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Author Topic: H4D-40: Sample files  (Read 45030 times)

BJNY

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H4D-40: Sample files
« Reply #100 on: March 31, 2010, 01:29:52 pm »

Quote from: Streetshooter
I think the only people impressed by these promo videos using well known photographers to sing the praises of a new piece of equipment are the 'dentist' and rich amateur customers. Far more useful would be a set of short informative YouTube videos. Also do these guys really use the equipment they promote or are they getting paid to say they do. I've just got back from India and saw Steve McCurry working for the best part of a week and all he had hanging off his shoulder was a Nikon D3s........

Pete

It's a market that can't be ignored by the manufacturers, proven by the popularity of all the workshops and forums.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2010, 01:39:27 pm by BJNY »
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Guillermo

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« Reply #101 on: March 31, 2010, 01:34:49 pm »

Quote from: Streetshooter
Also do these guys really use the equipment they promote or are they getting paid to say they do. I've just got back from India and saw Steve McCurry working for the best part of a week and all he had hanging off his shoulder was a Nikon D3s........

McCurry must need a break after all those travels around the world with that Hasselblad. He had to get home and sit down and crop all those images down to 24x36 proportion, I guess. He must be exhausted.

http://stevemccurry.wordpress.com/
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Streetshooter

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« Reply #102 on: March 31, 2010, 01:59:30 pm »

Quote from: gwhitf
McCurry must need a break after all those travels around the world with that Hasselblad. He had to get home and sit down and crop all those images down to 24x36 proportion, I guess. He must be exhausted.

http://stevemccurry.wordpress.com/

I think he was conducting a workshop whilst he was there. One of his students was using a Hasselblad H3d or whatever, but he had two assistants carrying his gear for him. One for the cameras and one for the Profoto lighting set up that he lit every shot with. To be honest it's a great camera but probably not the ideal street camera, unless you can afford to drag two assistants around with you.

When I say student, I mean a mature student. Probably a Dentist or a Surgeon.......

As things have gotten tougher I think established Name Photographers make more money from these Workshops, Seminars and Portfolio Reviews than they do from actually shooting. I suppose we can all be grateful these rich amateur photographers can afford to buy this expensive gear otherwise it wouldn't be available for us to buy too.
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bcooter

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H4D-40: Sample files
« Reply #103 on: March 31, 2010, 02:18:41 pm »

Quote from: Streetshooter
I think the only people impressed by these promo videos using well known photographers to sing the praises of a new piece of equipment are the 'dentist' and rich amateur customers. Far more useful would be a set of short informative YouTube videos. Also do these guys really use the equipment they promote or are they getting paid to say they do. I've just got back from India and saw Steve McCurry working for the best part of a week and all he had hanging off his shoulder was a Nikon D3s........

Pete


I find nothing wrong with them selling to hobbyists, in fact if they sell a lot to this market it should help lower the cost to professionals.

I actually don't take exception to those promo videos because it's just another way for a photographer and a camera maker to advertise themselves.  

What I think, and obviously this is just my opinion, is to sell me any expensive camera I need more assurances about the complete package.

Sure, before I write the final check I'll test it myself, in my own real life style and workflow, but before I waste any time on any of these systems anymore, I'd like to know a few basics that are never addressed in any of these videos.

1.  Does the software start fast, either tethered or non tethered.

2.  When tethering is the software stable, can you shoot more than 100 images to a folder without crashing?

3. When the cord disconnects (all cords eventually get stepped on or disconnect) how long does it take to restart the process, does it require a complete computer restart, or does it just connect when you plug it back in?

4.  What is the total costs, not just a cost of a camera and lens, but the real costs.  Does it require a huge tower and graphics card to work fast, how large are the raw files, are lenses (with the correct firmware) available for sale in every major market.

5.  What's the deal with this two raw file format thing?  If I shoot non tethered, for any reason, do I absolutely have to ingest the files in focus to make a fff file?  Do I have to save the 3fr files for safety's sake, is there any instances of file corruption from the conversion of 3fr to fff and if so is there any software for recovery?

6.  What about pattern moire, cause that's a deal killer in non aa filtered cameras.  Some things can be fixed easily some can take a thousand dollars in retouching.

7.  How completely stable is the whole process, working under pressure with a room full of demanding, tapping their toes clients?

8.  What does the image on the lcd look like.  Does it compare to a Canon, a Nikon can I see enough subtleties in light and tone to make decisions, or is it just a rough reference of the image?  Does it work in bright sunlight?

And now my final question and I'm very serious about this.

If I decide to by an hd40 or whatever it's called, and sell off my 4 contax's and 2 phase backs, a p31+ and a p21+ WILL I SEE A DIFFERENCE IN THE FINAL FILE?  Not a pixel peeping put a loupe on a 30" monitor difference but are the skin tones better, the color response prettier and not so Phase blotchy exact?

In other words will it make prettier, more reliable photos?  

Any one of those 8 questions that come in as a negative can cost me six figures very quickly or make me put the camera in a bag and pick up the Canons.  I'm not going that route anymore where $50,000 worth of cameras set on the shelf while I shoot with cameras costing 1/3 of that.

I know I can and might test it myself, but before I even go to the point of this I'd like those questions answered either in video on just in writing.

My day's of free beta testing are 100% over.  I don't need a 30% off deal on a new camera, what I need/want/desire is a prettier photograph with less workflow not more.

Right now we're in the process of testing a RED.   I think the 5d2 for video is a little mushy,  a little soft and has a lot of workarounds, though for the price it's an amazing camera.

The thing is when testing the RED if I even think for one moment that their software crashes my computer, the camera is not stable or overheats, the workflow is still a work in progress I'll pass on it in a heartbeat.

No more beta testing is my rule as I have work to do.  We all have work to do.

I respectfully ask these questions.

BC
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David Grover / Capture One

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H4D-40: Sample files
« Reply #104 on: March 31, 2010, 02:24:50 pm »

Quote from: bcooter
I find nothing wrong with them selling to hobbyists, in fact if they sell a lot to this market it should help lower the cost to professionals.

I actually don't take exception to those promo videos because it's just another way for a photographer and a camera maker to advertise themselves.  

What I think, and obviously this is just my opinion, is to sell me any expensive camera I need more assurances about the complete package.

Sure, before I write the final check I'll test it myself, in my own real life style and workflow, but before I waste any time on any of these systems anymore, I'd like to know a few basics that are never addressed in any of these videos.

1.  Does the software start fast, either tethered or non tethered.

2.  When tethering...

These are actually similar questions you asked on a similar thread sometime ago.

I responded, but as far as I can remember, you did not comment further, thus I assume I had provided pleasing answers.

I am happy to repeat the process again, if you are.

David

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John R Smith

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« Reply #105 on: March 31, 2010, 02:57:07 pm »

Actually, well-heeled dentists and doctors were always a large part of Hasselblad's customer base in the old days of the 500 series. And that's where you can find the pick of the vintage stuff, now.

John
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fredjeang

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H4D-40: Sample files
« Reply #106 on: March 31, 2010, 03:14:15 pm »

Quote from: bcooter
And now my final question and I'm very serious about this.

If I decide to by an hd40 or whatever it's called, and sell off my 4 contax's and 2 phase backs, a p31+ and a p21+ WILL I SEE A DIFFERENCE IN THE FINAL FILE?  Not a pixel peeping put a loupe on a 30" monitor difference but are the skin tones better, the color response prettier and not so Phase blotchy exact?

In other words will it make prettier, more reliable photos?  

Any one of those 8 questions that come in as a negative can cost me six figures very quickly or make me put the camera in a bag and pick up the Canons.  I'm not going that route anymore where $50,000 worth of cameras set on the shelf while I shoot with cameras costing 1/3 of that.

I know I can and might test it myself, but before I even go to the point of this I'd like those questions answered either in video on just in writing.

My day's of free beta testing are 100% over.  I don't need a 30% off deal on a new camera, what I need/want/desire is a prettier photograph with less workflow not more.

Right now we're in the process of testing a RED.   I think the 5d2 for video is a little mushy,  a little soft and has a lot of workarounds, though for the price it's an amazing camera.

The thing is when testing the RED if I even think for one moment that their software crashes my computer, the camera is not stable or overheats, the workflow is still a work in progress I'll pass on it in a heartbeat.

No more beta testing is my rule as I have work to do.  We all have work to do.

I respectfully ask these questions.

BC
BC,
Honestly, thinking in pure workflow-hassle-free, the gear that come to my mind is the MarkIII or whatever CaNikon will produce in the next years.

I'm not sure in terms of ergonomics, you'll find something much better than the Contax.

Now, for the backs, I do not think you'll notice a great difference from your P21-31, but upgrading you'll have more room in PP, and better studio's workflow.
Will that gain be really significant that would justify the expense? That is a concern.
In 2010, I don't see the point any more to use MF if you do not need at least 40MP, and ready to deal with all the digital chain involved at the highest power available.
You know that if one element of the chain is not at the top, this means loosing performance.

If this situation keeps going, I won't be surprised to see more and more MF users going 35mm, because you'll soon need a personal nuclear central in order to power these gears, the studio and extracts the maximum output. Or MFD cut their prices soon, or I'm afraid they'll face some serious problems.

If your daily work is similar to a formula 1 race, with chronometer to check how fast is the workflow and 10 cofees per day to maintain pressure: 35mm is probably a better experience. IMO.

Regards,

Fred.








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Nick-T

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H4D-40: Sample files
« Reply #107 on: March 31, 2010, 03:44:01 pm »

Quote from: bcooter
Sure, before I write the final check I'll test it myself, in my own real life style and workflow, but before I waste any time on any of these systems anymore, I'd like to know a few basics that are never addressed in any of these videos.

O.K I'll have a go at answering these with respect to Hasselblad and Phocus.

Quote
1.  Does the software start fast, either tethered or non tethered.
Takes 10 seconds or so to open and read the thumbs with 200 images in a folder. Would take longer with more images to read. Same boot speed wether camera connected or no.

Quote
2.  When tethering is the software stable, can you shoot more than 100 images to a folder without crashing?

Yes.
 I guess the max I've ever shot to one folder in a day is about 600.
Quote
3. When the cord disconnects (all cords eventually get stepped on or disconnect) how long does it take to restart the process, does it require a complete computer restart, or does it just connect when you plug it back in?
It just connects. Only time it will take longer is if it gets yanked when images are being downloaded. This might need a software restart, very rarely a hardware restart.
Quote
4.  What is the total costs, not just a cost of a camera and lens, but the real costs.  Does it require a huge tower and graphics card to work fast, how large are the raw files, are lenses (with the correct firmware) available for sale in every major market.
I'm sure MR williams can give you costs. I shoot mostly to a tower but happily to a laptop, I'd have to shoot a video to show you.. All lenses in rental will have current firmware (it doesn't get updated that often)

Quote
5.  What's the deal with this two raw file format thing?  If I shoot non tethered, for any reason, do I absolutely have to ingest the files in focus to make a fff file?  Do I have to save the 3fr files for safety's sake, is there any instances of file corruption from the conversion of 3fr to fff and if so is there any software for recovery?
yes this is a cause of much (deserved) confusion. You don't have to keep the raw file. I've never come across an issue with conversion to FFF. It's not an onerous process, pretty much the same process as importing some Canon files into lightroom or aperture or whatever.
Quote
6.  What about pattern moire, cause that's a deal killer in non aa filtered cameras.  Some things can be fixed easily some can take a thousand dollars in retouching.
I get less pattern moire now than I used to with a 22MP. When I do get it the Phocus Moire tool does an amazing job. At higher levels (and as DICK demonstrated expertly) you can get artifacts. In that case you turn the filter on and choose to export a PSD, Phocus will automatically create a layered file with and without the filter so you can mask out the artifacts.
I've been dealing with moires for 10 years (6MP product) and can honestly say that the Phocus moire filter is the best EVER solution, kudos to them.
Quote
7.  How completely stable is the whole process, working under pressure with a room full of demanding, tapping their toes clients?
Well for me very stable and the users I polled on the subject agreed.
Quote
8.  What does the image on the lcd look like.  Does it compare to a Canon, a Nikon can I see enough subtleties in light and tone to make decisions, or is it just a rough reference of the image?  Does it work in bright sunlight?
On my 31? It sucks. The LCD on the 60 compares to my iphone though I couldn't take it outside as that was in R&D.
Quote
And now my final question and I'm very serious about this.

If I decide to by an hd40 or whatever it's called, and sell off my 4 contax's and 2 phase backs, a p31+ and a p21+ WILL I SEE A DIFFERENCE IN THE FINAL FILE?  Not a pixel peeping put a loupe on a 30" monitor difference but are the skin tones better, the color response prettier and not so Phase blotchy exact?

In other words will it make prettier, more reliable photos?
I think only you can answer this with a test.
Phew.
Nick-T
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BJNY

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H4D-40: Sample files
« Reply #108 on: March 31, 2010, 03:57:23 pm »

Quote from: bcooter
3. When the cord disconnects (all cords eventually get stepped on or disconnect) how long does it take to restart the process, does it require a complete computer restart, or does it just connect when you plug it back in?
BC

Quote from: Nick-T
It just connects. Only time it will take longer is if it gets yanked when images are being downloaded. This might need a software restart, very rarely a hardware restart.
Nick-T

Nick,
Let's say the firewire cable gets disconnected in the middle of a non-stop burst of frames being captured....
...what happens to the half dozen or so frames still in the back's buffer queue when the cable is re-connected?
Do they not miss a beat and stream in, or are they lost?
Billy
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Guillermo

Nick-T

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« Reply #109 on: March 31, 2010, 04:04:50 pm »

Quote from: BJNY
Nick,
Let's say the firewire cable gets disconnected in the middle of a non-stop burst of frames being captured....
...what happens to the half dozen or so frames still in the back's buffer queue when the cable is re-connected?
Do they not miss a beat and stream in, or are they lost?
Billy
Billy good question! Truth is I don't know I've never had it happen to me. I don't actually know how many images get held in the buffer.. I did a quick test the other day burst of 70 something images and the red light on the back stopped flashing after about 2 secs of the last image being shot so I guess there were only one or two images on the camera...

To try to answer your question my guess would be that you would lose whatever images were buffered but I'd have to test.
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Dick Roadnight

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« Reply #110 on: March 31, 2010, 04:05:40 pm »

Quote from: bcooter
If I decide to by an hd40 or whatever it's called, and sell off my 4 contax's and 2 phase backs, a p31+ and a p21+ WILL I SEE A DIFFERENCE IN THE FINAL FILE?  Not a pixel peeping put a loupe on a 30" monitor difference but are the skin tones better, the color response prettier and not so Phase blotchy exact?

BC
If you always shoot in the studio, and you do not need to make many post adjustments, and you do not need truefocus... maybe not, but if you do much outdoor work Phocus will make the difference, even if the camera does not.

They are working on the "Phase blotchy" 60 chip.
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Dustbak

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H4D-40: Sample files
« Reply #111 on: March 31, 2010, 04:28:24 pm »

Quote from: BJNY
Nick,
Let's say the firewire cable gets disconnected in the middle of a non-stop burst of frames being captured....
...what happens to the half dozen or so frames still in the back's buffer queue when the cable is re-connected?
Do they not miss a beat and stream in, or are they lost?
Billy


I have had that happen to me several times. I tend to step on my cable quite regularly. Basically you are screwed, most of the times Phocus will hang at that moment as well and you have to restart the program. The images are lost. I cannot recall a time that the images did come through after reconnecting but than again you tend to only remember the bad stuff don't you?  
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Nick-T

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« Reply #112 on: March 31, 2010, 04:28:55 pm »

Quote from: Dick Roadnight
If you always shoot in the studio, and you do not need to make many post adjustments, and you do not need truefocus... maybe not, but if you do much outdoor work Phocus will make the difference, even if the camera does not.

I believe that if I study hard and continue to learn about photography I will one day be able to understand what Dick just said.
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Dick Roadnight

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« Reply #113 on: March 31, 2010, 04:35:48 pm »

For work flow defaults, I think a checklist works better than a video...

and the (default) adjustments menu (in Phocus and Photoshop) serves a a check list with what you need to do in order from top to bottom.

... but pros do not just use the default settings - like I used the standard daylight WB setting for my pictures posted here, when adjusting to 6000K to get rid of the blue cast made so much difference. (and I am one of the few people that used mired filters for blue casts on film).
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Dustbak

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« Reply #114 on: March 31, 2010, 04:47:04 pm »

BTW. I do step on the cable pretty often. In most cases I curse when the cable gets yanked out. Put it back in wait for the back to reconnect (within seconds) and continue. Rarely it is in the middle of a burst, you should not make a habit out of yanking out the cable.

To give an example of the reliability. I just got home after 3 days of shooting. I shot 2500single shots and over 400 multishots (which are also 2000shots) over 3 days without one single failure (besides problems of software startup but that had other reasons). At the end of each day I closed the laptop, put out the lights and went home. Next day, open up the laptop, lights on and continue..

Yes there have been days it did not go so well
« Last Edit: March 31, 2010, 04:48:57 pm by Dustbak »
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Dick Roadnight

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« Reply #115 on: March 31, 2010, 04:50:14 pm »

If you always shoot in the studio, and you do not need to make many post adjustments, and you do not need truefocus... maybe not, but if you do much outdoor work Phocus will make the difference, even if the camera does not.

Quote from: Nick-T
I believe that if I study hard and continue to learn about photography I will one day be able to understand what Dick just said.
Hi, Nick.

Sorry if I confused you.

In the studio (or in studio-like controlled conditions outside, with flash-fill, reflectors, etc.) it should be easy to "get it right in camera", with any camera, even with the reduced DR of transparencies, without much or any post adjustment.

If you are doing outdoor stuff in a semi-journalistic mode, or you are doing landscapes or townscapes (and you do not have full control over the lighting) then you are more likely to benefit from the extended DR that Phocus 2.1 gives (with raw fill and recovery), and phocus features like the clarity slider.
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tho_mas

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« Reply #116 on: March 31, 2010, 05:16:10 pm »

There is virtually no software that is working 100% trouble-free.
Consequently every workflow that involves the use of software is per se not trouble-free.
Asking for a 100% stable software misses the point… the trick is to know the bugs and the scenarios when it crashes and to work around.

Many of you love to produce video these days. What about the stability of Avid? E.g. when working in projects with different formats. Or - as an comparable example to the disconnected digiback - when you cut the connection from the computer to the Avid hardware. Now, this reboot can take 15 to 45 minutes!
What about Final Cut Pro? What about Quantel? … … …
Man, compared to those softwares - daily used for professional production worldwide - a software like Capture One is 300% stable. Absolutely super rock solid. I assume it's the same with Phocus.

IMO...
« Last Edit: March 31, 2010, 05:16:34 pm by tho_mas »
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John.Williams

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« Reply #117 on: April 01, 2010, 11:59:45 pm »

This is most likely OTP, but I think still applicable to the H4D-40 and perhaps useful for Phocus users out there...

The "recipe" for developing RAW files is stored inside the Hasselblad 3F file (which is a TIFF/EP v.6, but more on that later...) and this makes the transfer of images from one directory or external drive a snap, no worries about directory structure to maintain edits, etc.

A recent client wanted to have Phocus loaded on both laptop (on location) and also on the retouch desktop station; but not just the application - the same tool-sets, import naming sequence,  output naming sequence, and the same workpspace window arrangement. In other words, the same setup on both machines, no fumbling, all the same, just get on with it...

These two Phocus settings are stored in:
(tool-sets) ~/Library/Application Support/Phocus (including subfolders)
(naming-sequences for tethered shooting and import from CF card, layout) ~/Library/Preferences/dk.hasselblad.phocus.plist (file)

So he copied these files from one computer to the other and has identical workflows on two machines to make it easy for quick field edits and selects back in the shop.

It was a simple, fast way to get productive and wanted to share. On the youtube list that is growing like Saturday chores...

John
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ziocan

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« Reply #118 on: April 02, 2010, 06:29:44 am »

Quote from: BJNY
Nick,
Let's say the firewire cable gets disconnected in the middle of a non-stop burst of frames being captured....
...what happens to the half dozen or so frames still in the back's buffer queue when the cable is re-connected?
Do they not miss a beat and stream in, or are they lost?
Billy
It depends on the camera.
On some, if you a CF card loaded while you shoot tethered, if the cable disconnects or lose connection for some reason, they write to the card directly.
but it does not work 100% of the times.
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Dick Roadnight

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H4D-40: Sample files
« Reply #119 on: April 02, 2010, 09:02:54 am »

Quote from: bcooter
3. When the cord disconnects (all cords eventually get stepped on or disconnect) how long does it take to restart the process, does it require a complete computer restart, or does it just connect when you plug it back in?

BC
Hasselblads have a very deep firewire socket... and I think this protects the socket connections, so that if the wire gets pulled out accidentally, it does not permanently wreck the digiback socket.
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