the new apple cinema screens

[Doug Peterson]

On the subject of calibration, I have just discovered that an i1 display 2 just doesn't cut it with an Eizo CG222W. I got a nasty pink cast which didn't go away until I profiled it with an i1 Pro. My i1 display may be broken, but I have wasted enough time. It's for the rubbish bin.

Were you using Eizo's Color Navigator software? If not then that was the problem, not the calibrator.

When calibrating an Eizo you should use their own software so that the corrections are being made to the Eizo's response rather than the output of the computer. Long (technical) story short: use Color Navigator not the software that came with your hardware puck.

Doug Peterson
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[Wayne Fox]

Calibrating an iMac is an exercise in frustration. You can't get it dark enough

No longer true with the current iMacs ... easy to get the right luminosity.  While not a perfect workstation, iMacs aren't bad, and even the glossy screen is really a non-issue if you are working in an appropriately dim room.  Hard to even see any difference if compared to an anti-glare screen in a totally black room.

Under most bright conditions, the glossy screen is actually better, as it is pretty hard to see reflections with normal documents on the screen and the screens are just brighter.  I can use my current macbook when riding in a car much easier than my previous ones.  As far as bright sunlight, neither works very well, but the matt one can be better if you have some way to use a hood around it.

the main reason I bring this up is the thread title seems to be misstated, the OP was interested in an imac, not a cinema display.  thus he is looking at a $1600 investment for an entire computer, quite a bit different than $2500 for a display only.  The iMac is functional and printed output can be just fine unless there is some color critical component to it (reproducing artwork, product shots,  etc.).  

Certainly not the perfect solution, if searching for the best setup, there are much better options.

[klane]

Wow...I didnt know the NEC 3090 was down to $1900...going to retire the 23" ACD (which has been quite stable actually) and purchase the NEC later this month. Thanks for the link.

[vandevanterSH]

What Willem said... And actually, it's been discounted -- it's now around $1900 with the puck and Spectaview software.

Thanks..just ordered one..:>)

Steve

[Jeff-Grant]

Once you've worked on an built-only-for-color-critical-proofing Eizo it's really hard to go back to general-purpose monitors.

Doug,

I'm delighted that we can violently agree on this.

Cheers,

Jeff

[Guy Mancuso]

Thanks..just ordered one..:>)

Steve

 I spotted it about 3 weeks ago , told Jack he ordered one, Bob ordered one than I did. Been watching this monitor since it came out but this is like a 500 dollar savings when brought to market. I'm surprised they still have them in stock. Best price I have seen out there. Not a great web machine but for real work and printing hard to beat. 30 inch Eizo is just a little out of reach right now.

[pschefz]

the new imacs have completely different screens then even the last generation....much better...still glossy but actually really nice...

my own opinion about screens and calibration (after years of way more detailed experience then i would like) is that in the end what is important is how it looks on paper....and no screen has ever given me that....very close in terms of color (and everything else) but there is always a difference between a backlit image and one on paper with texture....
i am using a 3 year old lacie now after using eizos (because they are the best, whatever that means)....i never was too happy with the eizos, the lacie is great, i am sure the latest technology is much much much better but i know that A: it won't improve the DR of paper and B: the person watching on the dell (no offence) isn't calibrated so who knows what the skintone looks like....

all i know is that the new 27" imac i7 is about 2000$, is faster then most last gen towers, the screen looks AMAZING (you almost forget that it is glossy:)....) so the value is really hard to beat....i know, i know...no esata....and that glossy thing...i actually think that it is the worst at the apple store (because they are so bright) i have seen several out in the wild (not outside of course) and i honestly completely forgot that the screens are actually glossy....

[eronald]

Although Eizo may seem to be pricey, you don't need a top-notch Eizo monitor to have a very accurate color rendition after calibration. Plus they come with long warranty.
I've heard bad things about 30" cinema displays so be careful (greenish color cast at the edge, inconsistent lighting of the screen).

As Eizo-Nanao has become better known and has accomodated the moving-image market, it has been getting harder and harder to find an Eizo model that is stellar rather than just good; on the other hand, the new 24" iMacs have IPS panels (good viewing angle) and a decent reputation.

Edmund

[tho_mas]

As Eizo-Nanao has become better known and has accomodated the moving-image market, it has been getting harder and harder to find an Eizo model that is stellar rather than just good

true. The (relatively) moderate priced CG displays have sample variation... when I bought mine back then I had temporarily 3 copies standing around here as the first one had bad uniformity, the second had some pixel errors and finally the third was good. I've seen around 10 of the same monitors (CG241W) over the time and they all had an issue here or there. Nothing serious, but that's certainly not "high end" (but "high end", like a CG221 or a Spectra View Reference, is naturally more expensive).
Then again it was no trouble at all to exchange the monitors... Eizo handled it really quick and easy.
However, my next display will be a Quato for sure... they hand pick the panels and quality control is exemplary. Uniformity is excellent. They are also extremely good linearized. But as long as my current Eizo will do fine there's no hurry.

[vandevanterSH]

Not a great web machine but for real work and printing hard to beat. 30 inch Eizo is just a little out of reach right now.
**********
The NEC will just fit next to the 30" CHD...Pure luck, I didn't measure before I hit the order button...

Steve

[marc gerritsen]

No longer true with the current iMacs ... easy to get the right luminosity.  While not a perfect workstation, iMacs aren't bad, and even the glossy screen is really a non-issue if you are working in an appropriately dim room.  Hard to even see any difference if compared to an anti-glare screen in a totally black room.

Under most bright conditions, the glossy screen is actually better, as it is pretty hard to see reflections with normal documents on the screen and the screens are just brighter.  I can use my current macbook when riding in a car much easier than my previous ones.  As far as bright sunlight, neither works very well, but the matt one can be better if you have some way to use a hood around it.

the main reason I bring this up is the thread title seems to be misstated, the OP was interested in an imac, not a cinema display.  thus he is looking at a $1600 investment for an entire computer, quite a bit different than $2500 for a display only.  The iMac is functional and printed output can be just fine unless there is some color critical component to it (reproducing artwork, product shots,  etc.).  

Certainly not the perfect solution, if searching for the best setup, there are much better options.

that was helpful Wayne, thanks
I think that the imac is up to speed to deal with mdb raw files, as my macbook pro is, although not for trailblazing!
to buy 4 mac pro towers + screens for everyone in the office is too much (even for me, Willem!)
we have an eizo screen in the office so we can always use it to proof the final image that goes to media or client
cheers
m

[eronald]

true. The (relatively) moderate priced CG displays have sample variation... when I bought mine back then I had temporarily 3 copies standing around here as the first one had bad uniformity, the second had some pixel errors and finally the third was good. I've seen around 10 of the same monitors (CG241W) over the time and they all had an issue here or there. Nothing serious, but that's certainly not "high end" (but "high end", like a CG221 or a Spectra View Reference, is naturally more expensive).
Then again it was no trouble at all to exchange the monitors... Eizo handled it really quick and easy.
However, my next display will be a Quato for sure... they hand pick the panels and quality control is exemplary. Uniformity is excellent. They are also extremely good linearized. But as long as my current Eizo will do fine there's no hurry.

What Eizo-Nanao have done is build up the CG label as a premium-in-premium brand that had no rivals and now they are using this established brand to sell cheaper panels. It brings in money, so I guess it must be good strategy, right?

In the end, photographers who are not color specialists might do well in just buying 24" iMacs and skipping the whole separate-screen thing. I got an uncalibrated 17" MacBook Pro and a calibrated 15"  both with matte screens, and I use an Argyll print profiling suite which I assembled myself driving a big Barbieri, and Monaco Profiler with a DTP70, and I get not perfect but decent screen to print matches everywhere, more than good enough for my fine art work. Epson's canned black and white mode works well with the 3880 and their own papers, and again the laptop screens give me a decent preview although as always exact shadow tone appreciation is hard. Based on this I'd say that of you're lucky enough to have bought a laptop with a working screen, you can have a good closed-loop workflow with canned profiles, and skip buying anything more expensive than a screen calibrator. And, by the way, I consider my i1Display2 to be defective; the i1Pros I own work well.

Edmund

[marc gerritsen]

What Eizo-Nanao have done is build up the CG label as a premium-in-premium brand that had no rivals and now they are using this established brand to sell cheaper panels. It brings in money, so I guess it must be good strategy, right?

In the end, photographers who are not color specialists might do well in just buying 24" iMacs and skipping the whole separate-screen thing. I got an uncalibrated 17" MacBook Pro and a calibrated 15"  both with matte screens, and I use an Argyll print profiling suite which I assembled myself driving a big Barbieri, and Monaco Profiler with a DTP70, and I get not perfect but decent screen to print matches everywhere, more than good enough for my fine art work. Epson's canned black and white mode works well with the 3880 and their own papers, and again the laptop screens give me a decent preview although as always exact shadow tone appreciation is hard. Based on this I'd say that of you're lucky enough to have bought a laptop with a working screen, you can have a good closed-loop workflow with canned profiles, and skip buying anything more expensive than a screen calibrator. And, by the way, I consider my i1Display2 to be defective; the i1Pros I own work well.

Edmund

thanks Edmund
would your set up work for media print website etc etc?
as I understand you designed a great set up for in-house printing but what about the rest?
cheers
m

[gwhitf]

Interesting article on an Apple patent, regarding RGB and CMYK reproduction issues.

http://industry.bnet.com/technology/100071...rcial-graphics/

[eronald]

thanks Edmund
would your set up work for media print website etc etc?
as I understand you designed a great set up for in-house printing but what about the rest?
cheers
m

Mark,

 Once you get serious, there are the usual suspects (Eizo, Quato, NEC etc) but I think a recent iMac with an IPS screen  is probably good enough for anything but the most color-critical soft-proofing, as you probably won't have access to a super-accurate  press profile anyway. I use an Eizo when I need to check something really important.


Edmund