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Author Topic: H4D-40: Sample files  (Read 45092 times)

Nick-T

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H4D-40: Sample files
« Reply #40 on: March 28, 2010, 02:27:40 pm »

I think this is a great thread. What Hasselblad should really do is create some Youtube videos (I think Cooter or Gwhtf suggested it) shot in one take showing the whole shoot process all in real time. I'm happy with the performance of my MBP with a 31 MP product but I don't think I shoot at the pace of Cooter and others.

Nick-T
« Last Edit: March 28, 2010, 02:28:40 pm by Nick-T »
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gwhitf

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« Reply #41 on: March 28, 2010, 02:38:43 pm »

Quote from: Nick-T
I think this is a great thread. What Hasselblad should really do is create some Youtube videos (I think Cooter or Gwhtf suggested it) shot in one take showing the whole shoot process all in real time. I'm happy with the performance of my MBP with a 31 MP product but I don't think I shoot at the pace of Cooter and others.

I agree, it would be helpful. But please tell them not to do it in the style of that other video on their site, where they talk about "ultimate image quality" and all that other sales talk. It is just complete bullshit, and anybody that's about to drop twenty or thirty grand does not want to hear some hypey bullshit sales talk.

Talk to them like photographers; not like you're trying to sell them a car or something. It's insulting, and it's just so completely transparent and fake. Talk to people like you're in a photo studio; not like you're in a flourescent lit office building, listening to a PowerPoint lecture.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2010, 02:40:24 pm by gwhitf »
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bcooter

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H4D-40: Sample files
« Reply #42 on: March 28, 2010, 02:50:59 pm »

Quote from: gwhitf
Talk to people like you're in a photo studio; not like you're in a flourescent lit office building, listening to a PowerPoint lecture.


Nick,

IMO, I'm with Gwitifh (I still can't spell that name).

What Blad or anyone needs to do when they show workflow is to show a pretty photograph.

No offensive to Michael for posting those blad images, cause it was kind of him to put em up, but whoa . . . the look of the set, the lighting everything is so challenged it makes you hurt.

A few years ago we were casting in Miami and in another studio were some US Leaf reps shooting a demo.  They made the model look like a burn victim and then were printing huge images out and sticking them all over the wall.  She asked my assistants if they could help the Leaf guys out to try to not make her look so awful.

That won't sell anything.

A while after that I suggested to  the Phase people that they should set up a demonstration in a real studio, give everyone a cf card with a phase logo and put up two sets with real models, real stylists and real lighting options and crew and let potential customers shoot something pretty . . . something that makes em' smile.

They passed on that idea, instead they we're much happier to loan a camera to a friend of mine who was a celebrity, but still I think it's a good idea to allow a photographer to shoot something pretty in a demonstration, not just let them look at pixels.

Let's be really honest.  You don't need a blad to make money.  A 5d2 covers that easily.   Making money in photography isn't about the camera, but if you feel you shoot better with a blad for your own soul, or shoot something prettier than you normally would, that'll sell it.

Hasselblad, Leica, those are photographic names that resonate with greatness, so make sure that nothing coming out of those cameras is not great.


BC
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MichaelEzra

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H4D-40: Sample files
« Reply #43 on: March 28, 2010, 03:25:12 pm »

James, non taken:)

These JPGs certainly have specific level of ugliness on a few levels:) I was surprised to see the set.

This test was intended to be for True Focus feature, I was curious how it would behave when camera is panned horizontally (A1214409_H4D-40_ISO100_100mm.JPG) and when almost no compensation is necessary (A1214412_H4D-40_ISO100_100mm); It was not interesting to me to test any other aspects of HD40 as I expected it to be sort of on par with everything else similar.

I grabbed a couple of 24x36 sample prints from hd40 captures there. Truly, it was not impressive at all. A full body shot was also soft, though that one was not filling the entire frame.
Images themselves were just as inspiring.

All this can certainly be flipped and one can make breathtaking images with this camera, HB lenses and 16bit 40MP give lots of room to play if anyone is game.
But, I am not selling Hd40:) nor buying one at this time...
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robert zimmerman

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« Reply #44 on: March 28, 2010, 03:39:27 pm »

Quote from: gwhitf
My feeling is, someone is going to find The Sweet Spot in this marketplace, and they're going to make a ton of money.

i was thinking along these lines last week when i was decieving myself (again) about why and how i could go forward with hasselblad.

thinking to self: you know they'll get there kipling, writing on the wall and all that stuff... just trade into the h4d thing, buy the newest macbook, torture yourself another year or so, and see it as the bridge to the h5d mk II that they are surely working night and day on. so many photographers would give a thumb to shoot with the hc 100mm on a scaled down h with 30mp, that huge viewfinder, good iso and live view. there gonna do it!

then i called my rep all excited by my hasseblad business plan and he said: oh sorry, there's no trade up for the h4d40, you'll have to sell your h3d on your own and buy at full price...
I have no idea who thinks this stuff up, maybe it's really good business sense, i don’t know, but it really cleared my head for a second, and i realized that none of these companies are thinking about my business or my profession. i don't even think canon intentionally moved in a direction that was intended to change any certain line of photography. it's all just a bunch of tech that's crammed into a black (or brown grey) box and presented as the next shabam for silly named target groups. call it something jazzy an see what happens.

canon hit the jackpot, but i'd bet a million there was a board meeting and the president of retail technology and marketing hype said hd-video will be great for our nest eggers and best agers with children and grand children!
and he was probably right, but no way in hell did he say: now we will revolutionize web based commercial photography!

i think that's why they avoid something like james idea like the pest. it would be catered to the wrong audience. you might alienate the real target group, the group that the marketing guy made up to save his ass until the numbers come out in the 3rd quarter. or the group that likes big, bigger, biggest or marketing jive like true focus and real full frame...
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pixjohn

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« Reply #45 on: March 28, 2010, 05:11:53 pm »

I have to agree with James about manufactures setting up and showing hi quality images. Its sad to see some sad looking images, it turns me off. I can shoot that image with my nikon D700, why do I need to spend $28,000 on an H4-50.

Unfortunately for my need a fashion shoot  would not work, I need to see how the H4-50 works for architectural photography on a Cambo Wide DS.  I am personally spending a few bucks and running my own full location architectural test shoot, with H4-50, H4-40 and P45+. My work flow just works better with a digital back.
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David Grover / Capture One

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« Reply #46 on: March 29, 2010, 07:32:37 am »

Quote from: bcooter
A while after that I suggested to  the Phase people that they should set up a demonstration in a real studio, give everyone a cf card with a phase logo and put up two sets with real models, real stylists and real lighting options and crew and let potential customers shoot something pretty . . . something that makes em' smile.

Actually something that Hasselblad UK did all through 2009.

As for model sets / models / lighting, whatever we do... somebody won't like it.  ')

Here is my take on the image that is in focus.....

http://drop.io/xdweau4#

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David Grover
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arashm

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« Reply #47 on: March 29, 2010, 09:11:35 am »

David
would you mind posting a screen shot of your corrections in phocus?

Also in general I wanted to add that I don't have much problem shooting fast tethered to a MacBook Pro, I don't run any other apps and when there is down time I always restart the machine...
am
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David Grover / Capture One

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« Reply #48 on: March 29, 2010, 10:46:30 am »

Here you go...


[attachment=21133:Screen_s...15.43.22.png]

There is also +10 on Vibrancy, not shown here.

D

PS.  You could argue my -0.04 EV correction is not doing very much!
« Last Edit: March 29, 2010, 10:49:04 am by David Grover / Hasselblad »
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David Grover
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bcooter

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H4D-40: Sample files
« Reply #49 on: March 29, 2010, 12:22:52 pm »

Quote from: David Grover / Hasselblad
As for model sets / models / lighting, whatever we do... somebody won't like it.  ')

Dave,

Whatever, but  . . .

Man if your selling to good photographers, show good pictures.

But your image is not really a matter of taste, it's just a matter of execution which gives you a less than desirable final image, especially since you know everyone is going to be zooming in on parts and pieces to check detail.

It's also not a matter of fashion, portrait or any genre, because I don't know where this image falls.  It's certainly not fashion, or portrait, it's just a photograph.

All of us are only as good as what we have in front of the lens.  Even something well presented and simple carries more weight than something over thought.

You can sell and market your cameras anyway you like, that's your business, but in my mind if I was selling a high megapixel, leaf shutter lens camera, I would do something that would show the benefits of both, i.e. freeze fast moving subjects and show the ability to crop a full length vertical from a horizontal.  (we do this all the time, now that 1/2 of all still imagery is shot on white).

I have to admit it kind of surprises me to see this type of imagery when there are so many set builders, background painters, models and crew that are looking for work.  You could easily pull together a good assembly of talent and keep it on budget, because in today's market "budget" seems to be the phrase.

If your gonna do backdrops, work at this level . . . IMO

http://www.deborahfreedman.com/

BC
« Last Edit: March 29, 2010, 12:43:21 pm by bcooter »
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Dick Roadnight

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« Reply #50 on: March 29, 2010, 12:43:52 pm »

Quote from: David Grover / Hasselblad
Actually something that Hasselblad UK did all through 2009.

As for model sets / models / lighting, whatever we do... somebody won't like it.  ')

Here is my take on the image that is in focus.....
I attended one  of these (for the H40) in London February 2010 (and MD 'blad UK was there) and one for the H3D11-50 last year before I bought mine.

I see you used f/16... I was shooting ambient last week @ 200 iso 1/120th f/6ish and had no where near enough DOF.

Do you all use f/16 for close-up heads, or accept that half of it is OOF?

To use f/12 ambient (overcast) I would have had to crank it up to 800iso... would that have been the best option?

Do the H4s perform better @ 800 iso than the H3s?

I found, at the pixel/hair's-breadth level, there was camera shake  at 1/90th 110mm.

f/16 looks OK... is diffraction a myth?
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John.Williams

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« Reply #51 on: March 29, 2010, 12:45:37 pm »

Youtube video request acknowledged.

gwhitf, will cover those points you mentioned, anything else?

If you are experiencing sluggish performance with Phocus, something is not right, time to check the computer for adequate space and the host of regular maintenance items. I prefer to use the dual core iMac with 27" screen and 512MB VRAM display card as Phocus makes use of OpenGL to process the graphics display (GPU) as recommended by Apple, leaving CPU cycles for other tasks (meaning you can export hundreds of previews while burning a DVD, et al...)

However, money does not grow on trees and I regularly use my three-year old MacBook Pro 15" with 2GB RAM and a 256MB VRAM video card to shoot tethered in the field on location. Do I have the same zippy performance as the mac-daddy iMac, hell no, but I also don't need a cart and electricity so it works for me. Plus, the demands of the shoot determine what you need to bring, and if zippy is in order, well you know what to bring, right? Can't complain if you bring a knife to a gun fight, though...

Working photographers open RAW files, set color temp (white/grey balance), push saturation, modify exposure, courtesy sharpen and export. Done. Doesn't matter if it's Lightroom, C1, Aperture, CRAW. Same as it ever was. So learning Phocus is like learning to drive the rental car, get in adjust the seat, find the wipers/light switch and drive.

The rest is human opinion and preference.

Something to make you laugh at the seriousness of the debate (teddy bears not included) : http://www.youtube.com/user/HotwireDigital#p/f/4/80K2fvIl-dY

John
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Dick Roadnight

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H4D-40: Sample files
« Reply #52 on: March 29, 2010, 12:52:16 pm »

Quote from: bcooter
Dave,
You can sell and market your cameras anyway you like, that's your business, but in my mind if I was selling a high megapixel, leaf shutter lens camera, I would do something that would show the benefits of both, i.e. freeze fast moving subjects and show the ability to crop a full length vertical from a horizontal.  (we do this all the time, now that 1/2 of all still imagery is shot on white).
BC
I took some two, three and four people horiz last week (politicians so open-season) good enough to take a head from (with H3D11-50) shall I post one?

One of the benefits of high MPx is that you do not need to frame close for moving subjects, but I am planning to use shutter-beams.
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arashm

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« Reply #53 on: March 29, 2010, 01:06:00 pm »

Quote from: John.Williams
Something to make you laugh at the seriousness of the debate (teddy bears not included) : http://www.youtube.com/user/HotwireDigital#p/f/4/80K2fvIl-dY

John


LOL
funny video
So how did a ten year old afford the Hassy?
For the most part I agree with you, I use C1, phocus and LR on regular bases, they are all means to the end result.
am
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Dick Roadnight

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« Reply #54 on: March 29, 2010, 01:29:59 pm »

Quote from: arashm
LOL
funny video
So how did a ten year old afford the Hassy?
For the most part I agree with you, I use C1, phocus and LR on regular bases, they are all means to the end result.
am
...her Dad (sorry parent) obviously works for Hasselblad, as the camera seems disposable...

When my 9 year old niece used my ELD, I taught her to use the strap first, and she would not have left the camera on the lawn. She got a good picture of her father, who is difficult to photograph. (now she is 17, and says she would like to do some Photoshop work for me)

I use a teddy-bear, but mine did not come ready-stuffed, and I have to get inside it!

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gwhitf

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H4D-40: Sample files
« Reply #55 on: March 29, 2010, 02:27:25 pm »

Quote from: John.Williams
Something to make you laugh at the seriousness of the debate (teddy bears not included) : http://www.youtube.com/user/HotwireDigital#p/f/4/80K2fvIl-dY

Wow. Impressive.
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fredjeang

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H4D-40: Sample files
« Reply #56 on: March 29, 2010, 02:32:31 pm »

Quote from: bcooter
Dave,

Whatever, but  . . .

Man if your selling to good photographers, show good pictures.

But your image is not really a matter of taste, it's just a matter of execution which gives you a less than desirable final image, especially since you know everyone is going to be zooming in on parts and pieces to check detail.

It's also not a matter of fashion, portrait or any genre, because I don't know where this image falls.  It's certainly not fashion, or portrait, it's just a photograph.

All of us are only as good as what we have in front of the lens.  Even something well presented and simple carries more weight than something over thought.

You can sell and market your cameras anyway you like, that's your business, but in my mind if I was selling a high megapixel, leaf shutter lens camera, I would do something that would show the benefits of both, i.e. freeze fast moving subjects and show the ability to crop a full length vertical from a horizontal.  (we do this all the time, now that 1/2 of all still imagery is shot on white).

I have to admit it kind of surprises me to see this type of imagery when there are so many set builders, background painters, models and crew that are looking for work.  You could easily pull together a good assembly of talent and keep it on budget, because in today's market "budget" seems to be the phrase.

If your gonna do backdrops, work at this level . . . IMO

http://www.deborahfreedman.com/

BC
BC,
Again complaining about the quality of the images posted.  

Ok, I got your wised point about "good image". We all know what a pro work is right?
But when I want to be informed about a gear, the last thing I want to see is precisely the kind of pics that you've posted
in order to correct the Heresy.
These are fine for a "look at my last pro work" topic. Not to be informed.
I do not want to be distracted by a "pro" session and all the post-prod stuff behind.
I much prefer a flat, boring and unpersonal pic like the ones posted. That's what I want to see when talking about evaluating
a camera. Do not need any master piece because Hasselblad or Leica. David is not pretending being HCB.
Last time he posted the 800 iso I liked it because it was a great sample to see something in the worsed conditions.
You are (and most the people here) experienced enough to know perfectly what you would have been capable to do, no?
So what's the point asking being more pro each time someone is posting pictures? The pro is you, that I know.
Take your responsabilities and kindly provide to us the 100% Pro pictures you ask to people that did not pretend posting
a final art.
With all my respect.

Fred.
 









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gwhitf

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« Reply #57 on: March 29, 2010, 02:47:58 pm »

Quote from: fredjeang
BC,
Again complaining about the quality of the images posted.

I'm not answering for BC; actually, OK, I will. It's about always keep a good face forward. It's about showing your best work. All that work that went into designing that TrueFocus contraption, and all the work to get ASA 800 looking great, and one of the first pictures you see from it is some Trade Show model, with bad makeup, and the frames out of focus. It's not Michael's fault, it's the fault of Hasselblad for allowing CF cards to be inserted in those demo cameras. Remember that other story of another company that glued shut the CF door, during the trade show? Now that was smart.

That would be similar to you, going out and shooting a job, but you shoot on JPG LOW, and you don't bother to tweak the file once you get home, nor retouch it -- you just stick it up on the Splash Page of your site, hereby saying to the world, "This is my best work".

I think there was a time, when you could go to University of Arizona, and you could go into the darkroom and print from original Ansel Adams negatives. I'm not saying you'd put it in your book, but let's face it, it would be pretty bad-ass to print a neg of Halfdome. It's always been weird to me that these MF companies spend zillions designing these cameras, then they never hire a competent photographer to shoot RAW files for them, and then make them available for download, to learn the software. I'm not talking retouching fakery here, to make the camera look better -- i'm talking about uploading the RAW files, and let people download them, to see THE TRUTH about what the camera really renders, in real life. But they were files that were lit well, and composed well, with decent talent. There's not a person I know that wouldn't want to download a RAW file from Demarchelier or Michael Thompson or Misrach or whomever, just out of curiosity, but also to really work the software hard.

Signed,

Not BC
« Last Edit: March 29, 2010, 02:49:37 pm by gwhitf »
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fredjeang

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H4D-40: Sample files
« Reply #58 on: March 29, 2010, 03:10:20 pm »

Quote from: gwhitf
I'm not answering for BC; actually, OK, I will. It's about always keep a good face forward. It's about showing your best work. All that work that went into designing that TrueFocus contraption, and all the work to get ASA 800 looking great, and one of the first pictures you see from it is some Trade Show model, with bad makeup, and the frames out of focus. It's not Michael's fault, it's the fault of Hasselblad for allowing CF cards to be inserted in those demo cameras. Remember that other story of another company that glued shut the CF door, during the trade show? Now that was smart.

That would be similar to you, going out and shooting a job, but you shoot on JPG LOW, and you don't bother to tweak the file once you get home, nor retouch it -- you just stick it up on the Splash Page of your site, hereby saying to the world, "This is my best work".

I think there was a time, when you could go to University of Arizona, and you could go into the darkroom and print from original Ansel Adams negatives. I'm not saying you'd put it in your book, but let's face it, it would be pretty bad-ass to print a neg of Halfdome. It's always been weird to me that these MF companies spend zillions designing these cameras, then they never hire a competent photographer to shoot RAW files for them, and then make them available for download, to learn the software. I'm not talking retouching fakery here, to make the camera look better -- i'm talking about uploading the RAW files, and let people download them, to see THE TRUTH about what the camera really renders, in real life. But they were files that were lit well, and composed well, with decent talent. There's not a person I know that wouldn't want to download a RAW file from Demarchelier or Michael Thompson or Misrach or whomever, just out of curiosity, but also to really work the software hard.

Signed,

Not BC
Gwhitf,
I totally agree with your points, so as I agreed with what BC was saying, BUT, if you are right to point a minimum of decence, I think a flat pic with no post prod is a better way in these cases to provide enough information.

You won't tell me that looking and examinating some boring flat Raw pics, you are not capable of anticipating the kind of quality that can be acheived when used properly and post-produced accurately.
If a poster would send you a remarkable pro RAW file, as BC suggested, then you'll have to complain because of the post-prod involved behind, or the lights settings in this particualar shot or whatever.
I've been a designer and work with and for pro photographer for enough years to know how they can sometimes be   with that.

I have nothing against BC, I respect their work, but I'd like to see the comments of this forum if he posted the "best works" he is asking to the others in order to  provide info about a gear. Imediatly, you'll have people jump on that because of artistic choices, lights, post prod, etc etc...
To me, more it is neutral, better it is.

Leica, Hasselblad etc...have already their army of masters that provide for them and for us, the high quality pics they diserve. If I want to see what you say, I go to the "show me your last pro work" topic or to the brand website. But that was not the case here, and that was my point.

Regards,

Fred.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2010, 03:12:14 pm by fredjeang »
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robert zimmerman

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« Reply #59 on: March 29, 2010, 03:18:12 pm »

Quote from: fredjeang
But when I want to be informed about a gear, the last thing I want to see is precisely the kind of pics that you've posted...
These are fine for a "look at my last pro work" topic. Not to be informed.
I do not want to be distracted by a "pro" session and all the post-prod stuff behind.

really? i'd pay james cash to watch a session of what he does.

i could care less about looking a true focused eyelashes, i want to see top dog jumping through flaming hoops.

true pressure, true sets, true workflow, true lighting, true stills and motion, true directing, true work.

what is false focus anyway..?
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