzerland). I left there yesterday with an RM3D and Schneider 24mm & 35mm Apo-Digitar XL lenses. I sort of took Martin by surprise as he didn't expect me to buy then and there (as he knew of my original intention to compare with ALPA). As a result, they didn't have an E-Module I could take with me, nor was there a Cube ready. Those will follow me by courier.

As far as focusing the camera goes, it's really not feasible to do so on the ground glass and they don't recommend you try. Focusing is done entirely by distance measurement, and the extremely precise helical focus ring makes this a pleasure. So the E-Module and/or a laser rangefinder are really required. The reason the E-Module is ultrasonic rather than a laser is twofold - primarily it's a safety issue (Martin had visions of portrait photographers blinding their subjects with a laser), but secondarily it's because on a bright day it's difficult or impossible to see the red dot of a laser pointer in the landscape.

I'm in two minds about the E-Module. Having seen it in operation, you can make up for the lack of spot readings (it has a 15 degree arc of measurement) by scanning it across the composition - this will show you the range of distances involved. I'll use it for a while by itself, but I see a laser rangefinder in my future to supplement it.

The Cube was something of an impulse buy. Martin was using one for his demonstrations of the camera and I was hugely impressed by the ease of use and precision it offered. It's also a beautiful piece of engineering from an aesthetic point of view. My one concern was how it would fare in dusty or sandy environments and he said it wouldn't be an issue. Because the moving parts are not spinning fast like an engine, and that it's made of hard metal - there's really no damage that sand can do to it. And because in the fully open position all gear meshes are accessible, it's trivially easy to clean if sand does get in the works. Just hose it down.

One problem I see is that my Really Right Stuff L plates are about 1mm wider than the standard Arca plate, so with the Cube adjusted properly for those plates, the RM3D might not be fully secured. This could be a real pain, although I won't be able to ascertain how much of a problem it is until the Cube is delivered. At worst I'll have to ditch the RRS plates in favour of Arca plates - which I don't want to do.

What's the point of having a standard plate design if third parties don't stick to the specification? Anyone from RRS care to comment?

Anyway, that's the long and short of it. I'll be posting a review online in the weeks to come after I've had a chance to use the camera in the field. I'm off to Iceland next week on my volcano workshop, for which I plan to use the RM3D as my primary camera - so there'll be plenty of real-world use to talk about.

Cheers,
Peter
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Dustbak

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« Reply #15 on: April 21, 2010, 02:29:47 am »

Quote from: epatsellis
"So essentially to photograph all different version of above products and its use, means to us to make about 1000-1200 images
only to show new products from the last 9 months. Thats where we struggle and are behind. The page itself is quiet finished but we need to fill in
some content which is up-to-date. We should be soon ready to start the first sections of our page I however cannot give you an exact date."


So, we're to accept the fact that A-S, a company that makes photographic equipment and markets to working professionals (and priced accordingly), including product shooters, can't be bothered to at least shoot reference images that are representative of typical configurations? While Sinar has been slowly moving away from film based shooters, they still offer products, have info on their website and market to pros, as well as well heeled amateurs. I have my issues with the U.S. distributor (should it really take 4 weeks and an email to the CEO of a company to get a call back just to order $100 worth of parts???), the fact that they still support existing shooters, and make alot of information available on line is laudable.


Yeah. It would also be nice when Sinar starts replying on emails. I guess that comes right after having a website

I agree. In this day & age there is no excuse for a professional party not to have a website or communicate via electronic means with their customers. I also find it somewhat insulting to sell to photographers but not go the distance of hiring one to photograph their products. Doing business is like communication, a bi-directional process.

Same applies for hiring a web developer. There is no excuse to built it themselves. It is time wasted that could have been spend on their products or client service for that matter.

Ah well. Pot & kettle. I have been like this myself too. It is all too easy to think you can or have to do it yourself without realizing that you should spend your time doing things you are good at and improving that. The other idea of saving money is a similar sort of pitfall.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2010, 02:34:45 am by Dustbak »
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tesfoto

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« Reply #16 on: April 21, 2010, 04:08:14 am »

Quote from: pcox
One problem I see is that my Really Right Stuff L plates are about 1mm wider than the standard Arca plate, so with the Cube adjusted properly for those plates, the RM3D might not be fully secured. This could be a real pain, although I won't be able to ascertain how much of a problem it is until the Cube is delivered. At worst I'll have to ditch the RRS plates in favour of Arca plates - which I don't want to do.

What's the point of having a standard plate design if third parties don't stick to the specification? Anyone from RRS care to comment?


I just changed the Arca clamp with a RRS BAII on my Cube head:

http://reallyrightstuff.com/rrs/Customkiti...II%2DM6&eq=

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pcox

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« Reply #17 on: April 21, 2010, 04:17:13 am »

Thanks for the information, I was thinking about one of those. Of course that presents a problem with the RM3D - it has an Arca plate on it, which would then be too narrow for the lever release to work reliably.

Peter

Quote from: tesfoto
I just changed the Arca clamp with a RRS BAII on my Cube head:

http://reallyrightstuff.com/rrs/Customkiti...II%2DM6&eq=
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CBarrett

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« Reply #18 on: April 21, 2010, 09:05:08 am »

Peter, that Rm3d better not have come out of a box with "Christopher Barrett, USA" on the shipping label!!!  Congratz, man.  I'm sure you're going to enjoy it.  Now what I find odd, and Martin was surprised when I told him this, is that having used their demo unit for nearly a week, I had no issues achieving very good focus on the ground glass.  Sometimes I would fudge it just a hair after viewing on the laptop, but I was always REALLY close and often dead on.  Actually, I suspect that once you get to know your lenses, you'll be able to look at a scene and know about where to place the focus on the dial.  Doing landscapes, you may just be able to always leave your's near Zero (infinity).

European flights are up to 40%, hopefully things will start shipping out of France soon!

CB
« Last Edit: April 21, 2010, 09:06:36 am by CBarrett »
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pcox

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« Reply #19 on: April 21, 2010, 05:45:48 pm »

Chris -
No, we used your RM3D to demonstrate that technical cameras don't make good frisbees =)

I just tried focusing using a loupe and the ground glass and was unable to identify the point of best focus with any accuracy, and I don't have a bad eye. I'll be sticking with the rangefinder =)

I've decided to change the order and drop the E-Module, and return the 24mm Schneider XL. In their place I'll get the Rodenstock 23mm HR - it's damned expensive, but what's the point of having a technical camera if you can't do much in the way of movements?

Also fixed (temporarily) the problem with the RM3D plate being too loose in my RRS lever clamp - just adding a bit of packing foam in the clamp with the plate makes it secure. Should suffice for the Iceland trip, but I'll have to reevaluate the whole attachment hardware thing across all my cameras when I get back. Either move to RRS screw clamps or switch everything to the Arca-Swiss L-plates (which frankly I don't care for based on the glimpse I had of one at the factory).

Cheers,
Peter

Quote from: CBarrett
Peter, that Rm3d better not have come out of a box with "Christopher Barrett, USA" on the shipping label!!!  Congratz, man.  I'm sure you're going to enjoy it.  Now what I find odd, and Martin was surprised when I told him this, is that having used their demo unit for nearly a week, I had no issues achieving very good focus on the ground glass.  Sometimes I would fudge it just a hair after viewing on the laptop, but I was always REALLY close and often dead on.  Actually, I suspect that once you get to know your lenses, you'll be able to look at a scene and know about where to place the focus on the dial.  Doing landscapes, you may just be able to always leave your's near Zero (infinity).

European flights are up to 40%, hopefully things will start shipping out of France soon!

CB
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